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 Post subject: Soy
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:39 pm 
Hearts James Cromwell
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So I was just told that I should never give my child soy, ever... In fact I was told that I would be the worst human in the world if I ever gave my child anything containing the slightest amount of soy because it will give my child ADHD and ze will become violent. I'm sure that was an exaggeration. But I'm a little shaken up right now. And I'm sure the person also hates my veganism but it still hurts. All I did was give them some candy with soy lectin.

But yeah, what's the consensus on soy? Is it safe for kids? Anyone have any experience giving their children soy? Did they become crazy violent? ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Soy
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:27 pm 
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ADHD and violence are new ones for me, but there's a ton of misinformation out there about soy. Unless you have some very specific health issues, there's no reason to avoid it in moderation. Moderation being about 2 servings a day. I'm not sure how that translates to kids who aren't eating adult portions yet.

Here's Jack Norris (a registered dietician) on soy: http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/soy_wth
And the Harvard School of Public Health (for a nonvegan source): https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritions ... about-soy/


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 Post subject: Re: Soy
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:31 pm 
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Well, The Chinese have been feeding their kids soy for 5000+ years, and other Asian cultures have relied heavily upon it too, so your 'friend' was giving you a lot of bullshiitake derived from the Weston Price Foundation, a bizarre cult that is paranoid about soy and encourages people to eat as much animal fat as possible. All reliable studies indicate that unless someone has a soy allergy, soy is an extremely healthy food.

Anecdotally, my kids (in their mid-30's now) were raised eating soy pretty much daily, and both always scored in the top 1% academically and had no hyperactive issues - or any other health issues. I'm also the only woman in generations in my family not to have had horrible issues with menopause - pretty much breezed through it.

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 Post subject: Re: Soy
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:50 pm 
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Not a mom, but I'd like to point out that anti-soy people usually eat soy lecithin, oil, and whatever else is found in normal goods without batting an eye. And assuming this friend is omni, soy-fed animals go on that list, too.

Like anything else, excess soy can be bad. But as Jill points out, soy has been a staple in Asia for countless years.


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 Post subject: Re: Soy
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:44 pm 
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wow that's a special level of crazy

as someone mentioned soy is a staple in Asian cultures, unless they are suggesting everyone in Asian is violent and has ADHD.....

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 Post subject: Re: Soy
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:18 pm 
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I eat a ton of soy and I like video games about blowing things up AND I have ADD so yeah, it's definitely totally true and stuff. It's so true it's been true since long before I had that first taste of tofu-- soy violence is SO BAD it DEFIES CAUSALITY.

Also as high school salutatorian and a THREE-TIME college dropout, I totally resent the implication that people with ADD aren't totally academically awesome. It takes a lot of effort to get into three colleges! All those neurotypical types and their piddly little ONE college EACH? I laugh at them: HA HA HA! They're not even trying!!

So anyway, yes, that is a load of crepe and you shouldn't worry about soy unless you and/or your kids are sucking down a couple of pounds of tofu a day.

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 Post subject: Re: Soy
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:15 pm 
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My kid eats a ton of soy and she is a genius and never gets sick! What more proof do you need that soy is great?


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 Post subject: Re: Soy
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:48 pm 
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I am going to rant for a sec, and it's not directed at anyone in this thread, it is just something I want to get off my chest.

When the fork did ADD become this major bogeyman? It seems like I am hearing this everywhere about everything lately, and honestly, I really weary of hearing people make claims that such-and-such will give your child ADD!!11!! like it's the bubonic plague or something.

First of all, how super blame-y, am I right? Your kid has a cognitive disability, IT MUST BE SOMETHING YOU DID WRONG. If only you had fed precious the right foods and not poison tofu soup! If only you hadn't let him watch television that time when he was sick! If only!

Secondly, it's ADD. It's... not the end of the world. Lots and lots and lots of people with ADD have happy, successful, productive lives. (I am one of them.) Is it an additional challenge? Sure! Can it make some things really suck? Yes! But ya know, no one's life is perfect or free from difficulty.

