| Register  | FAQ  | Search | Login 
It is currently Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:40 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Tell me about daycare (hold my haaaaand!)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:59 pm 
Offline
Wears Durian Helmet
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:16 am
Posts: 874
Location: NJ
soooooooo... yeah.

I go back to work in two weeks. (NOOOOOOOOOOO!) *insert sobbing sounds*

Happily, my parents are coming to watch Little S. Whee!
This is because *whispers* I am quitting my job shortly thereafter. I am going back short term to wrap up 1-2 long term projects and then giving notice.
I am going to start looking a little right away, and do things like update my resume and write some practice cover letters. Starting to apply for jobs in earnest after the first of the year.

That means sometime in the first few months of 2016 (if I'm lucky job search wise) I will need real, non-grandparent daycare.

AHHHHHHH.

I don't know why but I'm totally freaked out about this. I have appointments to look at 2 places next week. Just looking them up and reading reviews made me feel like barfing. AHHHH. WHY DO THEY ALL HAVE TERRIBLE SCARY REVIEWS??? Literally 100% of the infant daycare options in my town have at least 1 terrible review. UGH. And the place I liked the best just from like, locations and looking at their websites, has no openings until June. (JUNE. what the fizzle. so people were apparently not kidding about signing up for a spot around the time of your first ultrasound. BARF.)

I know, lots of people put their kids in daycare, and it's fine, and nobody barfs or dies (well, beyond normal baby barf. like, no one barfs from anxiety and inability to handle it.) and I am just being a huge baby.

So please tell me happy stories about finding a daycare you loved and the people were nice and your baby loved it and they did not leave your baby in a bouncy seat for 3 hours a day or call you to leave work because their poopy diaper leaked or yell at you for bringing in fewer than 11 bibs (*all insane scary things brought to you by actual reviews of daycare in my area. SERIOUSLY.).

Also what kinds of questions should I ask and what should I look for at my tours next week? Anything beyond the obvious questions I should think about?


Also wish me luck finding a job with takehome pay > daycare cost because if I stayed at my current job it would apparently pay for HALF of daycare, which... ha. hahahahahahaha. HAAA. right.

_________________
...I am an opinionated prick not a problem solver. -matwinser

Now I remember why I try to keep a continent between me and New Jersey at all times. -torque


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tell me about daycare (hold my haaaaand!)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:25 pm 
Offline
Dislikes Rick Santorum
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:51 am
Posts: 7770
Location: United States of New England
good luck Mack. i dont have any good advice for you because im a SAHM because my entire salary for my job i hated would have paid for daycare BUT the one tiny thing i wanted to say is about reviews.

whenever i look at reviews for ANYTHING i always feel you have to keep in mind there are always THOSE PEOPLE.
the ones that literally complain about anything and everything. and the parents that are crazy pants.
obviously reviews for a daycare is a bit more of a serious thing than saying looking at something on amazon or vacation reviews but i still think it applies.

im sure people can give you lots of smart things to look for and ask about and your gut feeling when you visit a place will be big too.

the only thing i can think would be good to ask is about their vaccination policy wherever you go and then thinking about what your own personal beliefs on that is. for example would you want a daycare that let people who dont vaccinate their kids go there?
stuff like that. obviously the answer to that would be your own personal beliefs.

_________________
Unimpressed Baby Blog


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tell me about daycare (hold my haaaaand!)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:26 pm 
Offline
Not a creepy cheese pocket person
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:17 pm
Posts: 4720
Location: Austin
We love our daycare. They're great with the kids. Lots of attention and activities, but not too structured. We get weekly or daily reports on what the kids are doing. The only time they call us is if Jonah is really sick (a fever or throwing up) or if he bumps his head on something (they're legally required to report it).

Things we looked for were curriculum, even though that's not super relevant for tiny babies. But we wanted lots of play for older kids.

Vaccinations. We wanted a place that required them. If you're anti-vax, you'll want the opposite.

Food policies. We preferred places where they'll allow a modified diet and preferably if we can bring all or most of the food. Some places require that kids drink cow's milk every day unless you get an excuse note from your doctor. Or that everyone shares food. The place we ended up with is pescetarian and has no problem with soy milk instead of dairy and other subs like that.

Hours, sick day policy, holidays (some places close a lot), whether babies are fed on demand or on a schedule, daily routine.

