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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:50 pm 
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The Real Hamburger Helper
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Bohdi, we do what you are describing: we put her in the crib to start, and when she wakes up in the night we bring her to our bed. She co-slept only until about 9 or 10 months and then we started the crib. It took a few days for her to get used to it and there were tears. I love it though now that we have the routine down.


I still nurse her to sleep and then put her in the crib. When she comes to bed around 3 or 4 she nurses back to sleep. One night a week I'm not home early enough to put her down and my partner does it. He gives her a bottle and wears her in a mei tai. We have used that as a method to put her down since the beginning. Maybe you have something like that that your partner could try?

I don't know if the crib in the kids room would matter or not. Maybe try it there before you move it? It could be that your other child sleeps through it. Some kids can sleep through armegeddon.


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:24 pm 
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we are having a major setback the last few days. I was so happy and nearly content that Sierra was going down around 9 in her crib and not waking up again until 2 or 3am but we are now back to the waking at midnight. I'm so bummed because I thought we finally had a situation I could deal with! Last night when she awoke at midnight on the button H and I were already in bed and had decided to see if we could ride this out. So we let her babble and kinda cry half-heartedly on and off for almost 45 minutes before she seemingly fell back asleep. She never got to the point of screaming or REALLY crying, so I was ok with it (although I sure couldn't sleep through it). But instead of then going back to sleep for a few hours, she awoke at 1:30 screaming and then proceeded to nurse in our bed for - I am not kidding here - like 2 hours. Then at 3 Dahlia came and woke us up to go to the bathroom and since I had to de-latch Sierra screamed her head off for the 2 seconds i was gone, and I got back into bed and just kinda lost it. Apparently one lovely bonus that came with parenthood for me is I occasionally have panic attacks..so what started as me just kinda whimpering/crying a little turned into full-on hyperventilation. So forking shitty. In the middle of it I asked H "please just put Sierra back in her crib" and he did, she screamed for 30 seconds and then fell asleep til 7am.
I just don't know what to do. I need a few hours without her attached to me at night and I would really like it to be the first few hours of my bedtime. But her goddamn internal clock is just not cooperating anymore and it's really taking a step back to the first 9 months of her life when I was miserably unrested and uncomfortable all night long. Tonight we're going to try to keep her up a little later but in the past it hasn't mattered what time she went down because midnight is just The Bad Time. I feel like I was so close to maybe being able to go out for a night once in a while and now that ain't happening. So frustrated and disappointed and freaked out that something relatively minor like this is causing me to be unable to catch my freakin' breath.


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:40 pm 
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Audrey, that sounds really awful. Don't beat yourself up though. Getting a relatively decent amount of sleep is important! Do you think if you try a few more nights, she might go back to the 2/3 a.m. wakings? Maybe she's just going through some sort of developmental phase?

We're having sucky times here, so I feel your pain. Are you still able to get some sleep in the mornings before going to work? That small amount of "no one is in this bed except me" rest is invaluable to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:03 pm 
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Lubes With Earth Balance
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ahhh I just can't predict anything anymore. We had a terrible weekend sleep-wise and then, last night, she slept from 9 to 4 in her crib. I woke up around 3:45 confused and delighted.

refinnej, H still tries to let me sleep a few mornings a week BUT D gets highly insulted if i don't get up and hang out with her, so she usually acts up and gets all loud so that I'll get up. Stupid small apartment. And I also have all this guilt about it because it makes Howard's day alone with them start even earlier, so I usually have trouble going back to sleep anyway.

By the way, I don't think I understood just how important naps are for older kids until recently. D goes through phases of not wanting to nap - we make her stay in her room anyway - and when she doesn't, holy crepe she is demonic. She had all privileges revoked all weekend because she just would not listen to us, you know that whole shtick where you're telling her to stop doing something and she looks right at you and continues to do it, etc. And I think it really all stemmed from the fact that she refused to nap for 3 days. Yesterday she did nap and was perfectly sweet and I tried to talk to her about how maybe she doesn't feel so nice when she's tired. I wonder if she truly understands. In any case, I totally hate that she misbehaves all weekend and makes us all miserable, but come Monday is all sad that I'm going back to work.


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:16 pm 
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Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
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Thanks for the feedback, Butternut!

We've just (finally) started trying to get him to sleep in the crib. Partner is in there right now with him. Not going well! He is seriously like 75% asleep, and so so so tired, but the second he touches the crib he is ANGRY. And he just screams. Even though if we cuddle in the bed, he starts to fall asleep, wakes himself up, sits up, and flops over. Why can't he do that in the crib?! Agh!