In short, bring on the forking tofu, haters.

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 Post subject: Re: Soy
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:40 pm 
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coldandsleepy wrote:
I am going to rant for a sec, and it's not directed at anyone in this thread, it is just something I want to get off my chest.

When the fork did ADD become this major bogeyman? It seems like I am hearing this everywhere about everything lately, and honestly, I really weary of hearing people make claims that such-and-such will give your child ADD!!11!! like it's the bubonic plague or something.

First of all, how super blame-y, am I right? Your kid has a cognitive disability, IT MUST BE SOMETHING YOU DID WRONG. If only you had fed precious the right foods and not poison tofu soup! If only you hadn't let him watch television that time when he was sick! If only!

Secondly, it's ADD. It's... not the end of the world. Lots and lots and lots of people with ADD have happy, successful, productive lives. (I am one of them.) Is it an additional challenge? Sure! Can it make some things really suck? Yes! But ya know, no one's life is perfect or free from difficulty.

In short, bring on the forking tofu, haters.


*applauds*

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 Post subject: Re: Soy
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:38 pm 
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coldandsleepy wrote:
Secondly, it's ADD. It's... not the end of the world. Lots and lots and lots of people with ADD have happy, successful, productive lives. (I am one of them.) Is it an additional challenge? Sure! Can it make some things really suck? Yes! But ya know, no one's life is perfect or free from difficulty.


I'm another of them. I wasn't kidding about that up there. (One of the first date-like things C&S and I went on was to participate in a medical study for people with ADD. Fun times!)

In addition, some of the smartest people I know display behavior that could be categorized as ADD-ish.

So yeah. So what if your kid has ADD? Give them a ton of Legos and stuff and let them go to town.

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 Post subject: Re: Soy
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:18 am 
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My daughter was on soy formula almost from birth to about 18 months, when she switched to sucking down quite a lot of soy milk. She still has about a pint of soy milk a day and some other soy product maybe every other or every third day (a hot dog, chikn nuggets, etc.).

Happy and healthy over here, pretty clever, too. No attention span to speak of, but then again, she's 2.

What I really hate is not just the demonization of things like ADD (which really can be debilitating, as it's been for one of my siblings), but the idea that our goal in parenting is perfection and that any deviation from the path of perfection means you're actually a terrible parent. Many thousands of healthy children have been raised on soy formula and lots of other soy in the US (never mind the traditional soy foods cultures), I'm not going to feel bad about choosing an adequate source of nourishment considering my own needs, values, and financial circumstances.


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 Post subject: Re: Soy
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:55 am 
Hearts James Cromwell
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Thanks everyone! I feel a lot better now :) I was almost in tears when I wrote the OP. I was probably a little over dramatic, but I'm still sort of a new parent. (I've already had to ban myself from mommy forums because they caused me so much stress!)

But the woman who said that, our friend is getting married in about two weeks and we are both in the wedding. We were friends in high school but we don't hang out much anymore. We were out getting stuff for the wedding. She has since become an extreme health nut and will find any opportunity to tell you what she had for breakfast lunch and dinner the past few days. She follows and extreme form of the paleo diet and will preach that it is the best diet in the world and the only way that anyone should eat. She also preaches the evils of soy and gluten and how they are killing us. She gets very insecure when someone's diet might be healthier than hers. So for my veganism, she thinks it is unhealthy but I get the impression that she thinks that I could be right and so she has to take every to turn me away from veganism. Funny thing is, while I eat healthier than the time before I went vegan, I do still eat a lot of unhealthy things, and I bake cookies way too much. She doesn't get that my diet is mostly for ethical reasons and not so much health reasons. So when she saw the candy, she just went off. Also, she said that I shouldn't eat soy when pregnant or breastfeeding. (I didn't tell her that I ate tofu several times a week when pregnant!)

But I should have rolled my eyes and ignored her. It still kind of hurt though. I won't be seeing her after the wedding after that.


