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 Post subject: Dealing with picky eaters - husband wants to introduce meat
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:16 pm 
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Hi, I posted here once a long time ago. I've lurked over the past couple years and read that entire thread on what you feed your kids. I got some great advice, but I am still having issues with my kids eating, or not eating as the case may be. A little background: I have 17 month old twins and an omni husband who agreed to raise them vegan until they could make up their own decision on eating meat. My daughter had severe IUGR (she stopped growing in utero) and was born full-term for twins weighing only 3 pounds, 3 ounces. She was not anywhere near the growth chart. My son was bigger, but also on the small side.

They are still small (daughter is bottom 5-10% and son is 25% for both weight and height), but to hear my husband talk you would think they are dying. Meals are so stressful and we're usually all crying at the end and looking at a floor covered in food that they've thrown instead of eaten. I'm not happy about how things are but my husband is even more unhappy and thinks meat is all they need to suddenly jump up on th growth chart. I'm short, but he's tall so he expects them to be in the 50% or more. So now we're fighting over whether to give them meat. I obviously want what is best for them, but I don't think that means serving meat. I think my husband has unrealistic expectations given where they've started and my genetics. It will either end up on the floor with the rest of the food (and we're no better off than where we started, but the poor cow is much worse) or they'll love it and I'll have to face the fact that I've failed as a parent.

We met with a vegan dietician arout 5 months ago to get a plan. We have a great plan; they just don't follow it. No pediatrician has every expressed concern with their size. They are actually good with eating tofu and fruit, it's vegetables, grains and legumes that are the problem.

Has anyone struggled with a spouse who wanted to give meat? Or a child that wasn't growing fast enough? Do they make a vegan Ensure or some kind of supplement shake?


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 Post subject: Re: Dealing with picky eaters - husband wants to introduce m
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:39 pm 
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I don't think there is a vegan product. My daughter (also a twin) had various issues that left her underneath the entire growth curve and we looked into it (I had just become vegan at the time).

I know you didn't ask this question, but i will say it anyway- regardless of the vegan issues, creating this much stress around meal times is not creating a healthy environment for the child, and will probably make everything worse.
I would look at it from that end- you have to be on the level with your husband in terms of expectations. If he thinks that feeding meat is going to get the kid from 5% to 100%, he is most likely going to be sorely disappointed. Do you have a good relationship with your pediatrician where you can all sit down to talk together?

PS- again, not for nothing, but if your kid chooses not to be vegan, that does not mean you have failed as a parent. At least that is what I tell myself, anyway. They can always choose to follow your example once they are past the age of reason, expecting them to accept what took most of us years to figure out might be a bit much to expect.

Big hugs. I remember how upsetting the feeding stuff was- something so elemental and basic, I couldn't believe that we couldn't figure it out. This shiitake is complicated, and from someone else who survived having twins, i salute you!!

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 Post subject: Re: Dealing with picky eaters - husband wants to introduce m
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:45 pm 
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That sounds like such a charged situation. :(

It sounds like the health professionals you've talked with aren't concerned, but your husband is. And it's hard to convince someone to change their mind when their opinion is fear-based. Developmentally, picky eating is really common at this age. Pretty much all kids go through this and do just fine. But I can understand how it would trigger your husband's worries if the kids started off small.

Which is all to say, nothing about this makes you a failure, either as a mother or animal advocate.

Can you sit down with your husband and talk about what success would look like? What would the children have to eat/weigh for him not to worry? Is he worried about calories? Nutrients? Growth?

If you've looked at that other thread, you've probably seen people recommend Ellen Satter and Dina Rose. They might be helpful for you and your husband to look at. The books talk about strategies to get kids to eat without pressuring them, but more importantly, they'll put this all in context and lower the pressure on both of you. Picky eating is normal. They'll survive it. And your goal is to teach them to be adventurous, healthy eaters, not to control what they're eating.


