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 Post subject: Re: Pregnancy Updates Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:56 pm 
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ShannonLea- you look amazing amazing amazing!

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PPKTWINSPLOSION!!!!! (there must be something in the tofu)

No kidding!

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 Post subject: Re: Pregnancy Updates Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:54 am 
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You look so beautiful, ShannonLea! I'm sorry you're uncomfortable, but you don't look it at all. (Come out, babies!)

I got a not-so-great diagnosis at my ultrasound on Wednesday. The baby's tummy measurement is way below where it's supposed to be. Fortunately, the placenta doesn't show any signs of breaking down, but the doctor was a little concerned. I go in next Wednesday for an NST.

In the meantime, my midwife gave me the go-ahead to start encouraging labor (evening primrose, sex, acupuncture).

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 Post subject: Re: Pregnancy Updates Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:00 am 
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Good luck, Noelle. That sounds scary. Did they give you any thoughts about what might be going on?


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 Post subject: Re: Pregnancy Updates Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:42 am 
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When a baby stops growing in proportion to herself, it's usually the placenta starting to break down or high blood pressure in the mother. The placenta looks fine, my blood pressure is normal, and the baby is energetic, so...not a clue as to what's going on. They didn't really have anything to say other than, "Don't go post-dates." (Like I have a lot of control over that!)

The doctor also mentioned the possibility that it could just be the the baby's build. Best case scenario: I'm having a supermodel baby.

My midwife looked at the ultrasound findings and basically said, "Strange, but not scary." She's getting a second opinion from a different OB friend of hers, mostly for my peace of mind.

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 Post subject: Re: Pregnancy Updates Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:45 pm 
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Sending tons of good thoughts, Noelle. I hope its just a one time fluke and that your little one is superhealthy and arrives well and easily.

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 Post subject: Re: Pregnancy Updates Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:06 pm 
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Sending lots of good healthy baby and mama thoughts your way, Noelle.


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 Post subject: Re: Pregnancy Updates Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 12:42 pm 
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<3 to Noelle and her little one. Hope everything will be OK. Keep us posted.

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 Post subject: Re: Pregnancy Updates Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:55 pm 
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I hope it's just a fluke Noelle!

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 Post subject: Re: Pregnancy Updates Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:24 pm 
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thinking good thoughts for you noelle. sounds like your hcp's don't think it's too serious, so hopefully it's just a weird fluke and nothing more.

i'm going to be the pregnant lady everyone gives the side-eye to next weekend.

it's my best friend from university's wedding, and i'm going to be there the week before for the bachelorette party. which is at a spa, a swedish baths type place. one of the weirdest no-nos during pregnancy is that you have to avoid hot tubs and saunas. this makes absolutely no sense to me. i know that i am more sensitive to heat while pregnant (extra blood flow, blood pressure, alla that) HENCE I GET OUT OF THE HEAT (including sunny spots, etc) WHEN I FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE. i am not a freaking idiot. i will not sit in a hot tub to the point that i feel uncomfortable. my fetus will not be cooking inside me... hello, my fetus lives 24/7 in a cocoon of hot blood and amniotic fluid.

i remember researching it last time, and no website will give me a more definite scientific reason to avoid hot tubs after the first trimester other than "well, it's probably best." i did hot yoga last time, and took a thermometer in with me to monitor my internal temp throughout the first couple classes. it never ever went above normal. i even took my temp after going in a sauna for a little while and again, normal.

and i'll probably be having a glass of wine with dinner that night too.

it peas me off that pregnancy seems to be one of the only times in life when any tiny risk, no matter how tenuous, becomes this whole big thing that pregnant women should NEVER EVER DO OMG, and when somehow old wives tales take on the import of real scientific research. i mean, i know that as a society, we generally seem to think that women are overall lacking in common sense, but seriously.

/rant over. i only even thought of it because my friend's sister is pregnant in her third trimester too, and is not planning to join us.


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 Post subject: Re: Pregnancy Updates Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:30 pm 
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I think you are so awesome LB! I hope you have a ton of fun and that no one gives you the side-eye without getting an eyeful of middle finger.

And WHOA to you being in your third trimester already! WHOA! I think we need belly pictures :)

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 Post subject: Re: Pregnancy Updates Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:01 am 
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littlebird wrote:
it peas me off that pregnancy seems to be one of the only times in life when any tiny risk, no matter how tenuous, becomes this whole big thing that pregnant women should NEVER EVER DO OMG, and when somehow old wives tales take on the import of real scientific research. i mean, i know that as a society, we generally seem to think that women are overall lacking in common sense, but seriously.


