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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:07 pm 
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ugh torque you have no idea - my siblings all went to schools that called your home the same day when you didn't show up, but my parents didn't find out I was skipping school until a notice got sent home which said I hadn't been to homeroom in 62 days! I suppose because it was a school for 7th thru 12th grades for the gifted that they expected you to really take advantage of your education and ya know, show up, but I apparently didn't "get" that.


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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:14 pm 
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as a high school teacher, may i just say that the 62 day warning sounds a tiny bit too lenient to be effective!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:51 pm 
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My husband used to get 100s on math tests, but refused to do any homework (because, he reasoned, homework is for teaching you material, and he knew the material), so he nearly failed all his way through high school. That whole thing about teaching kids that sometimes you have to do stuff that you don't want to do is going to be a real problem down the line with our kids, I can tell.


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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:52 pm 
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I looks like we (and TRS) are choosing to opt out of algebra and put him in math 8 next year. Most of his friends will be in math 8, too, and we learned that being in algebra might mean he'd be having lunch with 7th graders, and not his 6th grade friends. Just sounds like too much adjustment—and the whole transcript thing has me wigged out. Math 8 will do just fine, I think.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:11 pm 
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That sounds like a really solid plan. Also, 6th grade! Holy cow.


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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:13 pm 
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Ooh, he is only 6th grade?! Good choice then. I question whether 6th graders are developmentally ready for algebra to any meaningful degree. Some kids probably are, but I suspect many just don't had the brain development for more abstract thinking yet.

Also, great plan on the lunch. I've gone to and worked at elementary schools that go to 6th and middle schools that do 6-8 and it is so much better for the kids to stay in the younger set.

I thought he was going into 7th.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:03 pm 
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FootFace wrote:
I looks like we (and TRS) are choosing to opt out of algebra and put him in math 8 next year. Most of his friends will be in math 8, too, and we learned that being in algebra might mean he'd be having lunch with 7th graders, and not his 6th grade friends. Just sounds like too much adjustment—and the whole transcript thing has me wigged out. Math 8 will do just fine, I think.

Toby is in pre-algebra and combined with the switch to middle school, it is enough. Sixth grade is a huge adjustment in and of itself.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:39 am 
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lavawitch wrote:
Ooh, he is only 6th grade?! Good choice then. I question whether 6th graders are developmentally ready for algebra to any meaningful degree. Some kids probably are, but I suspect many just don't had the brain development for more abstract thinking yet.

Also, great plan on the lunch. I've gone to and worked at elementary schools that go to 6th and middle schools that do 6-8 and it is so much better for the kids to stay in the younger set.

I thought he was going into 7th.


Eh, I actually think that's a better age for algebra....but ya know, Montessori style.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:10 pm 
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Algebra concepts, sure, but the full course, and grasp everything enough to have a solid foundation for advanced math? Math tends to be taught like crepe these days anyway; it's all calculators. My students can't do simple arithmetic without crying and having a meltdown for a calculator. I had a simple density problem on a test. I deliberately used "neat" numbers so it was a super easy problem (like dividing 18 by 3) and more than half the students left it blank because I wouldn't let them use a calculator and they (said they) couldn't do the math. I wish I were making this up, but since the state tests are all calculator based, that's what they do.

I went to Montessori schools until my parents couldn't afford it any longer. It was awesome.

My GED students have to learn to use calculators quickly for the tests. It's the opposite problem!

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:42 pm 
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The state tests are calculator based? Times have changed. We had calculators in high school but weren't allowed to use them on standardized tests (aside from the SAT). And then the GRE was (is it still?) calculator-free. I tutored several friends for the math section who couldn't do arithmetic, let alone simple trig without a calculator (might not have been able to do trig with a calculator either, but that's another story).


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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:53 pm 
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I'm sure this varies by state. The algebra tests are calculator allowed.

When I subbed math, it seemed that from 7th grade on, all math was calculator based. I was really shocked. The kids don't develope good number sense, and, worse, they don't think they can do math without electronics.

The GED has a section without calculator, and one with. They are both brutally times. Most of my students struggle terribly with the time limits because they can do the math, just not as instantly. An extra 10 minutes, would double the pass rate.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:54 pm 
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That's really sad.


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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:59 pm 
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My math classes in college didn't allow calculators. We had to do the most tedious calculations out by hand in linear algebra. We could use graphing calculators for selected bits in differential equations, but that was rare. Multi variable had a prof as rabidly anti-calculator as I am. It was awesome.

If these kids take calculus at the community college here, they won't be allowed calculators either, and it will be a shock to them.

Didn't mean to highjacked! I'm not even really a math teacher since my curriculum doesn't really use math much (it's supposed to use advanced algebra sometimes, but since the district simultaneously expects thus and gives me students trying to pass basic algebra for graduation despite that being below my supposed course prerqs, I'm not sure what they expect)

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:58 pm 
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Why would you even need a calculator in advanced math classes like that? Thinking back, most of my professors just used a, b, c, and clarified that they were numerical constants (or not) to save us time doing arithmetic that was not relevant to the concepts at hand.

I tend to think that we spend way too much time in elementary education dithering over arithmetic. I'd prefer to see more abstract concepts introduced early, instead of "let's do this arithmetic with one digit numbers." "ooh, now we'll try the same thing with TWO digit numbers!" "Hey look, more of the same, with THREE digit numbers!!" etc. Especially since all that base ten stuff doesn't serve you very well if you move on in life and have no good sense for doing arithmetic in other number bases quickly.


