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 Post subject: proposed Italian law banning kids from being vegan
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:09 pm 
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so this has been making the rounds on the interwebs.

http://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/lifestyle/parents-who-feed-kids-vegan-diet-may-risk-jail-italy-n627986

this is really upsetting to me because it is one of my (not so secret) fears that someone somehwere will find out BP is basically a vegan and blame all her eating problems on that. she's unbelievably tiny and all bone so im terrified that one day someone will decide it's because she's predominantly vegan is why she's so small and will call DSS on me and have my kid taken away from me.

the thing that really irritates me about this is though they dont mention this specific story i remember there was a big deal about some vegan parents who gave their infant almond milk instead of formula and i think the baby died. that's not veganism. that's gross negligence and just complete idiocy. there are also people who give their babies raw cows milk instead of formula but no one is proposing a law to ban those whackos. it just feels like a misdirected law.

ive been lucky. i am honest with all the many health professionals ive taken her to. i dont typical say BP is vegan i usually say something like "im a vegan so i feed her a predominantly plant based diet with a small amount of dairy" or something like that. what that translates to is occasionally she has a granola bar with a trace amount of dairy in it or one time my dad gave her a few bites of regular ice cream cake. and she also likes Dunkin Donuts muffins which arent vegan. typically they are pretty impressed with my knowledge of nutrition and it's well documented her issues are behavioral and sensory based but i still have deep paranoia over it and sometimes wonder if i just cooked her some chicken if she would just forking eat it. (though she will eat tofu or quinoa sometimes so it's not so much protein she is lacking, just general consumption of calories and vegetables too like any self respecting 3 year old)

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 Post subject: Re: proposed Italian law banning kids from being vegan
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:28 pm 
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LisaPunk wrote:
this is really upsetting to me because it is one of my (not so secret) fears that someone somehwere will find out BP is basically a vegan and blame all her eating problems on that. she's unbelievably tiny and all bone so im terrified that one day someone will decide it's because she's predominantly vegan is why she's so small and will call DSS on me and have my kid taken away from me.

And it's not an unfounded fear because they totally play the blame game like that. Beet had a birth defect -- goofy legs (which are fine now with no intervention) -- and they totally acted like it was my fault because I didn't give him dairy. I mean, seriously, as soon as they noticed, they were all over our dairy-free evil diet.
And earlier when I joked, "he likes books so much, he eats paper!" They wigged out on me and acted like he had pica from my beef-deficient diet. *eyeroll*

I mean, eventually, they dropped the vegan hate fest, but it took ages and it's a very understandable paranoia because the first time anything goes wrong, they are finger pointing and letting the vegan witch hunt begin.

I recently took a course on Health and Nutrition. Not because I needed it, but because I can wave it in the faces of the naysayers. (I didn't actually learn anything from it because I knew a lot already from all the reading I've done over the years.)

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 Post subject: Re: proposed Italian law banning kids from being vegan
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:42 pm 
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My primary care doctor still can't help herself from telling me that it's easier for me to get iron from meat even though she knows full well that I can't absorb iron from food OR supplements. It's like a knee jerk reaction. She last mentioned it when referring me out for my iron infusions.

She is good about it otherwise and never says anything, even about the b12. I get shots because I can't absorb that from food or supplements either.

I think a lot of doctors just have it on a loop in their head and don't a;ply any critical thinking skills to it.

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 Post subject: Re: proposed Italian law banning kids from being vegan
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:05 pm 
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reading about this makes me depressed. i don't have nor want kids, but my older relatives love telling me when i get married and have kids, i'm going to have to give up the vegan thing and cook meat for my husband and kids (LOL) because guys need to eat meat. anyways i hate that stuff like this just supports that idea and gets visibility even though there is literally no nutritional/scientific basis. I'm trying to find the italian food guidelines, but it would be nice to know what they suggest to counter this (eg. i know the canadian and american dietician associations say a well-planned plant based diet is suitable for all stages of life).


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 Post subject: Re: proposed Italian law banning kids from being vegan
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:10 pm 
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postnothing wrote:
reading about this makes me depressed. i don't have nor want kids, but my older relatives love telling me when i get married and have kids, i'm going to have to give up the vegan thing and cook meat for my husband and kids (LOL) because guys need to eat meat. anyways i hate that stuff like this just supports that idea and gets visibility even though there is literally no nutritional/scientific basis. I'm trying to find the italian food guidelines, but it would be nice to know what they suggest to counter this (eg. i know the canadian and american dietician associations say a well-planned plant based diet is suitable for all stages of life).


My grandmother actually took my husband aside and offered to cook him meat behind my back since obviously I was forbidding him to eat it. Nevermind that he was vegetarian all his life before he went vegan, so, unless I was forcing him not to eat meat before I was born...

