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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:12 am 
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Seagull of the PPK
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FC got sent to bed at 9 for being a douche. Amazingly, she was sent to bed by her father, since the douchebagginess was disrespecting me. This is progress (for him, not for me).
She has a simulated exam today (like a SAT type thing) and she is terrified, this is the first standardized test she's ever done. I grew up when the USDoE was experimenting with standardized testing and we had it several times a year, every year. It seems so strange that she's never done it before.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:34 am 
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FC's dad is continuing to back me up. Amazing.

However, she now wants to drop out of school. At age 13. Because "i don't want to be like you mom, and i don't want to go to college." What exactly is the recommended response to this? Kelly? Kfad? Help me? Everyone else is preparing to go on easter vacation and i'm considering running away, alone.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:48 am 
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Do you think she is just pushing your buttons, to get a rise out of you? I guess the good news is that she no longer wants to go to college in Japan to become a whaler? :)

It sounds like you're at a time where it would be good to just take things day by day. She isn't leaving school now (I assume), and it sounds like she is a smart kid, who also knows how to behave in public and what is appropriate. Maybe she just needs a safe space to push and test her limits or release some tension (especially because she doesn't know what is going on with you and her Dad) or know that she is loved (Mom gets mad because she cares) and you're the safest person she has.

I think FC is a pretty wonderful kid, and I am sure she is going to turn out to be an adult you can respect, admire and love. I'm so looking forward to seeing her in July. And yay for Mr T stepping up!

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:06 am 
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T, i'm so tired of her being so rude to me, all the time. I am considering going up to visit without her just because I can't stand to be near her anymore hearing about how stupid I am, how I don't understand anything because I'm so old, having her stealing and breaking my stuff. yesterday was yet another day when i went to work and found that my wallet was empty, i was missing the hardware i needed to work, my makeup was gone from my bag.... then i need to come home and wash her clothes and do her dishes. She refuses to go to the therapy sessions that I finally set up, because therapy is for "really screwed up people like you" [another $150/hour down the drain]. Sadly, my friend who runs the Torque Sanctuary that I run away to when I can't stand any more is in the US on vacation, or I'd be out of here right now.
We've made the situation with her father and me very clear. We are working together til she is 18 and re-evaluating then. We are not fighting in the house any more. He is backing me up with her. All of which is going along much better than expected.

As for whaler school, she is a straight 65 student, there is just no way she is going to win that scholarship. She doesn't realize there are thousands of other kids who actually get above 75s who are going to blow her out of the water in the competitive exams.

We're considering taking her out of private school [which is financially killing us, but why should I be paying 12,000/year for her to get shiitake grades] and putting her in the public. Where the two girls who bullied her last year went. She was nonplussed and said she can't wait to go so she can beat the shiitake out of them and get expelled. I am just so forking tired of this.

At this age [the day after my 13th birthday, actually] my mother took me to a horse farm and got me a job shoveling poo-- smart lady. She's not legal to work here til 16, so I can't do that.
I'm so tired of us having the same damn fight since she was 7: do your homework and stop forking around or i will take away TV/computer/comics/drawing lessons/anime/cosplay/facebook/socializing. I have taken away everything and she still doesn't do the homework.
I looked at her homework last night and it was all wrong-- all of it. I tried to show her why it was wrong and she started yelling that she did it the way the teacher told her to [which was wrong, which was why the test was wrong]. Insisted that I was trying to make her fail. I showed her 100000 websites showing that this is the forking way to do it and she finally said she might let me show her but it didn't mean that i was right [is that a win or a loss? i'm not sure.].
The school asks that we don't help the kids with the homework, says they're old enough that they should be able to do it by themselves now.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:14 am 
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[i just talked to my mother the saint, who is dealing with the same exact situation with my sister. Who is 30. i told her that i really wonder nowadays why i wanted to have children, as i have pretty much failed at it so spectacularly. I was shocked to find out that she feels the same way. i am seeing my future here.]

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:51 am 
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Wow, that sounds so hard. I want to hug you T, and I hope you can get a break soon. I don't think you've failed at having children - I think this age is rough for everyone, and you have the challenge of having a co-parent who lets a lot of the weight fall on you and FC has added challenges of your marital uncertainty, and perhaps being between at least 3 cultures, with a school system that seems like it isn't very supportive towards academic achievement.

I have no idea how to make someone do something they don't want to do. But perhaps there are some things you can do to take the focus off you and restore some boundaries that safeguard your sanity. Can you put a lock on your bedroom door to stop the stealing? Could you safely walk away when she starts to fight or insult you, because clearly she isn't actually open to a real conversation at that point? Could Mr. T step up and take over checking homework for a bit or could you hire a tutor to help?

