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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:46 am 
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Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
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Tofulish wrote:
From Sanctimommy: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sanctimo ... ion=stream

"Here's the thing: I don't think it is the same thing to question vaccines and yet to adhere to the recommendations for car seat safety replacements and expiration dates. Yes, you may think it is ridiculous for me to replace my car seat after hitting a few potholes. But why would I not want to protect my child the best way possible? If there is the slightest chance that a tiny impact could make my carseat less effective, then I am going to go ahead and take all the questions I can regardless!!!!! It is not the same thing when it comes to vaccines, the drug companies and doctors absolutely stand to profit from pushing them. I don't see how anybody is going to make a profit by recommending proper car seat safety."


Don't car seat manufacturers make a profit of they sell more car seats? Isn't that obvious?

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:58 am 
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***LIES!!!***
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Yes, it is a joke.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:00 am 
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Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
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Ah. Sarcasm first thing in the morning is totally over my head.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:04 pm 
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Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
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Well, Vax had his first rounds of jabs today and he totally has autism now.

(JOKE!!)

Actually, everything went fine. Vax was asleep and the health visitor (who saw me reading the Millenium Trilogy and offered to lend me both the Swedish and British versions of The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo on DVD) gave him the oral one (which he slept through, but still managed to swallow, I guess?) and then when she did the two jabs, he woke up, screamed twice while his face was dark purple, and then fell back asleep. We were laughing so hard.
Vax has been his usual, chilled-out self all day.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:45 pm 
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Semen Strong
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This is good reminder of the dangers of shedding and of course is going around the anti-vax circles: http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/05/ ... 4120070518

Quote:
The Indiana toddler developed a rare rash known as eczema vaccinatum after playing with his father, a soldier vaccinated for deployment in Iraq, reported Dr. John Marcinak of the University of Chicago and CDC experts.

Experimental treatments helped the child, but the CDC said the incident showed that care must be taken by people who receive the smallpox vaccine. It was the first case of eczema vaccinatum reported in the United States since 1988, the CDC said. The child was hospitalized for 48 days but should suffer no long-term consequences other than possible scarring, said the report, published in the CDC's weekly report on death and disease.

Pox viruses can survive on inanimate objects so experts tested the family's home. "Multiple swab samples obtained from the home (e.g., from a bathroom washcloth, a slipper, a toy drum, a night stand, a booster seat, and an ointment container) and from items brought to the child's hospital room (e.g., an infant drinking cup and a car seat) were positive for vaccinia virus

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:46 pm 
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Semen Strong
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This is good reminder of the dangers of shedding and of course is going around the anti-vax circles: http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/05/ ... 4120070518

Quote:
The Indiana toddler developed a rare rash known as eczema vaccinatum after playing with his father, a soldier vaccinated for deployment in Iraq, reported Dr. John Marcinak of the University of Chicago and CDC experts.

Experimental treatments helped the child, but the CDC said the incident showed that care must be taken by people who receive the smallpox vaccine. It was the first case of eczema vaccinatum reported in the United States since 1988, the CDC said. The child was hospitalized for 48 days but should suffer no long-term consequences other than possible scarring, said the report, published in the CDC's weekly report on death and disease.

Pox viruses can survive on inanimate objects so experts tested the family's home. "Multiple swab samples obtained from the home (e.g., from a bathroom washcloth, a slipper, a toy drum, a night stand, a booster seat, and an ointment container) and from items brought to the child's hospital room (e.g., an infant drinking cup and a car seat) were positive for vaccinia virus

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:00 pm 
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this morning BabyPunk had her 4 month appt and last time she got her vax the leg that got 2 shots swelled up and she ran a low grade temp and screamed for 2 days straight.
so this time we did two shots instead of 3 and we will go back next week for the HiB shot and the rotavirus drink (i was planning on giving it to her today but i was trying to give her some preemptive tylenol and she kept gagging on it and she puked it back up on me so i couldnt guarantee she wouldnt puke the vax back up)

so far she is totally fine. no reaction whatsoever except a tiny bit sore and cranky. in fact she's not even sleepy she's totally fired up and flailing around.

i want my epic nap!!!

so maybe the reaction was a one time thing :-) :-) :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:25 pm 
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Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
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Raygold had his jabs yesterday. He literally only cried for about 2 seconds and was fine. And then the health visitors blew bubbles at him (genius) and he was so excited.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:15 am 
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Heh. I didn't know that the rotavirus one was a drink. They've been talking about it a lot here recently on message boards, as it's not routinely available but you can get it at some clinics.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:39 am 
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LisaPunk wrote:
this morning BabyPunk had her 4 month appt and last time she got her vax the leg that got 2 shots swelled up and she ran a low grade temp and screamed for 2 days straight.
so this time we did two shots instead of 3 and we will go back next week for the HiB shot and the rotavirus drink (i was planning on giving it to her today but i was trying to give her some preemptive tylenol and she kept gagging on it and she puked it back up on me so i couldnt guarantee she wouldnt puke the vax back up)

so far she is totally fine. no reaction whatsoever except a tiny bit sore and cranky. in fact she's not even sleepy she's totally fired up and flailing around.

