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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station 2.0
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:50 pm 
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She could just have been being blustery because she was embarrassed and didn't know how to react. I'm sure it's hard being the parent of a kid who hurts other kids.


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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station 2.0
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:56 pm 
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Ariann wrote:
She could just have been being blustery because she was embarrassed and didn't know how to react. I'm sure it's hard being the parent of a kid who hurts other kids.


I'm sure it is too. But joking about her child causing another one pain is awful and setting a horrible example for her child to model his behavior after.

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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station 2.0
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:07 pm 
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No, of course, but I could understand why she might do it and it might not directly reflect on her true feelings about the situation.


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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station 2.0
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:15 pm 
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I really don't care about the true feelings of someone who makes jokes about their kid repeating violent behavior. Kelly, don't forget to stand behind her and laugh if her kid gets expelled for biting someone else.

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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station 2.0
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:44 pm 
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Trust me, I don't necessarily either (and might have been inspired to say a nasty thing or two to this person in the moment), but I tend not to want to believe that the average person is a sociopath and this is not that uncommon of a thing for people to joke about actually.


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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station 2.0
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:04 pm 
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Who called her a sociopath? Why does a random, unnamed woman need defending? It's lame that she said it (within earshot of Kelly, even) and it really sucks that Kelly's kid has a giant bite mark on his leg.

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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station 2.0
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:15 pm 
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It totally sucks that Silas got hurt! Agreed! No question! And if it were my kid that did the hurting, I'd be mortified and act appropriately in response. I am not at all defending this person or her behavior, it was unacceptable and deserving of scorn. I just hope she doesn't really not care about what her kid did because that would be awful for her, the kid, and everyone around them.


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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station 2.0
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:49 am 
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It's conversations like this that make me wish there was some kind of handbook for posting on the PPK.

Ariann, I totally get you. When I was a kid, there were a few times I said snarky things to cover for my true feelings of hurt and embarrassment; plenty of adults do that, too.

(At this point, the handbook would guide me to make a defusing comment, explaining that, of course, that kind of behaviour is far from ideal and in the above situation, the mother shouldn't have joked about her son's behaviour and instead made her disapproval known to everyone.)

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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station 2.0
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:49 am 
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So my husband was offered a job in SF and now we need to decide if we really want to move. We went from definitely wanting to when his job search began, to completely undecided now that it's a reality. And he needs to tell them by Monday. I mean, packing up and moving cross country with two kids to a place we don't have any really connection to is quite daunting. We'd be giving up living near family, the friends Ada has had since she was a newborn (which btw two of her closest ones will be moving next year anyway), Ada being able to start preschool this fall, being able to get around easily via subway, etc. Mostly I'm concerned about moving the kids now, only to possibly move them again in a couple of years if we want to move back. That's a lot of change! So basically, I have not slept the last few nights.


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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station 2.0
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:24 am 
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TheCrabbyCrafter wrote:
It's conversations like this that make me wish there was some kind of handbook for posting on the PPK.


viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4895

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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station 2.0
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:05 pm 
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mrsbadmouth wrote:
TheCrabbyCrafter wrote:
It's conversations like this that make me wish there was some kind of handbook for posting on the PPK.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4895

Thank you, and I have read the forum rules before, but that's not what I meant. The earlier debate just had me thinking... it's like sometimes there's this forum posting algorithm where people either preface or postface (I had to look that up to find the right word) any possibly-opposing statements with pardons and apologies and explanations and such (I feel like I kind of did that in the '? for those who didn't change their last name with marriage'-thread) or end up making several follow-up statements and clarifications. Not being snarky, just something I noticed.

And, back to the topic of biting on the playground -- that totally happened to me when I was a little kid! I wouldn't get off this one bar when some girl demanded I did and she bit me really hard on the hand.

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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station 2.0
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:54 pm 
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mrsbadmouth wrote:
I really don't care about the true feelings of someone who makes jokes about their kid repeating violent behavior. Kelly, don't forget to stand behind her and laugh if her kid gets expelled for biting someone else.

The best preschool that I ever visited as a librarian would expel persistent biters. Some kids just won't stop.

It's not nice, it's hard on the staff when there is a room filled with kids and you have one or two who are behaving horribly, and it makes the other kids avoid them.

Also, if I had a four year old who was solving issues by biting, I would not be laughing about it. That's a little old to be doing that.

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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station 2.0
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:23 pm 
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Silas' school has a strict no-biting policy (according to the handbook & the directors). First step was a warning, second occurrence is a meeting with all parents involved, third step is to involve behavior specialists. I'm hoping we don't need a second step! This is such a great school and Silas is so happy there. Even through his tears yesterday, he was talking about how much fun he had had before he was hurt.

