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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:21 am 
Trapped On A Desert Island With A Cow
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Please do not insult me for my beliefs. I only stated what I know.
Just because you believe something different from me, does not mean that I am not intelligent or am misinformed. Please reserve your judgements for someone else. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:41 am 
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who was insulting you? i didn't know if you were serious, since it's been hashed to death a hundred times in this thread already that homeopathy (specifically homeopathic vaccines) are not comparable to real vaccines. and that it's a provable fact homeopathic remedies are water. if you believe (i'm assuming you mean "faith", as in religious or spiritual) that homeopathic remedies will protect your children from serious disease, you need to be upfront that that's what you mean.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:49 am 
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What? I don't need to do anything. I am allowed to state something without getting insulted and offended. And if I say that I feel that way, who can tell me that I don't feel this way. I feel what you wrote was quite rude. THIS is why I stopped posting on these boards. Who said my beliefs have anything to do with spirituality or religion? Someone asked about something that is vegan. I gave an answer that I know. Please I am done now. Is that ok with you?


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:12 am 
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mamatafari wrote:
Viktoralia wrote:
Awesome responses, my first thought was to check if there is an alternative vegan vaccination but it seems like there isnt and I also thought that vaccinating would be the best thing to do even if its not totally vegan. But I will defenitely talk to them and say that there is a need for vegan parents and children to have an option about a different type of vegan vaccine.


There are homeopathic options that are vegan..


But they're a useless scam and you are wasting your money and your time and potentially putting your health at risk.

Homeopathy is belief-based and is not medicine.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:13 am 
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Imogen wrote:
Even the British Homeopathic Association admits that they don't work:

http://www.britishhomeopathic.org/faqs.html#vaccination wrote:
There is no evidence to show that homeopathic medicines can be used instead of vaccination. The Faculty of Homeopathy recommends that immunisation is carried out in the usual way, unless there are strong medical contraindications.


Wow, and they're pretty awful in almost every other way. They must have been legally forced to admit this, and I bet there were many clenched jaws as they typed it out.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:02 pm 
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So, I had my whooping cough jab and I feel fine and the baby is still moving like a mo-fo. I'm just throwing that out there because it seemed like every comment regarding the whooping cough vaccine during pregnancy that I read about on-line other than here on the PPK had the line, "I started cramping and bleeding."

Totally OT, but I took my kids with me and afterward, since the bus wasn't coming for nearly an hour (we'd just missed it), we went to the pub for a coffee (the kids had soda water with a straw and ice and you'd think it was the best cocktail ever) and the kids had a blast charming the lady-bartender (there was no one else at the pub) and on the bus ride home, Raygold said, "we gonna go back to the hotel and watch TV!" and, "I want a snicky-snack, I know you have some in your bag!" (I always do.) I love that going out for nearly 2 hours to somewhere that is not the grocery store = "we're on vacation" to Raygold.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:18 pm 
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I missed the drama until now. Let's put homeopathic stuff in a separate thread from here on out, please.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:47 pm 
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Florida: Parents choose not to vaccinate. Baby dies of whooping cough.
http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/bab ... -co/nXXqP/

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:07 pm 
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Can I just vent and say that I hate this whole decision? We have chosen to use an alternate schedule for Freya's vaccinations because the one "anti-vax" issue we could find was that giving multiple vaccinations at one time increases the risk of side effects (not autism and the like, but some serious ones like seizures, etc.) She's done fine with most of the jabs (some mild fever with the first one), but the Hib/MenC has given her a high fever (over 40c) and some tummy troubles.

Then, she gets the 3rd dose of the DTaP and her entire thigh and most of her butt cheek swells and is hard and just awful...doc says that it is indeed just a reaction, that it's not infected (and this turns out to be correct), but this reaction is not listed at all on the info sheet (for this vaccine).

Now, we're on the next to last vax, the MMR, and 4 days after, she spikes a fever and has a blotchy pale rash. It's absolutely nothing at all like the measles rash, but of course, this is a reaction to the vaccine which again we have not been forewarned about (also it's very early for a reaction) She's sleeping fitfully after an afternoon of tears and just ugh.

OI. I'm not sure I can take doing the last one (third dose of the Hib/MenC).