And then if you can, ask a few employees how long they've worked there. High turnover is a bad sign.

But I think the biggest thing is asking other people for recommendations rather than looking at reviews. Those always skew negative, and you never know if someone is greatly exaggerating a problem.

_________________
www.tacocleanse.ccom


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tell me about daycare (hold my haaaaand!)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:40 pm 
Offline
Should Spend More Time Helping the Animals
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:49 pm
Posts: 6078
Location: Toronto, ON
Mack I have no advice but I have sympathy hugs! The day cares around here have year long wait lists for infant care so I went through the tour thing awhile ago while still pregnant and it was hard...I had no idea what to ask or look for!

_________________
I like my bagels like I like my men - big and covered with earth balance & nooch. - Bunniee

http://veganforthewin.wordpress.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tell me about daycare (hold my haaaaand!)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:03 pm 
Offline
***LIES!!!***
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:10 pm
Posts: 4867
Molly's list is good. Also, they should have an open door policy. It should be okay for you to pop in whenever to see your baby/nurse.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tell me about daycare (hold my haaaaand!)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 9:02 pm 
Offline
Wears Durian Helmet
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:16 am
Posts: 874
Location: NJ
thanks, all! Lots of good stuff to add to the list! Tomorrow/Monday I'm printing out the policies/applications/info packets for the places that have them online, and I'll print out some questions/talking points too.

The recommendations thing is tough, I don't know many people in my town and no moms of infants. My neighbors that have young kids have slightly older (3 and 5 ish) and I think she's a SAHM. Other neighbors all have college or adult kids. Maybe I'll try asking around at church.

_________________
...I am an opinionated prick not a problem solver. -matwinser

Now I remember why I try to keep a continent between me and New Jersey at all times. -torque


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tell me about daycare (hold my haaaaand!)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 9:19 pm 
Offline
Dying from Nooch Lung
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:12 pm
Posts: 3357
Location: The North
I worked at a daycare for a while earlier this year, and I'd highly recommend stopping in at a random time before you commit to a daycare. Popping in unannounced will give you an idea of what the place is like when they aren't trying to impress you. (The place I worked was a shiitake show that tried to look put together for new families)

I'd also recommend asking about or looking online for any license certification violations because at least in my state the state website shows the violation and how the agency corrected it, so you can get an idea of how they handle things.

I definitely second (third? fourth?) about asking about turnover rates as well!
Good luck!

_________________
sometimes, I see a really cute woman and I'm so excited I poop myself ~ Olives


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tell me about daycare (hold my haaaaand!)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:20 pm 
Offline
Not a creepy cheese pocket person
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:17 pm
Posts: 4720
Location: Austin
Almost all of my recommendations came from coworkers, a local Facebook parenting group, and the neighborhood listserv.

_________________
www.tacocleanse.ccom


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tell me about daycare (hold my haaaaand!)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 12:04 am 
Offline
Mispronounces Daiya
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:00 am
Posts: 1445
Sorry I don't have much advice, but in the past three years I've had at least ten people tell me that it makes them so sad that "parents" (meaning mothers) "aren't raising their own kids" but are sending their kids to daycare while they work. I just want to say fork that, I work and am also raising my kid and she is awesome and your kid will be, too! Good luck!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tell me about daycare (hold my haaaaand!)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 12:16 am 
Offline
WELFARIST!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:58 pm
Posts: 5124
Location: Santa Cruz whoop whoop
Mack the Spork wrote:
I don't know why but I'm totally freaked out about this. I have appointments to look at 2 places next week. Just looking them up and reading reviews made me feel like barfing. AHHHH. WHY DO THEY ALL HAVE TERRIBLE SCARY REVIEWS??? Literally 100% of the infant daycare options in my town have at least 1 terrible review. UGH. And the place I liked the best just from like, locations and looking at their websites, has no openings until June. (JUNE. what the fizzle. so people were apparently not kidding about signing up for a spot around the time of your first ultrasound. BARF.)


All the daycares have terrible reviews because everyone has different criteria. You should be able to tell by reading the reviews and visiting the place whether it's a valid review or not-- the usual rule of thumb is to cut off the 1-star reviews and the 5-star reviews and go by the 2-to-4-star reviews. Some people have a bone to pick or some kind of grudge and will post crappy reviews. Usually they stand out... (Unless there are more 1-star reviews than anything else, and then maybe watch out.)