I think that there is a line between parenting her so that she is safe and taking a lot of very unkind abuse. You're lovely and you don't deserve to be treated badly. I am sorry things are so hard <3

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:53 am 
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I'm so sorry, Torque. I agree that finding ways to protect yourself/draw lines right now is the most important thing. Bad school performance is easier to make up for when she gets her head straight. She won't go to counseling, but is there anyone for you to talk to about strategies to deal with her?


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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:58 am 
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Also I've found it helpful to read up on ways to cope with a kids oppositional-defiant disorder. I don't know if that's her, but the ideas for parent boundary setting might help.


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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:55 am 
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thanks for your ideas and your help. i went for a run which reduced my anger level sufficiently for me to sit down with her again and make myself understood for the time being. i will definitely look into ODD. I also just reached out to my online expat community for some help, as i'm the only person i know with a teen, all my friends have little babies, and it was so nice to realize that others have similar issues.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:10 am 
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I am so sorry I didn't see this earlier.
I wish I had a better answer. But when my oldest (who has ADD and a anxiety issue {which both contribute to depression}) was 13 I think it was one of the toughest times for us.
For us we had to learn that he is not ever going to have a "normal" path and that security for him has a definition I still don't understand. That helped up step back from school issues and treat them with a cooler head. He is 19, still not a graduate, but employed and thinking ahead. For Doug it is about the independence and the sense that he is respected.
Please never hesitate to message me. Even if it is just to vent.

(((hugs)))

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:29 pm 
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thanks kfad.

it also occurs to me that part of this may have been my fault as well. This week was my father's birthday and for all of us in the family who miss him, it's usually a horrible week. I don't remember being particularly upset or moody but every year, on his birthday and the anniversary of his death, as well as mother's day, I always notice afterwards "god this week has been so forking hard" and then look at the calendar and say "ooooooh". Maybe FC sniffed out my vulnerability and swooped in for the kill.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:53 pm 
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I'm so sorry torque! This sounds awful. Honestly, FC sounds a ton like I was at her age. I have no idea what would have made me calm the fork down. I did try my hardest to peas my parents off. I am SO THANKFUL that Shae seems to be more like my husband and not me. I have no idea how to handle that stuff at all. I really feel for you!

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:49 am 
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Kelly wrote:
Honestly, FC sounds a ton like I was at her age. I have no idea what would have made me calm the fork down. I did try my hardest to peas my parents off.

The fact that you said this, and yet from every indication have turned out to be an EXTREMELY patient, empathetic, considerate and level-headed person makes me feel a wave of relief!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:14 am 
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I really do think hormones make you lose your mind for awhile. Hell, I still lose my mind pretty much every 28 days...

Is there anything you and FC can do together that's on her terms? Just to bond? If I sit and watch soccer videos with Shae or try to longboard with him, he seems to forget all the stuff I do to annoy him for a bit at least.


Shae and I had a fight last night because (I'm so mean) I expect him to put his trash in a trash can and laundry in a basket. Such high expectations!

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:49 am 
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OH THE HUMANITY!! hehe.

i am picking her up this afternoon for some time on our own. We have a 3-day weekend but since she now is not only an atheist (which i can respect) but now a Heckling Atheist, we won't be doing anything easter or good-friday related. Supposed to rain, so beach is out. so just hanging around around town.
We will be doing such predictables as hitting the beauty supply store [need my gallon of cheap shampoo], getting photos to replace my alien card, and trying to find a new hair salon.

I am also making hot cross buns tomorrow, to go along with my traditions.... also need to find some way to make hot cross buns acceptable to the Heckler. Hot X buns? Hot intersection buns? Or my favorite: if-you-can't-at-least-be-decent-you-cannot-have-any-christian-icing-and-have-to-eat-them-dry buns. Hehe, i'm cruising for trouble.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:52 am 
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also, an update on the rest: my husband told her that he was blocking her from the computer til she started getting better grades (this has been unilateral til now). FC came to me yesterday and said that she thought it was fair and she deserved it. so far, so good.
the big test will be when the next anime convention is (about 3 or 4 weeks if i'm not mistaken). And when the math test finally gets returned [she took it like a month ago, i do not understand how it can take so long.]

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:03 pm 
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torque wrote:
I am also making hot cross buns tomorrow, to go along with my traditions.... also need to find some way to make hot cross buns acceptable to the Heckler. Hot X buns? Hot intersection buns? Or my favorite: if-you-can't-at-least-be-decent-you-cannot-have-any-christian-icing-and-have-to-eat-them-dry buns. Hehe, i'm cruising for trouble.


Give her a piping bag and have her decorate her own. And don't bat an eye if she makes devils horns and anime chicks :)

I hope that some time together can help you connect again. You're doing the right thing, and I hope it is easier now that your husband is clearly on board and not dismissing your efforts.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:24 pm 
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Kfad, not to butt in here, but I just read the bit about your son not graduating. Has he considers a GED? If he did ok in school, I'm sure he could pass pretty quickly. The main reason I bring this up is that the GeD is changing in January. It will be more expensive and a lot harder, so if doing it now is a possibility, I hope he goes for it. When I say a lot harder, I mean it: instead of a multiple choice question about a science experiment they describe, the student will have to write a paragraph designing the experiment. A lot of people will not be able to pass the new one.