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:49 pm 
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The reactions do stink. They stink way less than the actual disease, but are stinky nonetheless. I will just warn you now that prevnar (the one for pneumococcal viruses) caused a huge welt at the injection site. It wasn't infected and went away on it's own, but it's definitely something you will want to know could be coming.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:16 pm 
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One thing to consider that is unique to vegans is the possibility that you're discovering a food allergy to whatever the vaccine was cultivated in. If it's a reaction to the adjuvant, your doctor may be able to steer you towards different vaccine formulations.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:42 pm 
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I feel very lucky we've never had a reaction here besides a very mild rash.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:34 am 
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annak wrote:
One thing to consider that is unique to vegans is the possibility that you're discovering a food allergy to whatever the vaccine was cultivated in. If it's a reaction to the adjuvant, your doctor may be able to steer you towards different vaccine formulations.

Ooh, that is a really good point! I remember the health visitor asking before a job if my kid had an egg allergy or if we'd had any bad reactions to eggs and I was all, "I have no idea if my kid has an egg allergy, he's never had eggs."

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:28 pm 
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annak, we wondered about that last night, but then wouldn't she have reacted straightaway? Last night, she was hot through the night, then by this morning the fever broke and the spots disappeared. She's still unwell and just having a hard time and then a slight fever seemed to "return" tonight.

Having reactions to 2 vaccinations that are not described in the literature provided (or really anywhere accessible to me) shakes me up a little. When her leg was swollen and hot we called the doc, so there were some notes about it in her file when we went last week for the MMR. Of her own accord, the nurse says "that's very unusual". Yeah, thanks. :( We're going to push the last Hib/MenC back a bit just to make sure she's gotten through the MMR reactions (were supposed to go back in 4 weeks).

She was so very sad today...loads of tears. Whew. Sleeping well now, I think.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 6:33 pm 
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Andrew Wakefield, hypocrite and murderer:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronom ... field.html

I posted this link to Facebook, and I will be using responses to it as a guide for who to unfriend because frankly, I'm sick of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 2:53 am 
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solipsistnation wrote:
I posted this link to Facebook, and I will be using responses to it as a guide for who to unfriend because frankly, I'm sick of it.

My old roommate from college did a complete 180 on vaccinations (and GMO food and some other stuff and is getting too into Weston A Price if you ask me, which is a shame because I love many of her her anti-establishment viewpoints and she is really interesting when she is not regurgitating WAP nonsense (yes, I'm Weston A Price-shaming)). When my husband called her out on this (he remembers her berating him for not being vaccinated as a kid -- he got measles, mumps, whooping cough, and all kinds of other stuff -- anyway, he got all his jabs when we were in the US) in the middle of a debate on how she says raw milk can cure all ills, including milk allergies, she unfriended him and deleted his comment. :p

I would totally post that link and do the same thing you are doing, except I'm too preggo-frazzled to handle the drama that would come up.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 3:17 am 
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TheCrabbyCrafter wrote:
I would totally post that link and do the same thing you are doing, except I'm too preggo-frazzled to handle the drama that would come up.


I am mildly disappointed but mostly pretty happy that there has been basically no drama-- just a couple of people suggesting 1 kick in Wakefield's groin per person who has caught a previously-controlled (or mostly extinct) disease since his paper was published.

The people I thought would respond haven't risen to it, which I guess is good. I have a couple of high school and college friends who like to post image macros about everything from GMOs to fluoridation to vaccination (with side trips into how FEMA is prepping to detain and imprison all law enforcement officers who refuse to enforce gun control laws, but THAT is a whole thread in itself and I don't want anything to do with it), and while I try to debunk stuff that's easily debunkable (somebody posted something about Chicago's gun control laws and Chicago being the #1 city for gun violence in the US, which it isn't; stuff like that) it gets endlessly tedious.

It's SO EASY to post an image saying something dumb and get people on Facebook to share it-- I know that these aren't people who are actually stupid, too-- one of them graduated from a fairly tough tech school; one of them I know to be pretty bright in general-- but they get sucked into things and it's like the part of their brain that evaluates assertions shuts off. "Whoa there is an image macro it must be true!" and there it is, posted on Facebook. Maybe I'm expecting too much from posts on Facebook...