We looked at a bunch of different daycares before finding one we were comfortable with. One wasn't bad but was secretly very religious (like, we wouldn't have bothered going for the visit if we'd know that beforehand), one was okay inside but had a sort of weird giant concrete box for an outdoor play area, and one had a nice outdoor area and friendly, involved teachers (day-care people, most of whom were working on teaching degrees or already had some kind of child care training). It was more expensive than the others, but the others were all weird in some way, so that's the one we went with. Five years later, the first kid has graduated to kindergarten, and the second is working his way up and has another 2 years before he'll move to public school.

There will be weird days at dropoff-- our kids both started off being really unhappy _at_ dropoff, but if I hung around outside and peeked back in, they were both happily playing with other kids within 5 minutes of me being out of sight. The second kid, who is generally less social, plays it like a game now-- I'll walk him in, give him hugs, attempt to talk him into some show of affection (kiss on the cheek, whatever, I don't push it and sometimes I get a hug and kiss and sometimes I don't) and then he likes to be physically picked up and handed off to one of the daycare teachers-- it used to be that he'd weep and reach for me and break my heart every day, but now he's laughing and stuff and looks like he's really having a blast being handed around. I dunno, kids are weird. In the past 2 weeks, he's started running off on his own to play at dropoff time, and I think that's pretty great. I love him, but I want him to be happy playing with other kids on his own, and I think he's finally grown into that.

So yeah-- there WILL be days when you feel like the worst person ever for leaving your beloved child somewhere with other people, but overall that can be a really good developmental helper for them, and should help them learn some independence and that they can be their own little people. Even as my kids have gotten older, they're still happy to see me after a day apart, but now they like to tell me what they've been doing, and it's a happy reunion.

It'll be hard for you sometimes. Be prepared. You AND your child will ultimately be better for it. And maybe yours will be like our older kid, who got really social really fast and as soon as he could run off on his own to play with other kids started doing so pretty much as soon as we'd set him down at daycare-- I had to wave him down for a goodbye hug. Now that he's in kindergarten he still forgets sometimes...

_________________
"Trolling an internet message board, The Greatest Activism Of All." - pandacookie
Вы такие сексапильные, когда злитесь


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tell me about daycare (hold my haaaaand!)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 12:18 am 
Offline
WELFARIST!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:58 pm
Posts: 5124
Location: Santa Cruz whoop whoop
mooo wrote:
Sorry I don't have much advice, but in the past three years I've had at least ten people tell me that it makes them so sad that "parents" (meaning mothers) "aren't raising their own kids" but are sending their kids to daycare while they work. I just want to say fork that, I work and am also raising my kid and she is awesome and your kid will be, too! Good luck!


Yeah. Some people NEED to work or do intellectually strenuous stuff to feel like themselves, or like people, or whatever. (I'm not talking about myself, either. I sometimes wish we were in the position for me to be a house-husband, although I bet I'd get bored after like a month...)

Everyone does it their own way. Don't let the class-trash-talkers get you down.

_________________
"Trolling an internet message board, The Greatest Activism Of All." - pandacookie
Вы такие сексапильные, когда злитесь


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tell me about daycare (hold my haaaaand!)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:19 pm 
Offline
Wears Durian Helmet
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:16 am
Posts: 874
Location: NJ
Thanks again! This is all very helpful + comforting.

I'll see if there's a local parenting group I can reach out to for recommendations. So far I've only found 3 places in town I want to look at, and one is full for infants so I'll have to start looking in nearby towns.

An update on the reviews situation/probably why I'm so freaked - the places around here I've looked at so far either have NO reviews, or only 1 or 2. Once place has exactly one five start incredibly glowing, "my kid probably never would have learned to walk and talk if not for the unicorns caring for him here" review, and exactly one one star, horrible "my kid was neglected here the day I spent all day watching the parent cams online and almost died repeatedly until I called and yelled at them" review. *sigh*. hahaha.