My parents health visitor told them that my brothers would never grow on a vegetarian diet, they are both over six foot five now and joke that they are pleased they were given this awful veggie diet as otherwise they would be giants!

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 Post subject: Re: proposed Italian law banning kids from being vegan
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:26 pm 
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Nobody gives me grief because my kid is 98th percentile and huge. But when I was pregnant I was so scared that if something were wrong it would be blamed on my diet.

This post isn't that helpful. Other than saying people are judgy jerks. And if I fed my kid nothing but McNuggets nobody would say boo. But because we don't eat animals OMG that's the worst thing ever.

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 Post subject: Re: proposed Italian law banning kids from being vegan
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:01 pm 
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i feel fortunate that all the health professionals she has seen have had a brain and was more concerned she was getting the right nutrients and not how she got them.

i had my own physical recently and my dr is also BP's pediatrician and she asked me about my diet and i reminded her i was a vegan and she asked me if i was a french fries and pasta vegan :-P and once i told her that i did indeed eat fruits and grains and protein she asked me if BP ate dairy and was fine when i told her no but that she ate all the plant equivalents like soy milk, soy yogurt, coconut ice cream, etc.

it's so ridiculous when so many omni kids live on chicken nuggets, hot dogs, and goldfish crackers.

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 Post subject: Re: proposed Italian law banning kids from being vegan
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 2:21 am 
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LisaPunk wrote:
it's so ridiculous when so many omni kids live on chicken nuggets, hot dogs, and goldfish crackers.

The nurse that gave Vax his wellness check last year said the same thing. She had mentioned that it said in our notes that we are vegan and I showed her a little food diary I'd made and she said it was so nice to see a kid eating a variety of foods and not just chicken nuggets every day! That was a pleasant surprise.

vixki wrote:
My parents health visitor told them that my brothers would never grow on a vegetarian diet, they are both over six foot five now and joke that they are pleased they were given this awful veggie diet as otherwise they would be giants!

This is so funny because my husband and his 3 sisters were raised vegetarian. I was raised a meat eater (and am even shorter than my mum) and all 3 of my husband's 'little' sisters are at least 6 inches taller than I am!

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 Post subject: Re: proposed Italian law banning kids from being vegan
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:51 pm 
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It really is absurd when "professionals" say "make them eat plants" and then when you do that really really well all the time every day they suddenly back peddle in fear and want to tell you all about the evils of your choices and vilify plants. Every time there's a vegan parent who doesn't take care of their kids nutritional needs, you'd think that a bomb going off in a heavily crowded area is the only way to equate the evilness of their actions. Terrorism through plants. The media is absurd! How come they never mention anything about the MANY more children in similar poor nutritional situations where the diet wasn't vegan? And can we get some freaking statistics about how often this happens between vegan parents/children and non-vegan parents/non-vegan children so we can see some balanced data on if one group seems to do a better job of not creating nightmarish nutrition conditions than the other? /rant

I will happily no longer purchase extra virgin olive oil from Italy if it means I now purchase extra virgin olive oil from Spain. Not that my buying habbits will make a difference but a country that mandates how every person in it must eat is taking away freedom and to say "you must eat this certain way and no differently" well that's kind of fascist. But this IS Italy and they have some pretty strong roots with fascism over there...


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 Post subject: Re: proposed Italian law banning kids from being vegan
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:20 pm 
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There is a petition against the new law. I don't know how much effect it will have but it might still be worth signing.
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/en-gb/12 ... act-diets/

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 Post subject: Re: proposed Italian law banning kids from being vegan
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:54 pm 
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By HSUS? Wayne Pacelle practically has a cape and is a super hero. I bet he could fly over there on his own and get this mess fixed.


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 Post subject: Re: proposed Italian law banning kids from being vegan
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 2:43 am 
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From what I've read, it's pretty much just one politician spearheading the campaign, probably to raise her profile, and it's really unlikely it will pass.

I'm half Italian and when I go over to visit relatives, people seem to get the vegan thing way more than other places, as they eat lots of veggies and legumes... and pasta, of course!

They all say "oh... that's really good... really healthy" (I decline to mention that I don't do it for health and eat plenty of "unhealthy" stuff.

Obviously it's just anecdotal evidence, but the majority of Italian folks don't seem to think it's diet that's deficient in nutrients.

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 Post subject: Re: proposed Italian law banning kids from being vegan
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:45 am 
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Disappearing Ink wrote:
From what I've read, it's pretty much just one politician spearheading the campaign, probably to raise her profile, and it's really unlikely it will pass.


Exactly what I've been thinking. I read so many US sorces on this and nobody seemed to be interested in looking into the Italian and/or European political system. They were blowing it out of proportion. I know this is not what Lisa's original post is about, but I also think that there's no way this will pass.


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