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 Post subject: Re: Dealing with picky eaters - husband wants to introduce m
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:15 pm 
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hey there,
you said you lurk quite a bit, have you read any of my posts about my daughter?
my daughter will be 23 months next week and does not eat ANY solid food and has JUST started drinking soy milk and smoothies reliably so although my husband is not suggesting meat or worried about her growth we are in the same situation as far as not much eating and very small babies.

my daughter has very severe oral aversion and basically doesnt want anything near her mouth. she is not even on the growth chart whatsoever for weight.
at almost 2 i know infants who are bigger than her. she weighs only 17 lbs BUT she has been small since birth (she was consistantly at the bottom of the growth chart and just recently fell off). no health professional has ever expressed concern about her *size*
they have expressed concern about her lack of eating but not about size.
we currently have early intervention come to our house every other week and we go to the nutrition clinic at a nearby hospital. no one has like thrown up the red flag like OMG THIS KID DOESNT EAT!! THIS IS A HUGE MAJOR PROBLEM THIS SECOND!!!
it's more like "let's see if we can get her to start trusting things near her mouth and in the mean time try to sneak calories into her"

it sounds like your kids dont necessary have an aversion to eating itself but more are picky eaters who are also small.
i would say if they are eating tofu and fruits then they are probably doing well and just going through picky toddlerhood.

do they drink milk? would they drink a smoothie?
now that my daughter will drink things i make her a smoothie everyday. lately it's been some flavor of soy yogurt, then either chocolate or vanilla soymilk, olive oil, blackstrap molasses, chia powder, infant vit D supplement (because it's liquid) and if i have some then some silken tofu. today i threw a small blob of peanut butter in as well but not too much because i cant make it too thick.
it depends on the day. today she hasnt had much but yesterday she drank like 6 oz which i cant even explain to you how much that is for her.
my husband is also VERY VERY tall and my daughter is on the height growth chart but still on the shorter end so she may sprout up one day or she may just be petite.

it's hard because if you're fighting with your husband over it and it's making life stressful someone has to cave. to be honest i dont think meat is the answer even just looking at it from outside of a vegan perspective. forgetting all that and just looking at nutrition and growth i dont envision giving them meat is going to make them all of a sudden start devouring food and growth tons.

they were born small and will probably need some catching up to do especially if your daughter was IUGR. she may just be on the petite side in general.
my daughter was born with a congenital heart defect and the cardiologist said she will probably just be a petite human. there is some correlation between the two.

if they are following a growth curve consistantly regardless of where they are on the curve then there is no cause for alarm. when my daughter was hanging out at the 1-2%tile for most of her first year and a half the dr didnt seem concerned as she stayed right on the curve perfectly.

also as someone mentioned (torque?) having meal times be that stressful is actualy going to give them a bad association with food.
at one point i actually stopped offering my daughter food every night at dinner because i was so unbelievably stressed out over it and she wasnt ready yet. both the Early Intervetion lady and the nutrition clinic both agreed that i did the right thing. you cant make mealtime a battle zone.

and at the end of the day if you decide to go the route of giving them meat honestly your first priority is to their health. and if they eat meat it's not the end of the world. you can still teach them about animal suffering and veganism and they may choose to stop eating meat on their own one day. it does sound like they are eating a few things though so again, i dont really think that feeding them meat is going to solve anything.

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 Post subject: Re: Dealing with picky eaters - husband wants to introduce m
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:10 pm 
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A few thoughts. First, I have several friends who have had growth or feeding issues with their kids, and they were all omnis. Meat is not the magic to fix this. I can see how he is thinking that because in his head it makes sense to think of the one thing about his kids' babyhoods that is different from his and blame the growth on that. But something making sense doesn't make it true.

Second, it seems very common among my omni friends to have kids be especially picky about meat and not want to eat it. I have had a ton ask me for nutrition advice for how to raise a veg kid because their kids simply won't eat meat when they are toddlers. So if he thinks his picky kids are going to be suddenly not picky about meats, he needs to talk to some other parents.

Third, I second the recommendation of a smoothie if they will drink it. That is a great way to sneak some stuff into them.

Fourth, and clear evidence that this is stream of consciousness and in no particular order, try not to invest so much in your kids choosing to be vegan. My mom went vegetarian when I was 7 or 8. I continued to be omni. Roughly two months after moving out of her home I went veg. It was a combination of her being annoying and a really bad cook, so I thought vegetarian food was gross. But probably mostly she was annoying because I was a teenager and she was a normal mom. It didn't make my mom a bad parent, or that she failed to instill her values, or anything. And now I've been veg for 22 years, so clearly that decision took. But the lesson I am going to try to learn from my experience is to try to be chill with my kids and present information and my values, but not seem too invested in their choices.

And lastly, good luck with all of this. Feeding issues are so stressful.