Something that makes this harder for us is that we are so anti-voilence that my kids don't expect anyone to react that way. Silas has never seen anyone hit or bite before, so this is such an awakening. I remember Shae realizing the same thing when he started school (Kindergarten) and being so shocked and horrified by it. We're all doing a lot of talking about it and hoping he isn't fearful of school because of this.

I'm not in the business of making excuses for other people's bad behavior, so honestly I don't really care why the biter's mother was joking about it. It was in bad taste and disrespectful to my child. If she wanted to laugh it off, it should not have happened inside the school or while Silas still has tears streaming down his face.

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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station 2.0
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:56 pm 
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Not only has someone internetsplained terrible behavior, but then someone else defended the intersplainer? And then...it's the PPK's fault? I think it's pretty simple: when something shitty happens to someone or their child, you sympathize. End of story, no?

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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station 2.0
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:53 pm 
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Kelly wrote:
Silas' school has a strict no-biting policy (according to the handbook & the directors). First step was a warning, second occurrence is a meeting with all parents involved, third step is to involve behavior specialists. I'm hoping we don't need a second step! This is such a great school and Silas is so happy there. Even through his tears yesterday, he was talking about how much fun he had had before he was hurt.

Something that makes this harder for us is that we are so anti-voilence that my kids don't expect anyone to react that way. Silas has never seen anyone hit or bite before, so this is such an awakening. I remember Shae realizing the same thing when he started school (Kindergarten) and being so shocked and horrified by it. We're all doing a lot of talking about it and hoping he isn't fearful of school because of this.

I'm not in the business of making excuses for other people's bad behavior, so honestly I don't really care why the biter's mother was joking about it. It was in bad taste and disrespectful to my child. If she wanted to laugh it off, it should not have happened inside the school or while Silas still has tears streaming down his face.


I hope Silas feels better soon. It's a scary and terrible thing to happen. Biting in kindergarten will not get laughs from most school administrators.

I know one mom who laughed off her children's behavior like that mom. Her older son likes to do things like lock his younger brother's friends in closets during sleepovers. He also liked to toss books at people. The sister is such a mean girl that one of Toby's classmates is scared to death of her two years later. But, hey, kids will be kids!

In contrast, a 4th grade bully who's father took complaints seriously was transformed into the most wonderful kid by 5th grade. His father did not tolerate that behavior at all. The kid still got in trouble for being a cut up and a class clown but the meanness was gone.

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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station 2.0
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:25 pm 
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So BabyPunk decided that reverting back to waking up every 2-3 hours at night was an awesome idea. Apparently the 5-6 hours of sleep at a time thing we had going was for the birds. She also doesn't nap like ever so I think she thinks sleep is stupid in general.

She seems to have decided also that the middle of the night is time for really loooooong nursing sessions.
Right now we are approaching the 40 minute mark with no signs of stopping.

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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station 2.0
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:04 am 
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Kelly, I'm sorry Silas got bit. If that had happened to one of my kids, I would have gone right here and posted the same thing you did. I didn't mean to sound like I was defending that lady's callous behaviour. I made my first post quickly and didn't re-read it because my kids were jumping all over me and Vax and without thinking how it would be misinterpreted -- my post was because I had realised that (in a completely different situation) when I was a kid, I was the crasshole who said something bisque-y to hide her true feelings (in my case, my mom ran over a squirrel and I didn't want to cry, so I laughed instead and then got bitched out for being callous). I didn't mean to sound like I was excusing that kind of behaviour and probably should just not have posted anything.

I also wasn't trying to blame the ppk for any of this. I'm just bad with words and did a poor job of explaining my 'internet forum posting algorithm' idea (this applies to a lot of forums, but, like I said, I'm no good with words and didn't explain that very well) and picked a really, really bad time to mention a theory I'd been mulling over for ages. Sorry.

Also, this:
Kelly wrote:
Something that makes this harder for us is that we are so anti-voilence that my kids don't expect anyone to react that way. Silas has never seen anyone hit or bite before, so this is such an awakening.

is amazing! I'm very impressed that you've managed to keep all that away from Silas until now. Any suggestions, tips, or tricks? My kids hit and sometimes bite each other (not other kids, though) -- no idea where that came from because Mr Crabby and I don't hit or bite -- and I would much prefer they didn't expect or do that kind of behaviour.

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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station 2.0
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:43 am 
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Vantine wrote:
I hope Silas feels better soon. It's a scary and terrible thing to happen. Biting in kindergarten will not get laughs from most school administrators.

I know one mom who laughed off her children's behavior like that mom. Her older son likes to do things like lock his younger brother's friends in closets during sleepovers. He also liked to toss books at people. The sister is such a mean girl that one of Toby's classmates is scared to death of her two years later. But, hey, kids will be kids!

In contrast, a 4th grade bully who's father took complaints seriously was transformed into the most wonderful kid by 5th grade. His father did not tolerate that behavior at all. The kid still got in trouble for being a cut up and a class clown but the meanness was gone.


