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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:53 am 
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Ariann wrote:
I don't think we are creating super flu (immunization is not what causes viruses to mutate), but I am more interested in how being vaccinated against certain strains holds up - am I still immune to those strains a year later, five years later? Because if so, I'd think getting the shot every year would lead to greater and greater immunity against the random strains each year's shot may not cover. Right?


Yes! Those flu antibodies can last for pretty much your whole life. So the more flu vaccines you get, the more protection you'll have when those random strains come back.
Here's a short article about it: http://content.time.com/time/health/art ... 07,00.html


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:14 pm 
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i have a really stupid question about flu shots (for adults)
im thinking of getting one this year since i have an infant.
i have my physical next week and was thinking of asking for it then.
but here is my dumb question: if every year they make a new vaccine because it's a different strain should i wait til like December to get it since it's not actually flu season yet?
how do they know what strain will be going around this year?

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:17 pm 
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They make an educated guess as to which strains to use, and it'll be the same one in December.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:21 pm 
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ok so i should just get it over with next week then.

yuck i hate the flu shot

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:40 pm 
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I'm not sure whether "vaccination" is the word for this, but I'm REALLY ambivalent about the idea:

http://news.discovery.com/human/health/ ... 131016.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:29 pm 
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annak wrote:
I'm not sure whether "vaccination" is the word for this, but I'm REALLY ambivalent about the idea:

http://news.discovery.com/human/health/ ... 131016.htm

From the article wrote:
We think the emotional disorders (such as PTSD) following trauma exposure are the result of elevated ghrelin rather than HPA. It gives us a completely new set of targets to treat PTSD.”


Or maybe they're the result of forking EXPERIENCING TRAUMA!?!

I've got an idea: let's stop sending people off into bullshiitake wars, fund comprehensive veteran's physical and mental healthcare, rebuild the social net, and go from there.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:34 pm 
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j-dub wrote:
annak wrote:
I'm not sure whether "vaccination" is the word for this, but I'm REALLY ambivalent about the idea:

http://news.discovery.com/human/health/ ... 131016.htm

From the article wrote:
We think the emotional disorders (such as PTSD) following trauma exposure are the result of elevated ghrelin rather than HPA. It gives us a completely new set of targets to treat PTSD.”


Or maybe they're the result of forking EXPERIENCING TRAUMA!?!

I've got an idea: let's stop sending people off into bullshiitake wars, fund comprehensive veteran's physical and mental healthcare, rebuild the social net, and go from there.


I think that the headline is possibly irresponsible. Science reporting is such shiitake.
Quote:
“As to the ‘vaccination’ issue, it is premature to talk about that and probably also not a good idea,” said Bruce McEwen, director of the neuroendocrinology laboratory at Rockefeller University in New York in an e-mail. “Ghrelin is a hormone and also a neuromodulator that stimulates appetite and also enhances aspects of cognitive function. A systemic vaccination might not even work and could ... make people anorectic and impair other aspects of physiology by blocking good actions of ghrelin.”

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:38 pm 
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I am glad that I was ignorant of the extent of anti-vaxers when my child was small. I don't know if the pediatrician we had then was friendly to that idea (I think not as the nurses were all very pro-vax and the doctor stressed the importance of vaccines).

I think that they should disclose that very clearly so that educated choices can be made about potential exposure in a place that some parents might not expect it.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:15 pm 
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LisaPunk wrote:
ok so i should just get it over with next week then.

yuck i hate the flu shot


Yup, when I took my microbiology class we talked about this. They look at the various flu strains that are around and choose the strains for the flu vaccine earlier in the year. There may be a lot flu variations around but the vaccine has 3? or so based on what they think are best to vaccinate against.

I got my shot a couple weeks ago.

And regarding 23 seniors dying this year of the flu shot? The statistics for seniors dying of flu every year is in the tens of thousands.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:32 am 
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linanil wrote:
LisaPunk wrote:
ok so i should just get it over with next week then.

yuck i hate the flu shot


Yup, when I took my microbiology class we talked about this. They look at the various flu strains that are around and choose the strains for the flu vaccine earlier in the year. There may be a lot flu variations around but the vaccine has 3? or so based on what they think are best to vaccinate against.

Also, flu season in the southern hemisphere is earlier than our flu season, so they can look at what viruses are most active there.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:09 pm 
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linanil wrote:
LisaPunk wrote:
ok so i should just get it over with next week then.

yuck i hate the flu shot


Yup, when I took my microbiology class we talked about this. They look at the various flu strains that are around and choose the strains for the flu vaccine earlier in the year. There may be a lot flu variations around but the vaccine has 3? or so based on what they think are best to vaccinate against.

I got my shot a couple weeks ago.