I don't think it's an issue of people thinking women have no common sense. I think it's more that it's super sad to see babies die or born ill and people want to see everything that might remotely help them be born healthy, you know? I don't judge other people for the decisions they make while they are pregnant, but for me, I definitely took all precautions I knew of because I know I personally couldn't deal with putting my child in (even remote) danger.

I think it's important that we don't make people feel stupid for taking these precautions, just like you don't want to b made to feel bad for choosing not to.

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 Post subject: Re: Pregnancy Updates Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:20 am 
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yeah, but chances are you do things with your kids that have varying levels of risk once they are out of the womb. some of the things that we do all the time carry really large risks with them, but no one bats an eye. literally dozens of children have drowned or been injured in the water this summer already, and no one says, well, that risk of death or injury is too great to risk... i'm not taking my kids to the pool. people turn their kids forward facing in car seats before 4, despite multiple scientific studies showing lots of proof that it's MUCH safer not to, and for that matter, people take frivolous car rides despite it being a legitimately high risk activity all the time. choking is another thing. obviously there are certain foods that carry a higher risk of choking and lots of people avoid those, but a kid can choke on anything, and realistically, the only way to prevent it is to watch them eat every bite of food.

if you do all THOSE things... never letting your kids swim with other adults (who might not take water safety as seriously as you) or taking more than one kid to the pool at a time, never letting your kid eat if you're not watching them, keeping your kids rearfacing until 4, not driving anywhere unnecessarily, not letting them use trampolines, etc etc, you get labeled as a possibly crazy, over-anxious helicopter parent. if you take minor risks that can be easily managed with common sense (drinking alcohol, sitting in a hot tub) while pregnant, you are negligent and a possibly unfit mother.

i'm really not trying to be rude to women who made different choices during their pregnancies. but it does seem like an inescapable fact that there is a double standard to how seriously we're meant to take safety while pregnant v. with an already born child.


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 Post subject: Re: Pregnancy Updates Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:41 am 
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I use the same reasoning with my kids after they are born as I did when I was pregnant with them, and I think lots of people do too. Risk vs. benefit. Safest way to do things that are inherently risky but overboard to avoid.

I think you are missing the entire sane area in between negligent parent and helicopter parent. Taking safety precautions without unnecessary risks.

Example: trampolines. Netted enclosure + 1 kid at a time, following basic safety precautions without forgoing the fun.

You don't have to agree with me or justify your reasoning with me, but I do (as a mod) need you to be respectful of people who do choose to take those pregnancy precautions.

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 Post subject: Re: Pregnancy Updates Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:08 am 
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I'm seconding the need for lb belly pictures!

I totally get the feeling of "just let me be!" when it comes to pregnancy. I know it's a generalizing statement, but the constant need for one-upping that seems to happen within groups of women drives me nuts. And many times when a woman brings something up to you out of "concern", it feels more like she's stating the fact that SHE would have done it differently, and because of that, she's a better mother/wife/employee/whathaveyou. An ex-coworker of mine's pregnancy slightly overlapped mine, and she made a huge deal over the fact that I drank a diet coke once or twice a week (man, I craved that stuff back then). It was never just that annoying side-eye either, it was full on telling me that I was going to hurt my baby. It was not said in any way that could be regarded as true concern - she was doing everything right, and I was just plain wrong. She of course told our coworkers that my soda drinking was the reason my kid ended up in the NICU. We don't talk anymore. I'm so glad I work in a office full of men now - no drama whatsoever.

We're all doing the best for ourselves and our families. For some, a glass of wine to celebrate or just to relax is in their comfort zone. Others won't dye their hair/get their nails done/go for a dip in the hottub. We all have our own comfort zone, and we don't know what the other person is going through health-wise (perhaps the woman's doctor has told her to have a glass a wine or go take a soak to relax!), and I don't think we should say anything unless there is an immediate, definite danger

I don't think a single pregnant woman hasn't heard the studies that say do-or-don't do every single freggin thing, but there are so many studies now on every minute thing, it's hard to keep track of what's right and what's wrong. We've got to trust women and their health care providers. On the other hand, I had to see lots of babies in the NICU who were dealing with health issues from mothers who drank excessively (I'm saying "excessively" in particular, because I'm not including you, lb, and your glass of wine!), smoked or did drugs. I spoke to a few of these moms and they were beside themselves, saying that if they had known that this was going to be the result, they would've quit when they realized they were expecting. As much as that voice in the back of my head was screaming, "Really? You didn't know crack would hurt your baby?!", I felt for them and their pain.

I believe I have talked myself into a circle.