I am teaching GED right now, so if you have any questions, please message me.

(we are all pretty pissed about this. Typical government: huge cuts to adult education, and crepe economy, so they change the GeD to exclude more people, drive up the costs a lot by contracting with a new for profit company for new tests)

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:32 pm 
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LW, that is crazy!

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:38 pm 
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Not crazy--expected. They've done it with the state tests too. New standards, new "rigorous" test format all in the same year teachers are now evaluated based on student test scores.

But, anyway. If you need a GED, sooner rather than later is in your clear best interests.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:16 pm 
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Here's our current deal. This could be long.

TRS is in Seattle's APP program. That's the "accelerated progress program," so, yeah, he's in the accelerated progress program program. He's been in it since 1st grade. He starts middle school (6th grade) next year, and because he scored above the threshold on Seattle's so-called MAP test, he could go into algebra next year or regular 8th grade math. Algebra is the tougher one.

Mrs. Face and I (and parents of other prospective 6th grade algebrats*) went to a meeting with the principal and some teachers. They reminded us about all the adjustments in store for these kids and let us know that algebra might not be the best fit for our kids. Lots of work, lots of pressure, lots of difficult middle school stuff, and with this more difficult class added to the mix, we might be overloading the kids. Some kids can handle it, some can't. The adjustment to middle school is a soft landing for some kids and a hard landing for others.

Now, TRS is a smart cookie. I have no doubt he could handle the tougher material. But he is not a self-starter. He is not an independent kid who's up for any challenge. He gets frustrated easily and he's prone to anxiety. And if a sixth-grader takes algebra, by the time they're done with their sophomore year in high school, they've finished calculus. At which point, they've still go two years of math in front of them. They can do Running Start for two years (going to a community college for a class every day, or whatever, for college credit). And even if they're in sixth grade, their algebra grades count. They go on their official transcripts. (Because it's like 9th grade material? I don't know. I don't really get it.)

So while we're listening to the teachers, we're both thinking, "He should go into math 8, not algebra. Let's not sabotage this kid." After the meeting, Mrs. Face stuck around to talk with TRS's current teacher. She said TRS was one of the few kids in her class who she thought should be in algebra.

I'm confused. It seems to me that the risk of putting him in a class that's just too much for him is greater than the potential reward. TRS has a natural facility with numbers. He grasps new mathematical concepts easily. But he's not a real "math kid." He claims not to enjoy math class, and it's not like he's always challenging himself to take on more and more difficult material. So what would he really be missing by waiting until 7th grade to take algebra.

Oh, but if his best friend takes algebra he says he'll want to. I don't think that's enough of a reason. I don't think it's up to him, but that only makes it harder.

*I am awesome.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:45 pm 
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What a nice vote of confidence! Hurrah for TRS! I think with kids that aren't self-starters, it can make sense to put them into more challenging classes, because they'll float with whichever group you give them - either the faster or the slower group. My sister skipped so many grades of math, and it gave her a real sense of confidence in her ability, which took her very far. If the math group doesn't work out, its easier to transfer down and say he is just going back to his peers instead of that he failed, but that might not be true for TRS... And I think at the end of the day, it probably depends a lot on what TRS wants and what he feels comfortable with.

Just my non-tween having 2c :)

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Last edited by Tofulish on Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:48 pm 
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That's really tricky, Footie. My opinion going into middle school was to take the hardest classes offered, but now that Shae is leaving middle school, and having been through how rough middle school was for him and all of his friends (all high level kids), I would say to put Algebra off. The stress is just a lot. The transition to Middle School is a lot bigger of a deal than I could have ever imagined.

But I also would be super stoked for TRS that his teacher feels he's capable so I'd have a hard time making this decision too. Good luck, guys!

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:52 pm 
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I can only speak for myself here, but as a not-terribly-self-motivated person, I've always done best in academic environments that leaned towards too challenging over not challenging enough.


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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:06 pm 
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As a teacher, I say start him in Algebra and monitor closely. At the first signs of stress or other negatives, get him moved to math 8. Get the counselor on board with this plan immediately, in writing, if possible (even if it's just an email). This way you can throw it back at them if they try to whine about schedule changes later. For reasons I don't understand, teachers spend all their time complaining about non contact parents and admin etc send all their time complaining that parents do contact them.

Moving mid year or after first semester is totally no big deal. I've had kids who do it all the time and they adjust. Even when they weren't even taking my class at their old school.

As a teacher who has subbed at the middle school level, can I also say that the environment in the algebra classes is MUCH different than the math 7/8 classes. Fewer behavior problems, a lot less crepe. And usually smaller classes. I don't know if this necessarily applies, but if so, he could have a better social fit in the algebra class.

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