And regarding 23 seniors dying this year of the flu shot? The statistics for seniors dying of flu every year is in the tens of thousands.



yeah i just couldnt touch that one (about 23 seniors dying)
i mean that's horrible that 23 people died but if we say not to vaccinate seniors because a teensy weensy percentage die then we just end up with more seniors dying FROM the flu.

ugh.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:59 pm 
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Also, I looked up the info, it is from a specific type of flu vaccine...
Quote:
Within 6 months post-vaccination, 156 (6.1%) Fluzone High-Dose recipients and 93 (7.4%) Fluzone recipients experienced a serious adverse event. No deaths were reported within 28 days post-vaccination. A total of 23 deaths were reported during the period Day 29 - 180 post-vaccination: (0.6%) among Fluzone High-Dose recipients and 7 (0.6%) among Fluzone 1 recipients. The majority of these participants had a medical history of cardiac, hepatic, neoplastic, renal, and/or respiratory diseases. No deaths were considered to be caused by vaccination.


So basically, within 6 months of getting a flu vaccine, 23 seniors (out of 3222 total) died and none of the deaths are attributed to the vaccine. I mean if you pick 3222 random seniors, how many of those will die within a 6 month period?

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:47 pm 
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well if you're going to look for FACTS

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:03 pm 
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linanil wrote:
Also, I looked up the info, it is from a specific type of flu vaccine...
Quote:
Within 6 months post-vaccination, 156 (6.1%) Fluzone High-Dose recipients and 93 (7.4%) Fluzone recipients experienced a serious adverse event. No deaths were reported within 28 days post-vaccination. A total of 23 deaths were reported during the period Day 29 - 180 post-vaccination: (0.6%) among Fluzone High-Dose recipients and 7 (0.6%) among Fluzone 1 recipients. The majority of these participants had a medical history of cardiac, hepatic, neoplastic, renal, and/or respiratory diseases. No deaths were considered to be caused by vaccination.


So basically, within 6 months of getting a flu vaccine, 23 seniors (out of 3222 total) died and none of the deaths are attributed to the vaccine. I mean if you pick 3222 random seniors, how many of those will die within a 6 month period?


Yes, you need to know how many of the people in your sample are likely to die in that period anyway regardless of any intervention, and then work out if more or less people died than that number. It's called excess mortality.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:29 pm 
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http://sciencenordic.com/no-serious-sid ... pv-vaccine

Quote:
Researchers have examined Swedish and Danish health registers that include roughly 300,000 girls vaccinated with HPV and compared them with almost 700,000 unvaccinated girls born from 1988 to 2000 in Sweden and Denmark.

“We see nothing indicating that the HPV vaccine involves any risk of serious side effects,” says Associate Professor Lisen Arnheim-Dahlström of Karolinska Institute’s (KI’s) Department of Medical Epidemiology and Biostatistics.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:58 am 
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has anyone ever had to get synagis shots for their baby to prevent RSV?
originally BP was a candidate then was not a candidate but i just took her back to the cardiologist today and she has to go back on her meds because she has some fluid retention and the nurse and the dr we saw today (not the normal dr we see) said she should get the synagis shots.

i was all fine with that but i told my husband and he is like not on board. he must have done some reading previously and he said it sounds like "a bad one"
hes at work and i was in the car so i didnt go into depth about why he thought that so we;ll discuss it tonight but im reading a bit about it and apparently it's not an actual vaccine but a series of shots of antibodies to neutralize RSV during flu/cold season.

im terrible at googling things and the only side effects i can find other than the run of the mill swelling and fever is anaphalactic shock/death.
so now im totally freaked out because i cant find the likelihood of that (ie is it 1 in a million? 1 in several hundred thousand? 1 in a bajillion?)
and then im thinking isnt that a possible severe side effect of all vaccines?

right now i feel like i have to choose between potential anaphalactic shock or potential hospitalization due to pneumonia and i dont even know if my health insurance will cover these shots

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:04 am 
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Yes, that is a potential side effect of any vaccine. It's an allergic reaction. But you can also research (or ask your doc to) the contents of the RSV shot and find out if its components are ones she has already received, in which case, the likelihood of allergy is basically none.

If I had a kid who was potentially immune compromised I would jump on the RSV shot. Malka had rsv at 2 months and it was really, really awful.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:29 am 
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yes, but anaphylaxis is a potential risk of almost anything, though, including the antibiotics you routinely give for ear infections, etc, dental work, and basically any other facet of life.

both my kids had synagis monthly for the first 2 or 3 years. we really had no choice, my daughter would not have been able to fight it off with her cardiac issues. RSV sucks and if you can get the vaccine, i would do it.

ETA: does cardiology have an opinion?