i want my epic nap!!!

so maybe the reaction was a one time thing :-) :-) :-)


I was really hoping for an epic nap after the second round of vax too (so lovely after the first round). It didn't happen. The first round was the only time I got any extra sleep from it. And the rota drink, my pedi said its okay if they spit up some of it.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:39 pm 
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For those of you thinking, "I need trivially obvious conclusions to be backed up by science!" lately, the internet is here to help:

http://www.medpagetoday.com/Pediatrics/Vaccines/41466

Conclusion: being un- or under-vaccinated for pertussis leads to an increased risk of...wait for it...contracting pertussis

But it does include some stats on how many of the cases were undervaccinated and to what extent.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:45 pm 
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So today I was reading one of those "natural parenting" pages for my local community and I discovered that my pediatrician was listed as "non-vax" friendly. This totally horrified me. I really like my pediatrician, but I'm not sure if I like the idea that my 1 year old will be sitting in the waiting room (always for at least 45 minutes) with potentially non-vaccinated kids who have who knows what. Maybe I am making this into a bigger deal then it is? I mean, I was just doing CME on vaccination and saw the AAP does not recommend "dropping" people who refuse vaccination - but I kind of wish she would.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:53 pm 
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I don't think you're making too big a deal, but I may be an outlier.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:55 pm 
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I would call the office and ask for clarification/make your opinions known. My guess is that most pediatricians assume there is a push in one direction and not in the other...

ETA: you might share that paper I posted a while back that recommended against doctors accepting delayed/alternative vax schedule since it had an effect of increasing undervaccination due to the number of extra appointments required. Personally, I don't know that I would avoid an otherwise awesome pediatrician because of that policy but it is definitely a hit against them.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:08 pm 
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I will definitely have a conversation with her at the next appointment to clarify - maybe it is something more like she is alternate schedule friendly which wouldn't bother me nearly as much. I will check out the article you mentioned too Annak - I don't think I read it earlier but I can totally see how that delayed schedule leads to under vaccination - my sister put her child on a "delayed" (and selective) schedule and then didn't have the time to go in, or the child would have the sniffles and she wouldn't want to take her in, or they were planning on the zoo the day after and she didn't want to have her feeling bad...her baby who is 18 months old has had 1 oral vaccine and 1 injection.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:40 pm 
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annasrobbie wrote:
So today I was reading one of those "natural parenting" pages for my local community and I discovered that my pediatrician was listed as "non-vax" friendly. This totally horrified me. I really like my pediatrician, but I'm not sure if I like the idea that my 1 year old will be sitting in the waiting room (always for at least 45 minutes) with potentially non-vaccinated kids who have who knows what. Maybe I am making this into a bigger deal then it is? I mean, I was just doing CME on vaccination and saw the AAP does not recommend "dropping" people who refuse vaccination - but I kind of wish she would.


I would be more worried about the 45 minute wait.

I figure we mostly don't know whether or not the patients in the waiting room are vaccinated, since I think it is probably more likely that pediatricians don't drop people than that they do. Also, you don't know how many people have been neglecting office visits and are behind schedule or whatever else. Our pediatricians use a different side of the office to see sick kids than well visits, but there is only one waiting room, the exposure to sick kids is more worrisome to me than the unvaccinated ones, since you can still only pass along illness if you are actually carrying it or sick from it.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:13 pm 
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Yes, this office has only one waiting room, and I don't think they have separate "sick" or "well" exam rooms - I would be more concerned about him catching the whooping cough in the office more than the common cold though...her wait typically is quite long because she really takes her
time with appointments (which I appreciate) and I usually schedule late in the day because that is the time my work can spare me.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:30 pm 
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Yeah, I always find that to be a sketchy reason to have long waiting times. It's more about how they organize their office than how much time they spend per patient, since they obviously know how much time they're going to spend with the average patient. Overbooking is really just disrespectful and especially so when it's parents with little kids waiting. I've made a rule in my life not to use care providers who routinely have waits, my time is just as valuable as theirs, and the idea that I'd be double or even triple booked with someone else just really peas me off. *Especially* with a pediatrician's office - if they have a 45 minute wait why wouldn't they call you and let you know that before your appointment time? Why would they have you sit when you could just show up later? There is just really no justification for treating your patients like that.