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 Post subject: Re: Pregnancy Updates Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:35 am 
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When I was a first time pregnant mom, I literally googled everything - stopped using anything with lavender or mint or oregano in it, stopped using any essential oils, stopped drinking any coffee (including decaf) and tried to eliminate any risk I'd ever heard of because I was terrified of hurting my baby. I didn't even eat pre-mixed smoothie stuff like Vega bc they note that its not tested to be safe for pregnancy and their concern is (1) blanket waiver of liability and (2) (from Vega's help line) you might be getting too many vitamins etc along with your prenatal vitamin.

And you know what, none of those things posed the amount of risk that just driving around in my car presented.

Its not a no-risk world out there, and the information is so incomplete. I completely agree that we need to trust women to make sane decisions with their health care providers and not use fear of "OMG DEAD BABIES AND DEAD MOMMIES!!!!" (TM Dr Lisa) to essentially police pregnant women.

I still remember mapmapmap's post about going to a health fair and having vendors refuse to sell her certain products because she was pregnant. We are going down a slippery slope when we allow concern for a fetus to trump a pregnant person's rights to make decisions for themselves and their fetuses.

Flava, that is the worst story. I can't believe someone would have the gall to blame you like that

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 Post subject: Re: Pregnancy Updates Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:59 am 
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25 weeks. with tzipi, and a dusty mirror. also, scuse the undies!


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 Post subject: Re: Pregnancy Updates Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:03 am 
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Great photo! And I love Tzipi in there!

You look awesome!

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 Post subject: Re: Pregnancy Updates Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:22 am 
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I'm reiterating that my concern is that moms who DO choose to take these precautions deserve the same respect as those who do not. I feel like insulting those who do is just as unacceptable as moms insulting those who choose not too. That is the same kind of mom one-upping that we try to avoid here.

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 Post subject: Re: Pregnancy Updates Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:23 am 
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Cute belly, littlebird! I'm with you on the weirdness of the hot tub warnings. Like you said, your baby is quite well protected in there and your body is able to regulate its temperature or else humans probably wouldn't be able to live in both the tropics and Montreal... I would have LOVED to go in a hot tub while I was pregnant, but I didn't have access to any, and I don't have a bath tub at home so I wasn't even able to take baths. This is the last time I will ever live somewhere without a bath tub, it sucks!

Flavabean, I can't believe that woman could say such cruel things to you. That doesn't seem to me like one of those situations where someone says annoying things to a pregnant woman, that's just a whole other level. Making hypothetical comments about potential harm to a fetus is really different from blaming a mother for her baby being sick, especially since even in situations like heavy drug use, it's pretty much impossible to actually prove direct cause and effect. Random genetic factors and random birth accidents are more likely to cause issues for a baby than teratogens.


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 Post subject: Re: Pregnancy Updates Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:54 pm 
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Kelly wrote:
I'm reiterating that my concern is that moms who DO choose to take these precautions deserve the same respect as those who do not. I feel like insulting those who do is just as unacceptable as moms insulting those who choose not too. That is the same kind of mom one-upping that we try to avoid here.


Thank you. I did read information on hot tub use and I chose to avoid the hot tub even though I really love hot tubs. I even avoided a hot bath, even though the stuff I read said baths were okay because the water cools. I know that for me, I do stay in longer than I should with super hot water, beyond when I am comfortable. I used to come out of hot baths quite red. I don't think I'm stupid because I am not as good at regulating my body temperature. I get that people want to vent when confronted with judgment, but it is really easy to turn it the other way around, even if that is not what was meant.


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 Post subject: Re: Pregnancy Updates Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:26 pm 
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I didn't hear LB bashing women who take whatever precautions they want to take, I heard her bashing the controlling, oppressive, paternalistic society we live in that thinks it can dictate pregnant women's choices to them - and that culture goes hand-in-hand with one that blames mothers for every bad thing that happens in pregnancy and birth even though the vast majority of it is totally out of our hands.

Even when it comes to fetal alcohol syndrome, some of the more recent research doesn't point to excessive alcohol consumption as the number one predictor, but poverty level - it's more associated with your nutritional status as a result of your income than it is with binge drinking. There are just things beyond our current understanding about how fetal development works and what things pose true absolute risk or are actually part of a more complex risk pattern (most of which may be outside a person's individual control). It's so unfair that we hold women up to some unattainable standard of zero risk living instead of trusting them to make reasonable decisions for themselves and their families. It's just like some individuals know they have a family propensity toward substance abuse so they decide never to drink (or anything else), but obviously it would not be sensible for most people to never have a drink because if you never drink you could never become an alcoholic. People have to know themselves and make their own decisions.


