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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:43 pm 
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***LIES!!!***
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I spent a couple hundred dollars getting set up before Malka was born on stuff like cloth wipes, a breast pump (you can now get them free through insurance) and pump accessories (got bottles for free second hand), newborn clothes, and a few towels and other bathroom stuff. I spend about 20 Bucks a month on diapers and very little on thrifted clothes. The major expense we had was formula, which seriously cost about five dollars a day for 18 months. Really insane. If you can breastfeed, this is the most serious cost saving measure. If you can cloth diaper, that will save you money over the long term, although not upfront. At the very least see if you can use cloth wipes. Thrift is a big help, making friends with people who give stuff away is even better.


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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:44 pm 
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ol' garly cooch
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JOPA, there's always enough money and there's always a lack of it. The Jewbacca family does just fine. We're not ever gonna be rollin' in moulah, but we have enough. We are enough.

I am so sick of Blasto threatening to punch or kill someone if he doesn't get his way. It's annoying. I keep saying, "No one is going to punch/kill anyone. Please don't say that."

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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:52 pm 
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Not a creepy cheese pocket person
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Ariann wrote:
I spent a couple hundred dollars getting set up before Malka was born on stuff like cloth wipes, a breast pump (you can now get them free through insurance) and pump accessories (got bottles for free second hand), newborn clothes, and a few towels and other bathroom stuff.

I'm so so happy that the ACA is making insurance companies cover breast pumps. It even includes pumping accessories (tubing and bottles that work with the pump) and breast feeding consultations. I did a happy dance when I found out.


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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:02 pm 
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ol' garly cooch
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mollyjade wrote:
Ariann wrote:
I spent a couple hundred dollars getting set up before Malka was born on stuff like cloth wipes, a breast pump (you can now get them free through insurance) and pump accessories (got bottles for free second hand), newborn clothes, and a few towels and other bathroom stuff.

I'm so so happy that the ACA is making insurance companies cover breast pumps. It even includes pumping accessories (tubing and bottles that work with the pump) and breast feeding consultations. I did a happy dance when I found out.



That's amazeballs! That would have helped me SO MUCH when I was nursing the lil' wookies.

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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:21 pm 
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Heeeerrrrree's JACKY!
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Way back in the day, when my monkeys were wee, we were really poor. I mean really poor. We were students, we both worked what we could, and often were set far back by any unexpected expense. But we did it. Cloth diapers, WIC to help with formula, breastmilk when I could nurse, and no frills.
Not one of the kids even remembers how bad it was. They all just figure we have always been where we are at.

Why do schools schedule things for the same week. The same day even. Shorty has a special interview the school set up (for going to state) today after school, then the regular robotics meeting, then a band concert. She left for school crying and I couldn't help in any way.

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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:12 pm 
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Nooch of Earl
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Sometimes I think the costs of having a kid are just not going to be able to increase at the rate they have and be sustainable. a 6% annual increase in college tuition is insane. I'm glad we waited until we were as old and settled as we are to have kids, though I wouldn't have wanted to wait much longer and risk fertility issues setting in.

We're lucky (I guess?) in that we aren't in a stable enough living situation for me to work in the first place, so my income is not really missed at all. Husband's job has good benefits (Navy), and they take care of their people - the military is ironically one of the most socialist environments in the US to be in! You see this reflected in the birth rates, I think; in my civilian social circle I am among the first to be married with a kid, and I'm almost 35. In the military world it seems like most people marry and have kids by 25 or so. And I know lots of military families with 4+ kids, whereas it seems like civilians generally stop at ~2. I don't want that many but I feel like it's not a choice foisted on us financially (unless you count college, which most people I know with that many kids don't seem to plan on paying for).

I have heard that things can get very expensive once they hit grade school because they are always coming home needing money and supplies for this or that field trip or project. I know one mother who put her kid in a private kindergarten for strategic reasons and has to run somewhere to pick up an art supply several times a week, in addition to private tuition and required volunteering. I'd go insane.


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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:15 pm 
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***LIES!!!***
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jewbacca wrote:
mollyjade wrote:
Ariann wrote:
I spent a couple hundred dollars getting set up before Malka was born on stuff like cloth wipes, a breast pump (you can now get them free through insurance) and pump accessories (got bottles for free second hand), newborn clothes, and a few towels and other bathroom stuff.

I'm so so happy that the ACA is making insurance companies cover breast pumps. It even includes pumping accessories (tubing and bottles that work with the pump) and breast feeding consultations. I did a happy dance when I found out.



That's amazeballs! That would have helped me SO MUCH when I was nursing the lil' wookies.


Yeah. The attempt to breastfeed wound up being insanely expensive. First the lactation consultant who I saw like eight times and wasn't covered at all, the pump and bottles (I would have bought anyway, since I went back to work at 6 weeks), the supplemental nursing system, and then winding up still not able to do it and spending literally thousands on formula. But if everything works out properly, this should be the cheapest part of having a baby! With the ACA that should now be true even for breastfeeding moms who have to pump and bottle feed.