Thanks Vantine! The teachers and both directors were horrified, so I feel confident that they'll do everything they can to stop the biting. I hope hope the Mom gets on board, for the little boy's sake.

I'm glad you told those stories. It's so important that people recognize signs of bullying/violence early on and stop it before it goes too far. Most kids are so moldable, it can really change their lives.

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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station 2.0
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:52 am 
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TheCrabbyCrafter wrote:
Kelly, I'm sorry Silas got bit. If that had happened to one of my kids, I would have gone right here and posted the same thing you did. I didn't mean to sound like I was defending that lady's callous behaviour. I made my first post quickly and didn't re-read it because my kids were jumping all over me and Vax and without thinking how it would be misinterpreted -- my post was because I had realised that (in a completely different situation) when I was a kid, I was the crasshole who said something bisque-y to hide her true feelings (in my case, my mom ran over a squirrel and I didn't want to cry, so I laughed instead and then got bitched out for being callous). I didn't mean to sound like I was excusing that kind of behaviour and probably should just not have posted anything.

I also wasn't trying to blame the ppk for any of this. I'm just bad with words and did a poor job of explaining my 'internet forum posting algorithm' idea (this applies to a lot of forums, but, like I said, I'm no good with words and didn't explain that very well) and picked a really, really bad time to mention a theory I'd been mulling over for ages. Sorry.


Thanks! I appreciate that.

TheCrabbyCrafter wrote:
Also, this:
Kelly wrote:
Something that makes this harder for us is that we are so anti-voilence that my kids don't expect anyone to react that way. Silas has never seen anyone hit or bite before, so this is such an awakening.

is amazing! I'm very impressed that you've managed to keep all that away from Silas until now. Any suggestions, tips, or tricks? My kids hit and sometimes bite each other (not other kids, though) -- no idea where that came from because Mr Crabby and I don't hit or bite -- and I would much prefer they didn't expect or do that kind of behaviour.


Well, in our case, I think it really helped that my kids are so far apart in age! Almost 10 years apart. Shae was an only child and hitting & stuff just wasn't a thing for him. Silas went through stages with his speech delay where he would throw toys or push us away because of his frustrations & massive tantrums and we were just very consistent with not allowing it. Just helping him calm down and always stressing using his words to fix problems (once he was able to talk). Both of my kids really understand when we explain this kind of thing to them, so that makes it a little easier too.

I grew up with a brother and sister and we are all close in age. We fought nonstop and I hate it so much. I have no idea how I would handle keeping siblings from fighting, I know it has to be super difficult! We didn't listen to anything my parents tried when we were kids. I feel for you! But we all grew out of it and none of us hit other kids, just each other, so I don't think it's the mark of a violent kid or anything like that.

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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station 2.0
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:53 am 
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LisaPunk wrote:
So BabyPunk decided that reverting back to waking up every 2-3 hours at night was an awesome idea. Apparently the 5-6 hours of sleep at a time thing we had going was for the birds. She also doesn't nap like ever so I think she thinks sleep is stupid in general.

She seems to have decided also that the middle of the night is time for really loooooong nursing sessions.
Right now we are approaching the 40 minute mark with no signs of stopping.


That sounds like a growth spurt! Hopefully it is, and she'll be back to herself soon and let you have some sleep. Good luck!

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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station 2.0
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:37 pm 
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sashi, congratulations to your husband in any case, whatever you decide. It's tough to have to make a decision that fast--we'll be interested to hear what you guys choose to do.

LP, tiny wu also suddenly decided to have only marathon nursing sessions right around that age. After a week or two she went back to normal nursing habits (though, sadly, her sleeping habits have never been as good as BabyPunk's)!


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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station 2.0
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:27 pm 
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Husband home. There are challenges, as always, in reincorporating him into our lives. On the one hand, V is thrilled to have him back and parenting seems so easy with help! On the other hand, he does things like leave small breakables in kid reach, or fall asleep while supervising her, or eat up all of the cereal I buy for her..

And the extra dishes and mess! This house is too small for all of us!


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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station 2.0
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:01 pm 
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Hah annak! Wishing you an easy reincorporation of B into your routine, and hopefully a bit of well-deserved alone time. And of course, may all your breakables remain intact!

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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station 2.0
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:25 pm 
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At very least it would be nice to have a few days without axes and hedge mazes....

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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station 2.0
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:01 pm 
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I hope you're all adjusting annak! And I really hope you're getting a break.

ScandinaVegan wrote:
sashi, congratulations to your husband in any case, whatever you decide. It's tough to have to make a decision that fast--we'll be interested to hear what you guys choose to do.

We decided that it was bad timing to move. It would be a little too much right now dealing with the logistics of moving and to be in a completely new place with a newborn and two year old. We're all still adjusting...and still sleep deprived.


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