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 Post subject: Re: Dealing with picky eaters - husband wants to introduce m
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:54 pm 
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I don't have any advice, but I will echo the comment about toddlers not liking meat. My two siblings and i all were not into meat until older. I don't remember exactly our ages when we decided it was good, but yeah, meat is not the magic pill here.

I hope you find solutions, and peace in your home.

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 Post subject: Re: Dealing with picky eaters - husband wants to introduce m
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:04 pm 
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Thank you so much for these responses!

I read It's not about the Broccoli after reading the food thread. It had some great ideas for older kids, but i thought mine were too young to benefit from Rose's advice at the time. I'll look over it again now that they're a little older. They are just starting to talk, but they understand a lot of what I say. I'm just not sure they would get eating zones yet.

They definitely do not have an oral aversion; they put everything that is not food in their mouth. They drink a lot of smoothies, usually two a day. They drink green smoothies sometimes, but I should figure out more ways to sneak veggies and more fat into their smoothies. They drink a lot of milk, too. We just moved but their old pediatrician was an acquaintance of mine. I will try to find her email and ask her for advice.

My husband thinks that eating meat will also make them eat other food and then he insulted my cooking. This is all very strange because even though he's always been omni, he's been so supportive of veganism. He used to stand up to co-workers and friends who made fun of vegan food, but now they aren't eating (as much as he wants) because they don't like vegan food. I convinced him to wait until we can meet with another dietician. Hopefully I can get enough information together to convince him to stay vegan.


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 Post subject: Re: Dealing with picky eaters - husband wants to introduce m
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:07 pm 
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I was nanny for omni twins, one of whom was very small, very picky and was diagnosed with failure to thrive around 2. He was offered meat plenty but wouldn't eat it. If they eat smoothies, that's great! Coconut oil works really well in smoothies.

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 Post subject: Re: Dealing with picky eaters - husband wants to introduce m
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:16 pm 
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What does your husband think that eating meat will do? Does he think they will like it more and be encouraged to eat or does he think meat is just going to make them grow? In general, as long as they are staying within their percentiles they are ok. It's not expected that kids will magically jump from 25th to 50th percentiles. It's just a cause for concern if they went from 25th to 5th. I'm sure you already know this and I'm sure your husband is just concerned for your kids and speaking emotionally. I hope you guys work something out. Do you think it would help if he read some materials about feeding kids on a vegan diet?

There's also a book that I really liked when I was studying pediatric nutrition called Child of Mine and it's a pretty different approach to feeding kids that sounds really interesting. I don't have kids, so I haven't been able to actually try it. She's not exactly pro vegan, which was annoying, but the ideas are interesting. The author is Ellyn Satter and I think she has info on her website, too.

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 Post subject: Re: Dealing with picky eaters - husband wants to introduce m
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 7:16 am 
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suburbanvegan wrote:
My husband thinks that eating meat will also make them eat other food and then he insulted my cooking. This is all very strange because even though he's always been omni, he's been so supportive of veganism. He used to stand up to co-workers and friends who made fun of vegan food, but now they aren't eating (as much as he wants) because they don't like vegan food. I convinced him to wait until we can meet with another dietician. Hopefully I can get enough information together to convince him to stay vegan.

Again, not for nothing, but raising children and multiples especially is incredibly tough on a relationship. I hope you can get a chance to sit down, without the kids, and talk about what is going on in general, maybe with someone else or without, so you can remember why you are together in the first place and work together. More tough decisions are on the way in terms of school, discipline, etc and it is good to be on the same page with how you are going to face these challenges.

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 Post subject: Re: Dealing with picky eaters - husband wants to introduce m
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:27 am 
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I strongly recommend going back and looking at It's Not about the Broccoli again. I found her suggestions spot on when my daughter was your kids' age. They may not be able to verbalize some of the things she asks of kids (like "tell me what it tastes like"), but things like the rotation rule and eating zones can be created without them having verbal skills and I found both of those things made a HUGE DIFFERENCE in quantity of food eaten at my house in the pre-verbal stage, and you can always teach them/talk to them about food even if they can't verbally show you they understand. When we're slacking off on the eating we always turn back to those rules successfully. Now that she's totally verbal we spend a lot of time working on tolerating foods being on the table or being on her plate that she doesn't feel like eating right this minute - she's learned to say "but I don't like X *TODAY*!" rather than "I don't like that!" (And re: Ellyn Satter and Dina Rose - Dina Rose basically just takes Ellyn Satter to the next level, otherwise they are quite similar in their approaches, I find Dina more useful because of how much time she spends dealing with the parents' emotional issues around feeding. Those sections of the book might be really helpful for your husband to read.)