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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:09 pm 
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Semen Strong
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Yes, if things don't go as planned, costs can really go out of control. Time in a NICU, finding out that providers aren't covered by insurance, any emergency stuff all gets really expensive fast. I love the US for a lot of reasons but medical costs are unpredictable and out of control.

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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:13 pm 
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***LIES!!!***
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Yes to alla that.


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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:24 pm 
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Yes, I do think that it is really valid to go with the "we will make it work" perspective. I think that if I had waited until everything (financially, professionally, emotionally) were perfect than I would never have had a child. I'm a bit of a perfectionist, so maybe that's just part of my personality, but I after having my baby I (in imperfect situations listed above) I realized that there is no perfect time to have a baby. If I had kept waiting, I might not have ever tried it. It has been the most amazing experience and my only regret has been waiting as long as I did. I'd like to have more kids and I feel pressured by the time clock on fertility. I really wish that we had had our first when I was a bit younger so I didn't feel rushed to go at it again so soon. I wish that I had time/means to have a truck-load now.


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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:25 am 
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Agreed, there is never a perfect time, and the baby years can be so cheap. I know not everyone is lucky enough to have such generous friends and family, but we have seriously bought nothing whatsoever besides some clothes I enjoy knitting or sewing and occasional thrifted stuff. I know we are insanely lucky but my partner's parents' one gift to us has been to cover the cost of diaper service. We have used cloth diapers from day one and I've never washed one... I highly recommend requesting that as a gift. We got a hand me down car seat and a bunch of different baby carriers. We are just not people who generally go shopping and own a lot of stuff, so we've been the same way when it comes to baby stuff. For the first year our only income was my grad school loans and we were totally fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:25 am 
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Agreed, there is never a perfect time, and the baby years can be so cheap. I know not everyone is lucky enough to have such generous friends and family, but we have seriously bought nothing whatsoever besides some clothes I enjoy knitting or sewing and occasional thrifted stuff. I know we are insanely lucky but my partner's parents' one gift to us has been to cover the cost of diaper service. We have used cloth diapers from day one and I've never washed one... I highly recommend requesting that as a gift. We got a hand me down car seat and a bunch of different baby carriers. We are just not people who generally go shopping and own a lot of stuff, so we've been the same way when it comes to baby stuff. For the first year our only income was my grad school loans and we were totally fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:49 am 
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jordanpattern wrote:
I have a mini vent for this thread: I'm beginning to think about kids, and I can't escape the thought that if I want to have a kid, I basically need to double my income in order to be sure I can pay for everything. It sucks, and I feel like my reproductive decision making is being dictated by my job, rather than what I want to do, and I hate that. I know people with less money than me do have kids, and I'm sure if I were to become pregnant, my partner and I would be able to figure something out, but it just feels so prohibitively expensive, and I hate that that's a primary consideration right now. Reasonable living wage that can support a small family in modest style: how the fork does that work.

This is my biggest dilemma and has been since I lost my first (accidental) pregnancy. Even with all the frugal tricks in the book, there's still the hospital bills, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:11 pm 
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Eh, I think "there's never a perfect time" is a valid perspective but I also think it's a valid fear that you will be financially strapped in the early years, and it's also totally reasonable to want to wait til you're in a better place financially.

I had E when I was 25 and had just dropped out of grad school. A lot of people I'm sure thought it was insane timing. It was perfect for me in a lot of ways-- but there's no point denying that it was really, really hard financially.

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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:59 pm 
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Yeah, I'm not waiting for things to be perfect. I'm waiting for them to be adequate.

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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:41 pm 
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Should Write a Goddam Book Already
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Vegans who have been pregnant will appreciate my vent. I was explaining GBS screening to a patient whose partner works in the animal killing industry. He asked me why we don't just give every woman penicillin in every labor, because that's what they do with the pigs. Gaaah.


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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:31 pm 
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***LIES!!!***
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Wow. I don't know what's worse, the fact that they do that with pigs or that he thinks it's a-ok to give unnecessary antibiotics to birthing women.


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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:46 pm 
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Nooch of Earl
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mooo wrote:
Vegans who have been pregnant will appreciate my vent. I was explaining GBS screening to a patient whose partner works in the animal killing industry. He asked me why we don't just give every woman penicillin in every labor, because that's what they do with the pigs. Gaaah.



*headsplosion*


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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:48 pm 
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Semen Strong
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I kind of see it as being in line with the increased medicalization of birth, driven by the idea that if we can do anything at all to reduce the risk to the baby/fetus, we should do it.

I really like this Atul Gawande piece: http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2006/1 ... 009fa_fact

Quote:
A measure of how safe Cesareans have become is that there is ferocious but genuine debate about whether a mother in the thirty-ninth week of pregnancy with no special risks should be offered a Cesarean delivery as an alternative to waiting for labor. The idea seems the worst kind of hubris. How could a Cesarean delivery be considered without even trying a natural one? Surgeons don’t suggest that healthy people should get their appendixes taken out or that artificial hips might be stronger than the standard-issue ones. Our complication rates for even simple procedures remain distressingly high. Yet in the next decade or so the industrial revolution in obstetrics could make Cesarean delivery consistently safer than the birth process that evolution gave us.