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 Post subject: Re: Soy
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:06 am 
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Kal wrote:
Thanks everyone! I feel a lot better now :) I was almost in tears when I wrote the OP. I was probably a little over dramatic, but I'm still sort of a new parent. (I've already had to ban myself from mommy forums because they caused me so much stress!)


Mommy forums are the WORST. Even if people mean well, they're still very often-- and I'm not sure there's a way to avoid saying this-- relentlessly stupid.

If you do Facebook things, this might help deflate the self-important wibbling found on the worst of forums:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sanctimo ... 3471000365

Quote:
But the woman who said that, [...] She follows an extreme form of the paleo diet


You can, and, indeed, _should_ ignore any nutritional advice she might offer.

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 Post subject: Re: Soy
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:32 am 
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I want to be IRL friends with C&S and Soplisnation! I am already lucky enough to be IRL friends with Ariann. They are all spot on. And +1 to what mooo said! My daughter eats soy and is awesome.

Also, I used to go on mommy forums and people are so much meaner than they would be IRL.

And at the end of the day, we don't parent by consensus - I have a few people I trust that I listen to and everyone else can STFU. It gives you a lot of peace to just ignore all the idiots. No one should be making you cry!

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 Post subject: Re: Soy
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:03 am 
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Kal wrote:
Thanks everyone! I feel a lot better now :) I was almost in tears when I wrote the OP. I was probably a little over dramatic, but I'm still sort of a new parent. (I've already had to ban myself from mommy forums because they caused me so much stress!)

But the woman who said that, our friend is getting married in about two weeks and we are both in the wedding. We were friends in high school but we don't hang out much anymore. We were out getting stuff for the wedding. She has since become an extreme health nut and will find any opportunity to tell you what she had for breakfast lunch and dinner the past few days. She follows and extreme form of the paleo diet and will preach that it is the best diet in the world and the only way that anyone should eat. She also preaches the evils of soy and gluten and how they are killing us. She gets very insecure when someone's diet might be healthier than hers. So for my veganism, she thinks it is unhealthy but I get the impression that she thinks that I could be right and so she has to take every to turn me away from veganism. Funny thing is, while I eat healthier than the time before I went vegan, I do still eat a lot of unhealthy things, and I bake cookies way too much. She doesn't get that my diet is mostly for ethical reasons and not so much health reasons. So when she saw the candy, she just went off. Also, she said that I shouldn't eat soy when pregnant or breastfeeding. (I didn't tell her that I ate tofu several times a week when pregnant!)

But I should have rolled my eyes and ignored her. It still kind of hurt though. I won't be seeing her after the wedding after that.


It's like I always say...cookies are good for your mental health. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Soy
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:41 am 
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I have a paleo friend who goes on facebook rants about soy. It is annoying, but I just ignore it. It isn't worth losing the friendship over - people are going to believe what the want to believe, just like I do. Like, I think the paleo diet is completely idiotic from an evolutionary perspective, but that's just me. I learned long ago there is no point in getting in arguments with people over these types of things, it is a waste of energy.

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 Post subject: Re: Soy
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:34 pm 
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choirqueer wrote:
It's like I always say...cookies are good for your mental health. :)

NEW LIFE MOTTO OMG.

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 Post subject: Re: Soy
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:30 pm 
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it's tough when people suggest your parenting is anything but the best. we all want the best for our kiddoes and the problem is that everyone has a different idea of what the best is.

i find that people who often spout off endlessly about something (for example nutrition) do so because secretly they know they are lacking and want reassurance.

my MIL posts on fb all the time about the evils of gluten and other random Earth News-esque health stuff.
IRL her diet is crepe. she eats tons of bread (so much for the evils of gluten), etc.

luckily though she continually posts all that on fb she doesnt actually shove it in your face in real life and has always been very supportive of my diet and of what i feed BP so far.