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:03 pm 
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torque it was actually a cardiologist who told us to do it. she came off the diuretic she was on last month because she was doing so much better but the last week or so she has this random cough every now and then and it;s like like a "cough cough i have a cold cough" its more like "i have too much fluid in my lungs cough"
so i took her in today and our reg cardio isnt there on thursdays so we saw one of the other drs in the practice and they asked me if she was getting the RSV shots and both her and the nurse said we should do it.

so i think my husband is stuck on the fact that our normal cardio told us just a month ago she wasnt a candidate and he doesnt see why her being on meds again makes her a candidate even though it's crystal clear to me.

last month he said that they give it to babies who are turning blue or having trouble breathing which at the time she was not doing.
not she has been having very mild issues breathing, enough to warrant being put back on meds.

so i take it neither of your kids ever had issues with the vaccine itself?
it sounds like there arent too many side effects other than swelling and fever and then of course there is always a small chance of severe reaction.

i called my health insurance and didnt get a definitive answer. my pediatrician would have to submit some paperwork to them so i dont know if they'll cover it but it sounds like i would know before we did it at the very least.

my husband also for some reason had some issue with the way the shot was made. i didnt get the whole story but he said something about it's like a genetically modified organism or i dont know. i have no idea what his issue was.
the only thing i can think of is he didnt realize it's not technically a vaccine.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:37 pm 
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I think you have to push your husband for a less meaningless answer if he has a real objection. If he doesn't have a real objection and your insurance winds up covering it, you are going to have the opportunity to protect BabyPunk from something really nasty that you really don't want her to get, especially when she is not 100%.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:07 pm 
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I emailed our regular cardiologist (holy crepe! I've never emailed a dr before!!!) and asked him his thoughts since he had said last month she was no longer a candidate and if he could explain to my husband why he thought she should get them.
Either his response satisfied my husband or the fact that I obviously felt it was important or the fact that in the drs email he said if we found in a couple weeks her rapid breathing was virus rather than heart related we can discontinue the shots but my husband is on board now. So on Monday I'll start the process to see if insurance will pay for them.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:18 pm 
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this RSV shot is turning into the biggest pain in the butt ever.
first i had to call my insurance company to see if they would even pay for it since it's insanely expensive. then i had to have the pedi do a prior authorization for it which was fine.
i got a letter in the mail stating she was authorized for 5 doses so cool. all set. this coincided with what was to be her 6 month appt yesterday.

then i start getting the phone calls.
the pharmacy we are getting it through (which i think is connected with my health insurance somehow) called me one night and they confirmed everything, so ok fine. no biggie. they asked when she was going to receive it and i was like "well gee she's going to the dr wednesday but i dont think it will be there by then" so the woman on the phone said they would overnight it for wednesday morning delivery so she could get it at her 2pm appt.
apparently the medical assistant at the pedi office also asked them to get it there for wednesday.
so we show up wednesday at 2 and the shot is MIA.

not a huge deal as she was due for other vax and i only want her getting 2 shots at a time but now i have to go in THREE times so she can get all her shots.

the medical assitant must have called the pharmacy people while i was there because she came back saying it would be delivered friday.

ok cool. all set right?

i just got ANOTHER call and i had to answer ANOTHER 100 questions.

geesh.

we'll see if it even arrives friday.

i think the shot is mainly given to preemies because even my dr said she hadnt thought of it for Charlotte because usually it's for preemies and she forgot the other two indications for it (respiratory and cardiac issues) and the woman on the phone kept asking me questions like was she admitted to the NICU after birth and how old was she gestationally when she was born, etc.
i feel like even though i have the piece of paper saying we were approved they are gonna be like "yeah we changed our minds"

:-P

apparently they will be calling me next month as well! Fort Knox of shots!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:18 pm 
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i am so sorry, i didn't see this before.
neither of my kids had any issues with the shot itself. we had all sorts of other issues, soreness or whatever just wasn't even on the radar.
i am so glad to hear your husband is on board. he did have a point, which i hesitate to even bring up, it is made with mouse DNA. but let's be honest here, everything from aspirin to cardiac catheterization involves large scale animal use and abuse. your kid getting sick is not going to do anything to change it. letting her grow up with strong feelings about eliminating or reducing animal testing might change it. /soapbox

it is CRAZY expensive and they don't want to waste a single vial (about US$800/vial for us when we did it, and my kid is 13 now, so....). It will have to be kept cool, they need to check the kid's weight because at some point the shots will require more than one vial due to weight, etc. Hope your ped is close to your home and not a PITA to get to.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:52 pm 
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Question for people who understand how vaccines work: I just saw my rhuematologist today, and she asked if I had my flu shot already, and if my kids got the flu mist. Yes on both counts, so she says I need to be careful around them when they get live vaccines like that one, shingles, and MMR. My immune system is compromised because I have rheumatoid arthritis and as treatment I'm taking an immune-suppressing drug. This does not make sense to me, I didn't think that could happen?

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:33 pm 
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Okay, I guess it is a thing for the flu vaccine; the CDC calls it shedding. It's never been reported to happen with shingles though.

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