Currently, one out of five hundred babies who are healthy and kicking at thirty-nine weeks dies before or during childbirth—a historically low rate, but obstetricians have reason to believe that scheduled C-sections could avert at least some of these deaths. Many argue that the results for mothers are safe, too. Scheduled C-sections are certainly far less risky than emergency C-sections—procedures done quickly, in dire circumstances, for mothers and babies already in distress.


So even though having a c-section at 39 weeks to avoid that risk to 1 in 500 babies, would impact millions of mothers and babies who would otherwise have been born healthy, there are many who believe that if it could save that one in 500 babies it is worth it. A friend of mine lost her baby at 39 weeks, and I definitely see the appeal to wanting to save a life and save someone that kind of pain, even if there were knock-on costs to other people. But part of public health is measuring the different impacts and risks and not just reacting from the desire to avoid that one bad case.

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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:31 pm 
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For the first year after Scarlett was born we lived in a gross apartment that didnt have a bathtub, and I was so sad that I couldn't take baths with her. Now we have a nice tub but every time I take a bath with her, she poops in it.


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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:13 am 
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Nooch of Earl
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I can't explain why or how, but V woke up EXTREMELY clingy this morning. I don't think it's illness (better not be - she's been out of school for a couple weeks getting over something), I don't know if it's my husband going back to work after a bunch of days off or what…but apparently if I get up to get breakfast, it's a crisis. If I sit on the opposite side of the couch, it's a problem. If she's not actually on top of me at all times, it's a problem.

It's barely past 7am and I'm sort of counting down 'til naptime already… Of course we can't go anywhere since she's still slightly coughy, and almost certainly not contagious at all but I don't feel like getting the stinkeye. We've been going on hike-y trips the last couple of days because the cabin fever was so bad but we can't really take her to kid-centric things.


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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:33 pm 
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I looked in the bathroom mirror at work, which has a lot of lighting compared to mine at home. Did I see a beautiful pregnant glow? No. I saw my skin the worst condition it has ever been in, PLUS... "the mask of pregnancy." I'm wondering if the hundreds of splotches on my face appeared overnight or if it's been gradual and I didn't notice until now? I look like I've been sitting out in the sun for three years straight.


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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:40 pm 
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Nooch of Earl
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So as the morning progressed it became clearer that V is having some kind of sudden trouble walking. At first it didn't seem to be on one side though now I'm thinking maybe it's her right foot? She's been getting around on her knees most of the morning. Ped appointment later. I hope everything turns out OK, yuck. (To complicate matters, I have a vet appt tomorrow that I really would like to have her in preschool during, since I have a lot to learn about feline diabetes and we specifically scheduled it around when she wouldn't be with me to be disruptive. My husband's already missed a bunch of work for various reasons last week (sick, was the squadron nominee to go to a sexual assault prevention workshop thing most of the week) and can't really miss more, especially since i have an ultrasound thursday afternoon that I'd like him to take care of her during. ACK. Being pregnant with an elderly cat and a toddler feels like shuffling among medical providers all day long every day.


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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:27 pm 
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Semen Strong
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Ugh, I am so sorry annak! I hope V is okay and can go back to school soon. Poor A! I hope you can find a some way to deal with his diabetes and the preparation for your move.

And wow! You are at 20 weeks already! So exciting!

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 Post subject: Re: Ventilation Station
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:09 pm 
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Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
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Jordanpattern: I am pretty amazed at how ANYONE can afford to have children in the U.S. I keep thinking that I must have misunderstood something, because here we have universal healthcare which means that the birth is completely covered, there are 9-12 months of maternity leave with like 80 or 90% of regular pay covered, children are in daycare from they are around 1 for around 600 dollars a month (daycare runs from 7am-5pm and you get to decide for how long and when as long as you make sure they're there at 10am at the latest), vaccinations are free, the entire school system is free all the way up to university and your kids will even get school support money from they're 18! And parents who don't have a lot of money get support from the government, there are lots of free after school programs etc..
I am pretty amazed that people actually manage to do it at all when they don't have all of those privileges!

That being said, my friend (who now has a 6 year old and is giving birth to #2 this week) managed to both support the daughter alone AND buy a small house alone when the daughter was 2 (well, it's more like a wood cabin actually, she spent a lot of money and a crazy amount of time on fixing it up and making it a nice place to live) while she was still in school AND she has two big dogs. And while you do get extra money when you have a child and have free childcare, she must still have been extremely frugal to make it work! I know she bought her crib at IKEA for like $70 and that 95% of the clothes and toys are second hand that she either found online or at thrift shops. i have asked her a million times how she's done it, and she always just says "you just make do and never spend money on yourself, it's expensive in the same way as an expensive hobby - you just have to prioritize that this is the one thing you spend money on". I can't imagine ever being able to do that though - I would go crazy if I didn't have the money (or time!) to go out to a concert or a ballet or a movie or a coffee at least somewhat regularly. But she's totally done it! And she doesn't seem the least bit unhappy about it either. Although, I know she's pretty relieved that they're two to carry the burden of you know, HAVING A BABY AND A 6 YEAR OLD AND TWO DOGS AND A HOUSE this time :)


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