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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:28 pm 
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lavawitch wrote:
I'm sure this varies by state. The algebra tests are calculator allowed.

When I subbed math, it seemed that from 7th grade on, all math was calculator based. I was really shocked. The kids don't develope good number sense, and, worse, they don't think they can do math without electronics.

The GED has a section without calculator, and one with. They are both brutally times. Most of my students struggle terribly with the time limits because they can do the math, just not as instantly. An extra 10 minutes, would double the pass rate.

I took Algebra in 8th grade at a school with not a lot of resources. We didn't have calculators because the school couldn't afford to buy them for us and the students mostly couldn't afford them either. Calculators were allowed for the end of the year test, so we all shared one ti-82 calculator. The calculator was so new to us that no one even realized how easy it would be to cheat that way. (Note, half of this advanced math class failed the test, though that has more to do with the teacher's classroom management than anything else.)


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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:54 pm 
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That's my point really--all this reliance on calculators makes math very concrete and limits learning broader applications.

I woud expect this to get worse because abstract concepts are not as easily (and inexpensively) tested as very specific number skills. It's all about the testing.

As a parent, I would be super concerned about how NCLB is shaping elementary and middle schools. In my district, we have money and resources, and power compared to many, but even so, in the feeder schools to my HS, kids aren't getting science or social studies to any real degree until 8th grade now because they aren't federally mandated to be tested until then. They "integrate" those subjects with math and English, but in practice, they get left off the table in favor or math and English remediation. The wealthier schools down the street don't have this issue, so we have kids with drastically different science backgrounds just based on which street they live on. I would for sure check out elementary and middle school science fairs at a prospective school to see how much science education the kids truly get. As a science teacher, this depresses and scares me.

The first diff EQ class I took was all engineering students and we could use calculators, but I couldn't afford to buy the $200 model everybody had, so I switched to another section. It was up to the professor, I guess.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:22 am 
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I have been so busy/preoccupied I haven't even popped in to the PPK in over a week. Tried to help my son with his math this morning - gr. 8 algebra. Son says, That's not the way we do it. I say, Here is an algebraic expression of the problem, can you put it in the form the teacher wants it? (he had explained it out to me and defined the variables, etc.) Son stomps away and puts on headphones, mom hasn't slept much and had fight with other son late last night, has a mini meltdown in the kitchen (I do all this work and everyone hates me self-pity, just for a few minutes).

I detest junior high. His dad and I are both good at math and all three boys have an easy time with math concepts, but dealing with the school and the teaching methods is a pain. With my other two we did Singapore Math at that age and it worked well.


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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:03 pm 
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i feel for you, arisaig. not only do they do math differently [like, really differently] here, the teacher says that the parents shouldn't help the kids!! so when she's forked, she's REALLY forked. i am not happy with the situation.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:06 pm 
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I haven't seen my kids for more than 10 minutes a day for the last three weeks.
THis is both good and bad.
My house is full of teen mess. And never EVER underestimate the size of teen mess. It becomes sentient.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:13 am 
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What do you think, people?

Am I a terrible person for not letting my kid go to a facebook meetup picnic of anime people, on the patio of an art museum [without museum permission, so you know they'll get kicked off]? She is 13. She doesn't know any of these people IRL. She supposedly has a friend going with her but so far the friend's parents have not called me to talk about it. She says I am "too obsessed with security" and that i don't trust her although obviously I don't trust the creepy adults that always seem to be lurking in the wings of these things [nothing wrong with anime, or cosplay, but there is always a large contingent, at least here, of adult men trying to pick up girls or pretending-to-be-girls]. I think she's an entitled little whiner. I also don't have time for this crepe today.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:38 am 
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I think more parents should be such terrible people.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:03 am 
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thanks for the vote of confidence. it makes me feel better amidst the door slamming and sobs.

oh the drama.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:17 am 
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Yikes! I find the fetishization of school girls so troubling. A friend of mine is Japanese and says when she was 12 (and a school girl in Japan), men started to approach her when she was in her school uniform, to ask to trade sexual contact for presents. It isn't just Japan either, there is a documentary about the fetishization of pre-teens and early teens in black neighborhoods in Oakland.

I would think that letting a 13 year old go to meet a bunch of people she doesn't know, unaccompanied, would be an unacceptable risk level for me. Could you go with her?

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:30 am 
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T, she doesn't want people to see us drop her off, she's reached that stage of being embarrassed. I don't think me going with is a possibility. There is also the fact that I am working this weekend. ack.

I just reminded her of the case a few years ago of a girl meeting up with a guy from FB and being found later in a suitcase in the bus station. I take precautions when I meet people from the internet, because you just never know. I hate to be heavy-handed with this stuff but she thinks she's 18, and she isn't even capable of making her own bed.

I am right grumpy now, locked in my office, taking a break from work. Thank god for this office. Mr T should be home around noon and he owes me one, so this is entirely his problem when he gets home.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey, let's complain about our teens/tweens!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:41 am 
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Ya know, when there was something sketch like this that I just really really had to do as a teen, I put up with my parents being there. If it's feasible, I'd offer to go with her, and if she wants to go that badly, she'll agree.


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