_________________
...I am an opinionated prick not a problem solver. -matwinser

Now I remember why I try to keep a continent between me and New Jersey at all times. -torque


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tell me about daycare (hold my haaaaand!)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:26 pm 
Offline
***LIES!!!***
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:10 pm
Posts: 4867
Basically every town in NJ has a Facebook crabby moms group that will give you a million suggestions and lots of opinions.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tell me about daycare (hold my haaaaand!)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:53 am 
Offline
Wears Durian Helmet
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:16 am
Posts: 874
Location: NJ
so I went on my first visit/tour today.

allow me to just place this particular link in this particular thread for no reason especially.

http://nypost.com/2015/09/01/day-care-w ... ub-videos/




... I mean, for fork's sake. because I was not anxious enough about this process, and also, WHAT ARE THE FORKING ODDS. jesus.

_________________
...I am an opinionated prick not a problem solver. -matwinser

Now I remember why I try to keep a continent between me and New Jersey at all times. -torque


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tell me about daycare (hold my haaaaand!)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:22 pm 
Offline
Dislikes Rick Santorum
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:51 am
Posts: 7770
Location: United States of New England
i think the most disturbing part of that (other than the obvious toddler violence) is that the center seems more worried about covering it up rather than the fact that there was toddler fight club going on in their facility

_________________
Unimpressed Baby Blog


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tell me about daycare (hold my haaaaand!)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:56 pm 
Offline
Wears Durian Helmet
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:16 am
Posts: 874
Location: NJ
to be fair, i did not see this in search results before i went over there (internet research fail), they actually told me about it and discussed the changes they have made since then to rectify things.

but still.

also, mr spork is going to shiitake monuments when i tell him. i might be fired from daycare research duty.

_________________
...I am an opinionated prick not a problem solver. -matwinser

Now I remember why I try to keep a continent between me and New Jersey at all times. -torque


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tell me about daycare (hold my haaaaand!)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:55 pm 
Offline
Wears Durian Helmet

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:36 pm
Posts: 835
Location: Boston-ish
The Baby Fight Club daycare is in my hometown. I assume if you're looking in Cranford, you are somewhere in that area? If you have other daycares you would like some info about, I'm happy to reach out to my friends and family still in the area to see what they think. (I'm not sure how much the opinion of people who know a random fellow-ppker will do to alleviate your fears, but perhaps I can at least help you eliminate any other facilities that are running Baby Fight Clubs).

_________________
Mostly cookbook reviews: http://veggielawyer.wordpress.com
Life lessons and nail art: https://leapb4youlook.wordpress.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tell me about daycare (hold my haaaaand!)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:39 am 
Offline
Wears Durian Helmet
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:16 am
Posts: 874
Location: NJ
bcakes wrote:
The Baby Fight Club daycare is in my hometown. I assume if you're looking in Cranford, you are somewhere in that area? If you have other daycares you would like some info about, I'm happy to reach out to my friends and family still in the area to see what they think. (I'm not sure how much the opinion of people who know a random fellow-ppker will do to alleviate your fears, but perhaps I can at least help you eliminate any other facilities that are running Baby Fight Clubs).


Actually I'd love some recommendations for good ones in the area, if you know anyone who can offer. Thanks!!

_________________
...I am an opinionated prick not a problem solver. -matwinser

Now I remember why I try to keep a continent between me and New Jersey at all times. -torque


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tell me about daycare (hold my haaaaand!)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 1:16 am 
Offline
Nooch of Earl
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 3794
Location: Bella Napoli
Hi all (yes I'm slowly trying to catch back up on the PPK! It's..so..daunting)

My mom worked at a daycare for many years. Her advice was always to be very skeptical of home-based daycares. Some of them are great, I'm sure, but there are also fewer adults around because they are generally much smaller.

We've had Violet and, this year, Julia enrolled in full time care this year. I'm not even working, but the cost of living here is low enough that it's very affordable and nice to have the option. Realistically they seem to miss about 40% of the time lately because of some illness or another. By American standards it has some issues (large class sizes, I'm not sure how 'Montessori' it actually is, they are vaccination agnostic and the likeliest suspect, chicken pox, isn't something any of the kids here are vaccinated against anyway - caused an issue for us when she had lots of mosquito bites one day and I had to get a doctor's note that she didn't have the pox!).. But we love the teachers there, and Violet's teacher moved up with the class this year so it's been a lot of stability for her to have most of the same classmates and teacher. I don't know of any staff turnover since the previous year. The "primavera" area, where Julia is, has three fantastic teachers bringing order to the chaos. I love that there's an indoor playground for when the weather isn't great.. they also do gym class once a week, I have Vi signed up for ballet and soccer as well which are 2x/week each. Even the toddler area has a scaled down version of everything - a little indoor playground of its own.