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 Post subject: Re: Pregnancy Updates Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:12 pm 
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Kelly, you are totally straw-personing. Here's what littlebird wrote (you even quoted it yourself). "it peas me off that pregnancy seems to be one of the only times in life when any tiny risk, no matter how tenuous, becomes this whole big thing that pregnant women should NEVER EVER DO OMG, and when somehow old wives tales take on the import of real scientific research. i mean, i know that as a society, we generally seem to think that women are overall lacking in common sense, but seriously." Here's what you wrote "I feel like insulting those who do is just as unacceptable as moms insulting those who choose not too. That is the same kind of mom one-upping that we try to avoid here." Littlebird did not insult anybody. She addressed a cultural trend. An individual person can be poorly informed, follow every random piece of "advice" they hear, be unable to assess risk or understand how medicine/danger/life works. We can not insult that person, and still identify their behaviour as being influenced by a culture that does not cultivate critical thinking skills. Choosing to follow unscientific advice for whatever reason is a person's perogative, and there is no value placed on that person for why they make that choice. The choice itself is still discussable, and the behaviour of attempting to follow every piece of pregnancy-risk remour is also discussable.


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 Post subject: Re: Pregnancy Updates Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:21 pm 
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And Kimba, you describing that you are unable to regulate your body temperature well means that you are aware of your own body and make choices for yourself based on that knowledge. That is exactly what Littlebird wrote about herself "i know that i am more sensitive to heat while pregnant (extra blood flow, blood pressure, alla that) HENCE I GET OUT OF THE HEAT (including sunny spots, etc) WHEN I FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE." Here's what you wrote "I don't think I'm stupid because I am not as good at regulating my body temperature. I get that people want to vent when confronted with judgment, but it is really easy to turn it the other way around, even if that is not what was meant." Absolutely nobody said you (or anybody) are stupid for not regulating your body temperature, all that was said is that you are capable to taking care of that yourself without other people getting up in your business about their preconcieved ideas of how you regulate your body temperature. Your experience of knowing how your body deals with heat is 100 % compatible with Littlebird's, so I honestly have no idea where you get the idea that she was turning judgement on you.


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 Post subject: Re: Pregnancy Updates Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:23 pm 
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mapmapmap wrote:
Kelly, you are totally straw-personing. Here's what littlebird wrote (you even quoted it yourself). "it peas me off that pregnancy seems to be one of the only times in life when any tiny risk, no matter how tenuous, becomes this whole big thing that pregnant women should NEVER EVER DO OMG, and when somehow old wives tales take on the import of real scientific research. i mean, i know that as a society, we generally seem to think that women are overall lacking in common sense, but seriously." Here's what you wrote "I feel like insulting those who do is just as unacceptable as moms insulting those who choose not too. That is the same kind of mom one-upping that we try to avoid here." Littlebird did not insult anybody. She addressed a cultural trend. An individual person can be poorly informed, follow every random piece of "advice" they hear, be unable to assess risk or understand how medicine/danger/life works. We can not insult that person, and still identify their behaviour as being influenced by a culture that does not cultivate critical thinking skills. Choosing to follow unscientific advice for whatever reason is a person's perogative, and there is no value placed on that person for why they make that choice. The choice itself is still discussable, and the behaviour of attempting to follow every piece of pregnancy-risk remour is also discussable.


This, but ALSO, that there are totally reasonable, well-informed people who follow lots of advice that others may choose not to follow, based on their own reasonable risk assessment. We have to be trusted to be able to make those decisions for ourselves and our bodies do not become public commodities while pregnant - open to the opinion of every other person we meet.


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 Post subject: Re: Pregnancy Updates Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:34 pm 
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Ariann wrote:
I didn't hear LB bashing women who take whatever precautions they want to take, I heard her bashing the controlling, oppressive, paternalistic society we live in that thinks it can dictate pregnant women's choices to them - and that culture goes hand-in-hand with one that blames mothers for every bad thing that happens in pregnancy and birth even though the vast majority of it is totally out of our hands.

Yeah, that's mostly what I saw too, but I think it's going too far to say that Kelly was straw personing. I see where Kelly is coming from-- I don't think there's anything wrong at all when women decide to take every precaution possible.

I drink a cup of fully caffeinated coffee everyday while pregnant, and will take sips of beer/wine once I'm in the late second trimester. I use personal care items that have lavender even though I've read that lavender is an suspected endocrine disruptor (still avoiding things that are strongly lavender though). However, no hot tubs/steam rooms/saunas for me-- I don't even like them that much, so why should I take a minimal risk when there is no gain for me?

I think it's important that we don't shame women either way for this. You aren't automatically destined to become a control-freak helicopter parent if you decide to not take any avoidable risks during pregnancy, but I don't think taking small, reasonable, "risks" makes you negligent either.


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