I have a child who fell off the weight chart - fell from 50% in her first year to below the chart in her second - primarily because she was slow to warm up to solid food and then had one long respiratory illness that made her lose her appetite and throw up a lot (from gagging on and swallowing mucous) so she lost about a pound at 12 months. She has slowly inched back up to around 15% and nobody at all was concerned about her falling off the chart because it was explainable and wasn't due to failure to thrive and nobody medical has ever been concerned about her veganism. I think it would be really helpful for your pediatrician to talk to both of you about how kids follow growth curves and the kinds of non-worrying things that can make a child stay small. Someone has to be at the bottom of the chart, and it's certainly unsurprising that it's a kid with IUGR!


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 Post subject: Re: Dealing with picky eaters - husband wants to introduce m
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:04 am 
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ijustdiedinside wrote:
What does your husband think that eating meat will do? Does he think they will like it more and be encouraged to eat or does he think meat is just going to make them grow? In general, as long as they are staying within their percentiles they are ok. It's not expected that kids will magically jump from 25th to 50th percentiles. It's just a cause for concern if they went from 25th to 5th. I'm sure you already know this and I'm sure your husband is just concerned for your kids and speaking emotionally. I hope you guys work something out. Do you think it would help if he read some materials about feeding kids on a vegan diet?

...


At first I thought he wanted meat for the protein that it would add to their diet. When I pointed out how much protein they eat already, then he said that meat will make them eat other things on their plate. That makes no sense to me. They aren't going to start eating broccoli just because they ate a piece of chicken. They have no interest in vegan faux meats, which I think are pretty realistic (at least from what I can remember from 18 years ago). Gardein chicken fingers end up on the floor next to broccoli and I'm willing to bet that's where a real chicken finger would end up, too.
I will try to find some reading material for him on vegan diets and picky eaters. I don't think he understands how prevel any picky toddlers are.


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 Post subject: Re: Dealing with picky eaters - husband wants to introduce m
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:06 am 
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strawberryrock wrote:
I was nanny for omni twins, one of whom was very small, very picky and was diagnosed with failure to thrive around 2. He was offered meat plenty but wouldn't eat it. If they eat smoothies, that's great! Coconut oil works really well in smoothies.



Coconut oil! Good idea. I will start adding that to smoothie. I remember reading about that twin. How is he doing now, if you know?


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 Post subject: Re: Dealing with picky eaters - husband wants to introduce m
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:12 am 
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torque wrote:
Again, not for nothing, but raising children and multiples especially is incredibly tough on a relationship. I hope you can get a chance to sit down, without the kids, and talk about what is going on in general, maybe with someone else or without, so you can remember why you are together in the first place and work together. More tough decisions are on the way in terms of school, discipline, etc and it is good to be on the same page with how you are going to face these challenges.


Oh man, it is so hard. We definitely need to talk things through. It just occurred to me this morning that the pressure to introduce meat might be coming from his mom. She has been helping me for weeks at a time while my husband travels for work and has been experiencing the pickiness first hand. She has always been very accommodating with my vegan diet but she doesn't like that the twins don't eat meat. If she is turning my husband against me on parenting issues, then that is a much bigger issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Dealing with picky eaters - husband wants to introduce m
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:18 am 
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Ariann wrote:
I strongly recommend going back and looking at It's Not about the Broccoli again. I found her suggestions spot on when my daughter was your kids' age. They may not be able to verbalize some of the things she asks of kids (like "tell me what it tastes like"), but things like the rotation rule and eating zones can be created without them having verbal skills and I found both of those things made a HUGE DIFFERENCE in quantity of food eaten at my house in the pre-verbal stage, and you can always teach them/talk to them about food even if they can't verbally show you they understand. When we're slacking off on the eating we always turn back to those rules successfully. Now that she's totally verbal we spend a lot of time working on tolerating foods being on the table or being on her plate that she doesn't feel like eating right this minute - she's learned to say "but I don't like X *TODAY*!" rather than "I don't like that!" (And re: Ellyn Satter and Dina Rose - Dina Rose basically just takes Ellyn Satter to the next level, otherwise they are quite similar in their approaches, I find Dina more useful because of how much time she spends dealing with the parents' emotional issues around feeding. Those sections of the book might be really helpful for your husband to read.)