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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:53 am 
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Last week we got a mattress for Ada's room and just got sheets/covers for it yesterday. Now we need to actually move her into her room. I couldn't go through with it last night.


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:17 pm 
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Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
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sashi wrote:
Last week we got a mattress for Ada's room and just got sheets/covers for it yesterday. Now we need to actually move her into her room. I couldn't go through with it last night.

Lots of luck to you! I forget how old Ada is - but maybe if she sees she's got new sheets and her very own bed, she might be quite excited about moving? I hope the transition goes well for you!

So last night we tried out having Zephyr fall asleep in his crib. My partner went in and tried, and Zephie was just crying and so tired, but after maybe 10 minutes (which felt like eternity), he settled down. He actually fell asleep! And stayed asleep from about 9pm until 3:15am (this was kind of take two, as he did sleep a bit earlier). Alone in his crib! I got to sleep next to my partner with no children in the way! Amazing.

And then my partner got him to sleep a second time - my partner's never put him to sleep before, so he's learning. Which is excellent, because somehow I woke up at 3am, feeling utterly vile and nauseous, and spent the next hour in front of the toilet. Miraculously, I felt better after that, and cuddled with my boys and seem to be mostly fine this morning.

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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:50 pm 
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bodhi wrote:
Thanks for the feedback, Butternut!

We've just (finally) started trying to get him to sleep in the crib. Partner is in there right now with him. Not going well! He is seriously like 75% asleep, and so so so tired, but the second he touches the crib he is ANGRY. And he just screams. Even though if we cuddle in the bed, he starts to fall asleep, wakes himself up, sits up, and flops over. Why can't he do that in the crib?! Agh!


Yeah, this was our experience with the crib. We gave up, it was just not happening. But that means our lives are much harder now, since we have to get a kid who hates sleep to go to sleep in a bed that she can easily escape from.


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:23 pm 
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Ariann, I've only recently been able to put V to bed awake, and it's still inconsistent. But it's getting better, just like for her sleeping through the night was a very gradual process and we still have good and bad days. (Daylight savings time coupled with longer days was a huge disruption to our schedule/routine). She's never had a crib - we started out here when we moved in when she was 12 months with a mattress on the floor, bought a bed a few months later - but at this point she only gets out of bed when she really does need some intervention to get back to sleep.

I don't believe in crying it out for younger kids, but she's 20 months old, so I don't feel that bad about sticking to our routine - night diaper and PJs, teeth brushing, 5 stories in bed, and then I kiss her good night, turn off the light, shut the door, and walk away. If she's still awake and upset 5 minutes later, then we go back to the nursing to sleep stuff, which is then usually much quicker. It's made the bedtime routine much quicker in general. Before it was, sit on the couch watching TV trying to nurse her until she would finally drift off, and sometimes it could take hours.


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:37 pm 
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Our routine is usually tooth-brushing, bottle (have to do bottle after, because tooth-brushing causes extreme hysterics), three books, three songs with lights off, cuddles until sleep. The cuddles, though, are mostly just blocking her from getting out of bed. She will eventually go to sleep if you just keep her from getting out of bed. She might scream the whole way through until she's asleep, though. (Then you have to extricate yourself carefully, or risk having to start all over.) But if I just leave the room and close the door, she gets out of bed and stands at the door, banging it, screaming at the top of her lungs until you rescue her.

When we're going to sleep, we open her door and leave ours open, close the gate to the living room, and then usually sometimes between 3 and 5am she gets out of bed very quietly, walks to the side of our bed, says "mommy" and we put her in our bed and she goes right back to sleep.

We tried ditching the bedtime routine, and that seemed better for a couple nights, then it seemed the same once she got wise to what was happening.


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:43 pm 
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We co-sleep, but our night time routine is as follows: We brush L's teeth, read her several stories and once the eye rubbing starts, then we turn off the light and snuggle with her and nurse until she falls asleep. Last night we faked being asleep for about an hour before she got the hint. At that point, my partner had faked it so long, he was actually out cold. I read that after 15 months they are pretty good at taking parental cues - so if they see you sleeping they go along with it. I don't get out of bed if she wakes up, I just shush her and fake sleep until she goes back to sleep, which normally doesn't take more than 30 mins. Its so much better than trying to entertain her for the 2 hours it used to take to get her to go back to sleep when I woke up with her in the middle of the night...

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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:44 pm 
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Yeah, until very recently V would usually just get up and bang on the door as well. And occasionally she still does - like I said, it's a gradual process - but the last week I've been really going for at least trying the bedtime routine and it has worked more often than not. So maybe in a couple months, what seems inconceivable now will just sorta click like it did for us.