i think you did the best thing just to ignore it and walk away but yeah i understand it stings.
i wonder if the wedding stress is getting to this person and the idea that we all have to look fabulous on our wedding day and thin and fit, etc. maybe once that is done she will regain some sense of normalcy?

or if it's not someone you see much like you say you can just let that friendship fade into the background

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It's just funny to think that we could go through years of this, become the president of the damn country, and still, we'd be eating pasta with veggies at every. damn. function.~~Joyfulgirl


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 Post subject: Re: Soy
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:17 pm 
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Yes, soy is safe for kids. It's just a bean. :)

My 2 year old daughter eats a ton of soy. She loves soy milk, tofu, soy yoghurt, and tempeh. I personally never had any concerns about it.

Mommy forums should be banned. I went on a couple of German parenting forums during my pregnancy and I was constantly switching between laughing like crazy and eating my keyboard.


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 Post subject: Re: Soy
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:42 pm 
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Eating one's keyboard has been linked with narcolepsy, ulcers, and exploding head syndrome! Don't do it!

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 Post subject: Re: Soy
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:49 pm 
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Mihl wrote:
Mommy forums should be banned. I went on a couple of German parenting forums during my pregnancy and I was constantly switching between laughing like crazy and eating my keyboard.


I once posted that I was vegan on a Mothering forum, and got an incredibly nasty private message with an attack from one of the moderators, calling me an ignorant crasshole for wanting to raise my daughter vegan. I reported her, but nothing happened, so I stopped posting there.

My response to "OMG soy has phytoestrogens in it!" is always "You know what has actual, mammalian estrogen in it? Cow milk. If you think estrogen is such a danger, I assume you don't eat dairy, right?" And then blissful silence. Not one person has ever been able to counter that. Because it turns the tables really nicely from you having to defend yourself to them having to defend their choices, which no one wants to do.

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 Post subject: Re: Soy
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:57 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
My response to "OMG soy has phytoestrogens in it!" is always "You know what has actual, mammalian estrogen in it? Cow milk. If you think estrogen is such a danger, I assume you don't eat dairy, right?" And then blissful silence. Not one person has ever been able to counter that. Because it turns the tables really nicely from you having to defend yourself to them having to defend their choices, which no one wants to do.


A really close friend of mine who is generally a very logical, very science minded person was telling me the other day that she thinks she's super sensitive to estrogen because she had PMSy symptoms after eating tofu one day. She eats a lot of dairy, so, yeah... one meal with tofu in it having enough phytoestrogens in it to totally change her hormonal state seems like a big reach. It... can be hard not to get into these things with people one actually likes without coming across as just as aggressive and judgy as the other side.

Also, re: your MDC experience T, seriously who does that? That is horrible. And a mod, too.

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 Post subject: Re: Soy
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:05 pm 
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solipsistnation wrote:
Eating one's keyboard has been linked with narcolepsy, ulcers, and exploding head syndrome! Don't do it!


What? But it's soy free!!?? You mean, I cannot fry it and serve it to my kid?





I think you are wrong. I got exploding head syndrome on those forums.


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 Post subject: Re: Soy
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:59 pm 
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Lol so many responses are so funny! I avoid babycenter, justmommies, and mothering. (God the last one is the worst!)

But soy and gluten seem to be public enemy number 1 right now. And milk seems to be the miracle cure for EVERYTHING. I have had people insist that I must feed my self and my child milk and that doing so otherwise is abuse. And we both have SEVERE dairy allergies. (Not lactose intolerance, but an allergy to both when and casein) We both have an epi pen. I can always tell if dairy somehow ends up in my food when I get extreme chest pains shortly after taking one bite. And for some reason, some people don't think butter is dairy.

That sanctimommy fb page is hilarious! I especially like this one. "So my friends friend used a vibrator while she was pregnant and her fetus was born with shaken baby syndrome" lol what the fizzle!


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 Post subject: Re: Soy
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:27 pm 
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Yeah soy, gluten, sugar, and omg processed foods!!! And formula, of course.


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