I have a child who fell off the weight chart - fell from 50% in her first year to below the chart in her second - primarily because she was slow to warm up to solid food and then had one long respiratory illness that made her lose her appetite and throw up a lot (from gagging on and swallowing mucous) so she lost about a pound at 12 months. She has slowly inched back up to around 15% and nobody at all was concerned about her falling off the chart because it was explainable and wasn't due to failure to thrive and nobody medical has ever been concerned about her veganism. I think it would be really helpful for your pediatrician to talk to both of you about how kids follow growth curves and the kinds of non-worrying things that can make a child stay small. Someone has to be at the bottom of the chart, and it's certainly unsurprising that it's a kid with IUGR!


I will definitely take a look again this evening and try to get my husband to do the same.

My husband is a doctor, so you would think he'd understand how growth charts work, but he's so focused on a number that he can't see anything else. Of course the baby with IUGR is going to be low on the chart. And our son has gone from below 10% to 25%, I think that's pretty good! Glad to hear your daughter is doing better now. It's so scary dealing with sick kids.


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 Post subject: Re: Dealing with picky eaters - husband wants to introduce m
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:19 am 
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suburbanvegan wrote:
torque wrote:
Again, not for nothing, but raising children and multiples especially is incredibly tough on a relationship. I hope you can get a chance to sit down, without the kids, and talk about what is going on in general, maybe with someone else or without, so you can remember why you are together in the first place and work together. More tough decisions are on the way in terms of school, discipline, etc and it is good to be on the same page with how you are going to face these challenges.


Oh man, it is so hard. We definitely need to talk things through. It just occurred to me this morning that the pressure to introduce meat might be coming from his mom. She has been helping me for weeks at a time while my husband travels for work and has been experiencing the pickiness first hand. She has always been very accommodating with my vegan diet but she doesn't like that the twins don't eat meat. If she is turning my husband against me on parenting issues, then that is a much bigger issue.


My MIL, who was not helping me, tried to pull this nonsense when my daughter was being evaluated for developmental delays. Again, I think people just get freaked out and reach for anything to give a quick fix to the problem. And for people raised omni, feeding kids meat is the most obvious thing you are doing differently. I shut my MIL down pretty quickly, but we also don't have a good relationship, so I don't think you want to take my approach. I do think it comes from a place of worry and anxiety though, and we are not at our most rational when we are freaking out.

One thing that helped me deal with toddler pickiness was when someone explained the evolutionary advantages of it. The quick explanation is that once kids become mobile, they are able to leave a parent's side and put lots and lots of stuff in their mouths. The kids who were picky about eating were less likely to eat poisonous things, and so they lived and spread their genes, and the kids who ate everything didn't. So now it is really common for kids to become picky during toddlerhood, and most come out of it around 5. It has been fascinating to watch that at play with my own kids, and sure enough, 5 has seemed like a magic age where they slowly start to be more open to eating other things.


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 Post subject: Re: Dealing with picky eaters - husband wants to introduce m
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:53 pm 
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i think as someone suggested the best thing to do is have a sit down with your husband and have him explain exactly what his issue is and what he is thinking in terms of why he thinks they are poor eaters and what success would be to him whether it's quantity or a weight or a percentile.

i think like you say it's coming from some outside place as not a lot of it seems rational to me especially since he's a dr.

some people have issues with kids not eating meat. it's like they tolerant adults making the decision to not eat meat but they think you are somehow endangering children when they dont eat meat because the idea is so entrenched in their brain.

so much stuff has also changed since a lot of us were kids. i think my dad secretly does not approve of me not feeding BabyPunk meat. he makes jokey comments every now and then which is annoying but overall we have a good relationship so i just sort of let it slide.
before the whole eating thing came up regardless of veganism i remember when BP was 4 months old my dad made a comment at a party we were at how we had to start feeding her food because there was no way she could live on breastmilk alone that she must need "something else"
this was way before we had even thought about food and we were planning on (and did) wait until 6 months to even start introducing food which is a general recommendation these days. back in the day though i think parents were pushed to start feeding rice cereal at like 3-4 months. i think that's when my mom said i started eating (4 months?)
those ideas are hard to shake off.
so if it's coming from your MIL she probably has some thoughts in her head about how she did things and how she thinks it's right but really it kind of doesnt matter since they arent her kids.
you and your husband need to have a united front rather than your husband and your MIL vs you.
and i totally agree a real chicken nugget is not going to be any more interesting than a fake chicken nugget if they dont want to eat that.

maybe talk to your husband about how stressed out this makes you. at least with my own husband he is sometimes super oblivious and i have to spell things out for him to get him to help me with something.

good luck!