I also have just gotten fed up with the nurse her to sleep on the couch, try to carry her and transplant her to the bed without her waking up, and sneak out (or nurse her to sleep in her bed, then it's even harder to sneak out because her eyes/ears are adjusted to darkness and silence). Then the @#%$ing cat starts meowing his @#$%@##$!#!@#!@!@#!@ head off for food, whether or not his dish is full, and wakes her up and I have to start over.

Anyway I don't have solutions but a message of hope: getting her to sleep through the night in her own bed did not work that great for us a couple months ago, but it just suddenly got easier a couple weeks ago when I got fed up and re-tried a strict routine. Plus I think the association of books/reading/fun with her bed helps, because she willingly gets in and pulls the blanket "over her toes" to read. Books used to wind her up, not calm her down, but it's just gotten much better recently.


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:27 pm 
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Semen Strong
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The moments where the cat or dog chooses the exact moment that the kid has just drifted off to sleep to make some sort of insane racket - barking, throwing their bodies against the door, rattling food dishes, yelling - are the moments when I have the most unvegan impulses.

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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:33 pm 
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TRVTH


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:28 pm 
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bodhi wrote:
sashi wrote:
Last week we got a mattress for Ada's room and just got sheets/covers for it yesterday. Now we need to actually move her into her room. I couldn't go through with it last night.

Lots of luck to you! I forget how old Ada is - but maybe if she sees she's got new sheets and her very own bed, she might be quite excited about moving? I hope the transition goes well for you!

She's 23 months. She is definitely excited about the bed. I think I'm more nervous about her waking up and getting upset because we're not there.

Our first attempt at getting her to sleep in her room is in progress! She seemed perfectly ok with it when I left the room. My husband is laying down with her right now until she falls asleep. So we'll see how it goes!


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:05 pm 
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bodhi wrote:
sashi wrote:
Last week we got a mattress for Ada's room and just got sheets/covers for it yesterday. Now we need to actually move her into her room. I couldn't go through with it last night.

Lots of luck to you! I forget how old Ada is - but maybe if she sees she's got new sheets and her very own bed, she might be quite excited about moving? I hope the transition goes well for you!

So last night we tried out having Zephyr fall asleep in his crib. My partner went in and tried, and Zephie was just crying and so tired, but after maybe 10 minutes (which felt like eternity), he settled down. He actually fell asleep! And stayed asleep from about 9pm until 3:15am (this was kind of take two, as he did sleep a bit earlier). Alone in his crib! I got to sleep next to my partner with no children in the way! Amazing.

And then my partner got him to sleep a second time - my partner's never put him to sleep before, so he's learning. Which is excellent, because somehow I woke up at 3am, feeling utterly vile and nauseous, and spent the next hour in front of the toilet. Miraculously, I felt better after that, and cuddled with my boys and seem to be mostly fine this morning.


Yes, that how it was for us the first time or two. After we got over that hump of the newness of the crib she goes down without a fuss. Hope it gets easier for you guys, too.


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:42 pm 
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Ada slept in her room last night! It was super weird not having her in our room. She did wake up at 6am screaming and was sitting on her rug when we went in. So at some point she rolled off of the mattress. I brought her into our bed and she went back to sleep for a little bit. She rolls around so much in her sleep I have no idea how she's going to be able to stay on a twin mattress all night.


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:09 pm 
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hey just fyi Sashi when we moved D into her own room with a small bed (Ikea fold-up thing that is narrower than a twin but longer than a toddler mattress), we bought a pink cushy rail for the side of it. It had a part that slips under the mattress to hold it, and the side of the rail was mesh with some fuzzy trim. I think it was like $20 at BabiesRUs and it really helped, because D was definitely used to a crib with high sides so this made her still feel secure. But when we have visitors they sleep in D's bed and H eventually got tired of putting the rail back, so we just stopped using it and yep, D fell out of bed a couple times. She really liked to sleep on the very edge of the bed, so we had to talk with her about sleeping closer to the wall, and it's been fine ever since.


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:15 pm 
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Yeah, I was thinking we would get a rail when her bed frame came (it's back ordered until may). But if she keeps rolling off of just the mattress and waking up maybe we'll see if one would work now.


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:06 pm 
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woo I'm here to crow that last night I slept for 6 straight hours, the first time since last May. Sierra slept from 9 to 4:30 in her crib, came into our bed and nursed for an hour and then back to the crib til 8:30. It was glorious. It's also unseasonably warm here and she seems to really enjoy that, I wonder if the 2 things are related.