Like anything else, you can't catch whooping cough from someone who doesn't have it. Although unvaccinated kids are more likely to get it, that doesn't mean unvaccinated = actively sick or that vaccinated means there's no chance they have it. I definitely agree that I don't even want my kids around unvaccinated kids because I'm afraid they're carrying the plague, but on the other hand it seems really irresponsible for doctors to drop un/undervaccinated kids, because those are the same parents who are likely to be less responsible about getting kids to any other kind of visit. Not maintaining a relationship with a family means they are less likely to have a relationship with any care provider, which could be much more of a serious problem for them and everyone else.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:01 pm 
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Semen Strong
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Our MD supports anti-vax and delayed/alternative schedule vaxing, and is really popular among the crunchy crowd. That position hasn't bothered us at all, and I tend to be a bit nervous where that stuff is concerned, because she schedules all her infant and toddler well-visits on one day, so that there is no overlap between sick kids and vulnerable infants and toddlers, which is awesome. And she takes you in the minute you get there. We have never once waited for longer than a minute or two at her office - even if I get there early, they'll put us in a room and have us wait there. I would not be happy if I had my vulnerable infant in with all the sick kiddos for 45 minutes, because that would be too big a risk for me.

Generally I like that our MD is open to a wide variety of views - I wouldn't like someone who just pushed alternative stuff but its nice to know someone who practices mainstream medicine but will also tell you that her patients have had success using alternative methods - like chiro for ear infections etc. We are also happy that she supports us cosleeping and BFing and I don't feel like I need to hide our veganism either.

Re contact with lots of unvaccinated children, we do a lot of events with people who don't vaccinate, and I don't really feel like there is a big risk to Leela (even back when she wasn't fully vaccinated). As Ariann says, you can't get something from someone who doesn't have it - and its unlikely that her playmates would have any of the diseases we vaccinate against. We keep sharing snacks and sippies to a minimum, and the bigger danger is the usual cold and tummy bugs that are generally going around the toddler population at any moment.

I posted a similar question about avoiding unvaxed kids when I was pregnant,, and people here, especially JENNA were really good at allaying my fears. I think the truth is that you could be around unvaxed kids anywhere - at playdates, at pre-school or daycare or in the park, and its a pretty small risk that any of them actually has something they could spread to your little one.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:09 pm 
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What do you you do if your kid is sick on the day she only takes well visits?


I agree that 45 minutes is ridiculous to wait with a baby/toddler/kid. We go to a really busy practice and our doctor spends time with us, but they don't overbook. I don't think we've waiting longer than ten minutes for a visit.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:13 pm 
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She does well visits in the morning, during a set block of time. We have always been able to see her the same day if L is sick.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:30 pm 
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Semen Strong
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I thought this was a funny post from someone who chose not to vaccinate his infant twins.
http://themattwalshblog.com/2013/09/07/ ... a-vaccine/

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:25 am 
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Our pediatrician will let you wait in a room if you have a super sick kid (even though they have separate sick/well waiting rooms), or a well kid in the middle of a norovirus outbreak or something. Maybe you could ask if you could wait in an empty room for your appointment if you are uncomfortable.

Ours also has a morning-afternoon block to split well visits from sick visits. If you can't get it in they have another pediatrician that they partner with who also has an after-hours urgent care clinic.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:59 am 
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Semen Strong
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Good HuffPo piece that pro-vaxers need to be as vocal as anti-vaxers are.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jj-keith/ ... 29948.html

Quote:
However, while there is nothing more "natural" than large numbers of children dying in a Malthusian cesspool of unchecked contagious disease, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that we should avoid that. This shouldn't be a controversial opinion. The increasing success of the anti-vaccine movement is endangering not only immune-compromised children such as Jack and Clio, but also infants too young to be vaccinated. To say nothing of the unvaccinated children themselves.

Being informed parents who research the recommendations of their pediatricians is one thing. Doctors aren't infallible. However, anti-vaccine advocates are asking parents to disavowing nearly the entire medical establishment and for much the same reason that cults cut off their followers from their families: If someone is to be convinced of something that cannot be supported legitimately, then legitimate sources must be discredited -- however clumsily.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:51 pm 
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Bill Gates has a blog that I follow and today he posted this about the effort to get kids in Pakistan vaccinated against polio:

Quote:
Toward the end of the day, I met the new Prime Minister of Pakistan, Nawaz Sharif. We'd spoken on the phone soon after his election, but this was our first face-to-face meeting. It was clear that he shares our resolve to get polio out of Pakistan once and for all, and we had a really good discussion about the challenges of getting polio vaccines to the children in Pakistan who need them. I was impressed by the strength of his conviction that vaccinating children is a matter of justice. The next couple of years are a particularly good opportunity for us to make progress on this goal.


LINK: http://www.thegatesnotes.com/Topics/Dev ... -Manhattan


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