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 Post subject: Re: Dealing with picky eaters - husband wants to introduce m
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:09 pm 
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here are a couple of things from the vegetarian nutrition group of the dietetic association: http://vegetariannutrition.net/docs/Veg ... nfants.pdf http://vegetariannutrition.net/docs/Tod ... rition.pdf

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 Post subject: Re: Dealing with picky eaters - husband wants to introduce m
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:16 pm 
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I can't add anything on the specific issue of a spouse not being supportive of feeding kids vegan, but I do have some thoughts about parenting conflicts generally that might be of help. When it comes to disagreements about health and welfare issues for my son, I find that it's helpful to have an "expert" (i.e. someone other than me) explain my position. So, for example, I was worried about my husband picking our son up by one arm and my husband wasn't receptive to me saying so because he felt I was coming from a place of accusing him of not being a good enough parent. In that case, I asked my pediatrician if it was safe to lift a small child by one arm and he explained the possible risks and that resolved the issue. I think because there's nothing personal or emotional about my husband's relationship to our pediatrician or dentist or whomever, he tends to respond from a more rational place.

Since your doctor seems to be unconcerned about your kids' growth, perhaps he or she could be the person to explain that there's nothing wrong with feeding a child a vegan diet. (Or, at the very least, he or she could explain things like pickiness being normal for young kids, etc.)

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 Post subject: Re: Dealing with picky eaters - husband wants to introduce m
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:47 pm 
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is it possible the kids are picking up your husband's and MIL's subconscious potential distaste for vegan foods? if they see them unenthusiastically feeding them, it could provide an unintentional bias.

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 Post subject: Re: Dealing with picky eaters - husband wants to introduce m
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 4:09 pm 
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torque wrote:
PS- again, not for nothing, but if your kid chooses not to be vegan, that does not mean you have failed as a parent. At least that is what I tell myself, anyway. They can always choose to follow your example once they are past the age of reason, expecting them to accept what took most of us years to figure out might be a bit much to expect.


The way I figure it, if you start out vegan or vegetarian, it gives them something to rebel against when they're teenagers that won't, you know, kill them or get them arrested. If the worst that happens is one of the kids comes home and defiantly eats a ham sandwich in the living room I'll actually feel pretty good about the whole thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Dealing with picky eaters - husband wants to introduce m
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:26 pm 
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ooh, now you're cookin!! that's my story and i'm stickin to it!

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 Post subject: Re: Dealing with picky eaters - husband wants to introduce m
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:35 pm 
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solipsistnation wrote:
torque wrote:
PS- again, not for nothing, but if your kid chooses not to be vegan, that does not mean you have failed as a parent. At least that is what I tell myself, anyway. They can always choose to follow your example once they are past the age of reason, expecting them to accept what took most of us years to figure out might be a bit much to expect.


The way I figure it, if you start out vegan or vegetarian, it gives them something to rebel against when they're teenagers that won't, you know, kill them or get them arrested. If the worst that happens is one of the kids comes home and defiantly eats a ham sandwich in the living room I'll actually feel pretty good about the whole thing.


and yet i am TERRIFIED of this.

what if one day BabyPunk comes home eating a hamburger and saying GWB was the best president ever?

kill me now.

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 Post subject: Re: Dealing with picky eaters - husband wants to introduce m
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:49 pm 
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Nobody tells you that is the chance you take when you have kids!! Nowadays I think about how my politics were the polar opposite of my parents, and can't IMAGINE my kid having the absolute opposite beliefs of me. If I had thought about it a bit more I would have been too terrified to think that reproduction was a good idea.

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 Post subject: Re: Dealing with picky eaters - husband wants to introduce m
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:10 pm 
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i cant even think about it.
although my parents are pretty moderate. no idea where the flaming liberal hippie me came from.

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