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:51 am 
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Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
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Audrey -- 6 hours, that's awesome!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:50 pm 
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Woot! 6 hours! We've had a handful of those nights and it's amazing!

We're still all over the board with night sleeping, but I have some sort of 6th sense that we're on the right track. My question now is about daytime naps. F still takes 2 naps a day, though the one in the morning is usually pretty short (though not always). I'm quite tired most mornings as she's generally waking at least twice, sometimes up to 4 or 5 times/night, so I try and rest or sleep with her. In the afternoon, she tends to sleep longer 1 1/2 hours or more, and is more solid sleeping (less rolling, less noticing if I'm there, etc.) So I decided to try her this week in her crib in the afternoons. I figured she'd sleep better without me next to her, playing on my phone. Plus, I can get a bit of work done, relax or exercise. The trouble is that so far, she wakes up absolutely hysterical. It's been just three days because we had something going on on Monday, so I just had her nap with me in the big bed as usual. When she wakes in the night, she cries/fusses and sometimes it escalates and I'll go to her. Only very rarely is she really really upset, and I'm pretty sure it's when she's had a nightmare or a couple of times when I've heard a thump and suspect she's hit her head. She's going to sleep in the afternoon, laying down in the bed sleepy but awake, but still wakes absolutely hysterical. Tuesday, the first time, she was shaking and sobbing so much that I thought she may vomit (this is when I went to her after about 40 seconds, maybe!). Yesterday, not quite as severe but similar and after second waking, I just held her in the rocking chair as she slept because she was shaking/shuddering. Today, she slept/woke twice (both times starting sleepily awake in the bed). The first time, I was laying on my bed just across the hall, so was there really fast, just a few seconds as I started to hear her get wound up. The second time, I was downstairs but still up there in under a minute (can hear on baby monitor) and she was at the edge of the crib *screaming* mommy! mommy! mommy! and went to pieces when I picked her up.

Her reactions are not just drama though (she's not really that kind of kid as of yet anyway)..she's really freaked out. I just can't figure out if it's just missing me or what. She loves her bed, she likes sleeping in there at night, but now yesterday/today she's a bit wary. Oi, baby...mommy can't nap with you for 2 hours every day!


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:53 pm 
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I have no idea, refinnej. We get some similar reactions sometimes. A couple nights ago Malka was being super weird - I put her down to bed (took an hour or so, ugh), then she woke up twenty minutes later screaming her brains out, soothed her for ten minutes, woke up ten minutes later the same way, repeat once more, and then finally we just laid on the couch skin to skin with her on top of me and she was willing to get into a deep sleep that way. It was so weird.

We saw the pediatrician today who suggested we CIO. She said, "my 3-year-old is still in bed with us, our 7 month old who we did CIO with sleeps through the night in her crib." Argh. Even if I were willing, how? How would I get past the part where she gets out of bed, stands and bangs at the door, screaming her brains out? It's crazy how nobody has any usable advice on this!


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:04 pm 
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refinnej, we've totally been through that type of thing too. It's so heart-wrenching when they seem so terrified and upset. I do wish I knew more about tot's brains and nightmares etc. because often I feel like something is really WRONG but I have no idea what it could be and of course they lack the language to tell you. It really does sound like you're on the right track though, and I hope this is just a phase she may be going through sleep-wise (even though she's older, D went through a phase where she woke up an hour after falling asleep screaming bloody murder every single night for like a month! Then it stopped and has never happened again.)

Ariann, a-fucking-men to your last few sentences! Like, even if we were willing to let her scream, it doesn't help the rest of the household get any sleep - and yeah, there are these people called NEIGHBORS...I tried telling that to my mom and she said "oh well, it would only be for a night or two". Yeah, not necessarily. Some things I've read seem to suggest that there is some magic time frame between the baby being young enough to honestly just need you (and/or milk) in the middle of the night so you shouldn't let them cry and the kid being too old to let them cry because they are insanely loud crazed toddlers.


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:41 am 
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We're finally making progress on the jet lag! We've been home for almost two weeks now and have gone from 2 AM bedtime (where bedtime is the time tw actually falls asleep) with 6-9 wake-ups a night to 10 PM bedtime. And--though I hardly dare speak it-- she's been sleeping for a 4 hour stretch, then 3 hours, then an hour or so twice.

I'm hoping to keep pushing bedtime back to 9 PM, but that will probably take another week to do. Still, before this trip 4 hours was the longest tw had ever slept and it only happened maybe 3 times. So this is pretty awesome for me.


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