They're basically there to hang out with other kids and learn Italian. The other parents have been really really great, we have a facebook group now and such. It has, overall, been a very positive experience. Of course, I would prepare to basically spend several solid months sick. Since mid-September, SOMEONE in our house has been sick at all times. It's frustrating, and I can't really say it stops quickly. My mom got several colds a year and even mono once working at a preschool.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tell me about daycare (hold my haaaaand!)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:27 am 
Offline
Not a creepy cheese pocket person
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:17 pm
Posts: 4720
Location: Austin
annak wrote:

My mom worked at a daycare for many years. Her advice was always to be very skeptical of home-based daycares. Some of them are great, I'm sure, but there are also fewer adults around because they are generally much smaller.

I always figured that at least daycare has multiple people, so a really terrible teacher is likely to be found out by the other staff. Of course toddler fight club proves that isn't always true...

_________________
www.tacocleanse.ccom


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tell me about daycare (hold my haaaaand!)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:35 am 
Offline
Nooch of Earl
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 3794
Location: Bella Napoli
It's not a guarantee, but where my mom worked (a reasonably nice suburban daycare) it seemed like there was plenty of transparency. A lot of the bigger programs (like "3 year olds" or "4 year olds" were in open plan areas where kids would interact with a group of teachers throughout the day, and while I'm sure it would still be theoretically possible to be abusing the kids, there would definitely not be as many opportunities to do so if a number of people weren't in on it. And of course they were fine with people showing up during the day as long as they rang the doorbell and were escorted by staff.

My daughters' school, on the other hand, doesn't seem as open to parents just dropping by, and there are dropoff and pickup time ranges they prefer you stick to, which makes me a little twitchy but on the other hand I see how it could be disruptive, especially at eg naptimes. I trust them, but I do kind of wish parents were more welcome, especially for special events. (Eg: for Halloween they have a magic show put on by a local group, and parents are basically explicitly told that it's just for kids, parents aren't welcome. They're going on a field trip to some kind of jam-producing agroturismo next month with a talk on seasonal fruit, orchard visit, and jam tasting!! and I want to go so much but they haven't asked for and presumably don't want any parent volunteers. I think a lot of that is just cultural.)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tell me about daycare (hold my haaaaand!)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:23 pm 
Offline
Wears Durian Helmet

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:36 pm
Posts: 835
Location: Boston-ish
It took me forever to get around to gathering recommendations, but I finally reached out to some friends from high school. So far, I got one recommendation for the Goddard School in Fanwood. (Not sure if that's too far from where you are). The friend who recommended it sends her son there. If I get any other recommendations, I will post them.

_________________
Mostly cookbook reviews: http://veggielawyer.wordpress.com
Life lessons and nail art: https://leapb4youlook.wordpress.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tell me about daycare (hold my haaaaand!)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:28 pm 
Offline
Bathes in Braggs

Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:18 pm
Posts: 1306
I am starting to look at daycares here. The cost! eek! The place I am most interested in (which has a waiting list) is almost $2500 a month for my 2 kids. That is significantly more than the cost in our prior locale. My husband seems unphased by the price tag though. He is dying to get out of the house. I am full of anxiety about sending two non-verbal children to daycare and then of course the illnesses they are bound to have. The one positive side of the high price tag...my husband has started feeling that maybe sending Giles to special pre-K at the public school isn't such a terrible idea after all. I am in a new state so I don't know what they offer as of yet.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tell me about daycare (hold my haaaaand!)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:42 am 
Offline
Not a creepy cheese pocket person
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:17 pm
Posts: 4720
Location: Austin
Would a nanny be cheaper? It would avoid the illness issue and cut down on driving time.

_________________
www.tacocleanse.ccom


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tell me about daycare (hold my haaaaand!)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:24 pm 
Offline
***LIES!!!***
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:10 pm
Posts: 4867
My nephew goes to a Goddard School and his parents really like it.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Template made by DEVPPL/ThatBigForum and fancied up by What Cheer