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 5:16 am 
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solipsistnation wrote:
It's SO EASY to post an image saying something dumb and get people on Facebook to share it-- I know that these aren't people who are actually stupid, too-- one of them graduated from a fairly tough tech school; one of them I know to be pretty bright in general-- but they get sucked into things and it's like the part of their brain that evaluates assertions shuts off. "Whoa there is an image macro it must be true!" and there it is, posted on Facebook. Maybe I'm expecting too much from posts on Facebook...

Ahahahaha! So true! I have an uncle who, every day at about the same time, posts a ton of right-wing political/pro-gun/Christian-Mormon memes. But in his case, he posts SO MANY in a row EVERY DAY, that it is friggin' hilarious. I also have an aunt, his sister, who re-posts all kinds of snopes-worthy images (followed by the big dissertation, like the baby carrots dipped in bleach and cut onions will kill you after a day and cinnamon in honey will cure your UTIs and kidney infections) and another aunt and her husband, who are like the Snopes Police and are always correcting my other aunt's posts and telling her to check snopes first. That is all kind of entertaining to me, but there are also a lot of other re-posters that totally do what you said above "it must be true!" and re-post without even thinking it through.

The ones that really, really bug me are the "kids these days are a bunch of little shiitakes because nobody forking beats their kids anymore!" Like all kids were proper and well-behaved at all times until the past 10-20 years or so when everyone suddenly stopped beating their kids and now kids are all crassholes.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 7:58 am 
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Yeah, seriously. If kids are worse behaved today (which I don't really believe), it is because we no longer hold them as accountable for their actions. Schools are a perfect example of this, and it is parent expectations that drives these crappy policies. If a student fails, parents complain, and schools cave. Kids will be kids and will take advantage when they can, so its on us if we allow lots of opportunities! Maybe this means taking away the iphone until they pass their math test; not smacking them around.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 2:16 am 
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I have learned a lot from this thread and from the whole Playground board! For instance, if the child needs to take something orally and get jabs, do the jabs second. And For multiple jabs, ask if multiple people can do them simultaneously--wish I'd done this! Some babies sleep a lot for days afterward. I felt ready. But there's one thing I wish I'd known that I don't recall seeing here.

At my baby's first round of vaccinations, he got jabbed, cried loudly, and I breastfed him. He fell asleep nursing, and we went home.

Then, 3.5 hours later, he woke up howling with all his strength. Desperate, full-body screams. He only stopped when he collapsed from exhaustion.

A friend's baby reacted the same way 4 hours after his shots. Neither pediatrician warned of anything like this.

I wish I'd had pain reliever on hand rather than having to buy it under those circumstances. We also had to call for advice on dosing for his weight/age, since the children's Tylenol (acetominophen) label was for only age 2 and older.

As much as I'd rather avoid giving medicine, and prefer a wait-until-it's-truly-needed approach, I think I might give him the Tylenol even before the shots next time.

Reffinej described poor Freya's allergic reactions. I assumed my baby was simply in pain. Anyone else have an experience like this? Do you give preventive pain relief? Hopefully others can avoid this extremely painful (for babies and for parents!) experience. Thanks, PPKers.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 6:50 am 
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I always do give some tylenol after shots. So far we haven't had any truly miserable days or reactions after immunizations - knock on wood.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 8:15 am 
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At our place, they were all, "go home and give your kid some Calpol," (which is like liquid Tylenol for babies). I didn't, but I was advised to.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 8:20 am 
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We used tylenol after shots at the first sign of fever or pain. I don't throw medicine around lightly, but I also want immunizations to go as smoothly as possible.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 9:40 am 
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We were advised that children's tylenol was OK if she seemed to be in pain later and given the appropriate dosage by the pediatrician. I didn't end up giving any - after the first round of shots I got the longest nap in then-newborn-history. Sorry to hear you had a scary experience, yesyes!


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 10:59 pm 
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We use baby ibuprofen (no tylenol, family history of asthma) after shots that seem to cause lasting pain (most don't for her) and let her suck a lollipop before and after shots as sugar is supposed to be good for pain.


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