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 Post subject: Re: Petite vegan baby
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:17 am 
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jildez wrote:
the ped was on the edge of telling me to breast feed less (he bfs before nap and bed and once at night and in the morning before we get up).


It doesn't seem like it'd actually make any sense for you to breastfeed less. Breastmilk is about 50% fat, so unless you're going to be pouring him long cool glasses of olive oil instead, I don't think replacing breastmilk with solids is going to make him gain!

Though I am not a doctor (not even on the internet!) my advice is to keep not second guessing yourself! March is really not very far away, and if it still seems like a problem then, you can worry about switching things up more then!

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 Post subject: Re: Petite vegan baby
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:06 am 
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My baby is skinny too (less than 5th percentile). It actually makes me kinda nervous so many people here have skinny babies- how many have chunky ones?!

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 Post subject: Re: Petite vegan baby
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:20 am 
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If it makes you feel any better, Walter is 14.5 pounds and he is 7 weeks old. He's already blown through the newborn and size small prefold diapers, and this week I had to order thirsties duo covers in size 2 because he's already outgrown size 1 (which is supposed to last until 9 months). He has his next check-up in about 10 days, and I'm actually wondering if the doctor is going to tell me he's too big. According to the internet, he's 96-98th percentile. He's a hefty dude.

I am not only vegan but also gluten-free, and was throughout the pregnancy. He is completely breastfed, on demand. I think size probably has more to do with genetics than with diet. I was a big baby and a huge kid, but I stopped growing early and am now a normal, medium-sized adult. Everybody follows a different growth curve. Obviously I am not a pediatrician, but I don't think you can conclude from this discussion that vegan moms make small babies. I've been following this thread but hadn't commented because I didn't think my huge kid was relevant to the conversation; maybe other moms of big vegan babies felt the same way.


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 Post subject: Re: Petite vegan baby
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:10 am 
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Aubade wrote:
My baby is skinny too (less than 5th percentile). It actually makes me kinda nervous so many people here have skinny babies- how many have chunky ones?!


although my son is wee, my daughter has been in the 90th percentile for height and weight since birth! in our extended family, we have people who are very big and very small, so i think it's all down to genetics.

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 Post subject: Re: Petite vegan baby
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:11 am 
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Aubade wrote:
My baby is skinny too (less than 5th percentile). It actually makes me kinda nervous so many people here have skinny babies- how many have chunky ones?!

I agree with Mitten! I've seen plenty of chubby bebehs here (including Mitten's Walter, C&S's Emperor Babykins and Mel's Max) to more than balance out the wee bebehs. It seems like a lot in this thread because that's what the thread is about - so we're all chiming in to commiserate.

I know people think poopiebaby is too small because mr poopie and I are quite big/tall - I'm 5'10" and he's just a hair shorter than me. BUT, both of mr poopie's parents and both of his sisters are under 5'3" (including his dad), and he's got very small people on both sides of his family, so I'm sure it's just the genetic lottery playing it's part to determine poopiebaby's size.

Also, Mitten (and anyone else who uses them), those Thirsties Duo covers are definitely sized wrong. Even my skinny little 15 pounder has had to move up to the size 2s (and on GMD they even say that in their experience, the transition is at 15 pounds, not 18).

I think what I've learned from this thread is just confirming what I already believed: Follow your instincts! If everything seems okay, it probably is. We know our babies a million times better than a pediatrician who sees them (and a hundred other kids) once every few months. We experience our babies' lives - we watch them grow, learn and develop, we observe every nuance and weigh advice against what we feel is right for our unique babies. They base their decisions on charts and averages. Being vegan has taught me many things, one of which is this: just because the general public, the government and even the doctors say something is right, it doesn't mean it is.

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 Post subject: Re: Petite vegan baby
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:20 am 
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mittenmacher wrote:
I've been following this thread but hadn't commented because I didn't think my huge kid was relevant to the conversation; maybe other moms of big vegan babies felt the same way.


Yeah, my first son has always been at least 75th percentile (We're like the opposite of Poopie. My husband and I are both really short, and our son's always been bigger.). It just didn't seem worth mentioning in this discussion. I've seen plenty of chunkers on these forums. I've also met plenty of petite omni babies in real life (I was a pretty petite baby, and my mom certainly wasn't vegan or veg).

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 Post subject: Re: Petite vegan baby
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:26 am 
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Well, I assumed it was just that there wasn't a reason to hear about the chunky babies, I just was nervous. Especially because there was a similar discussion on the vegan families list, so i was hoping for reassurance about bigger babies.

I don't know about everybody else, but I find it is really hard not to second guess my diet, especially with my Mom hassling me about it daily. Apparently every time she goes to her dr. who has never even met Kai, they discuss him and that dr. Keeps telling her Kai is too skinny, I should see a nutritionist, etc etc. I know it is ridiculous, but still, I worry.

I can't wait to see our dr. this mon. to find out how much he weighs. At the last visit they said he gained enough not to worry, but it was a few ounces less than average, and his height stayed the same. And in the beginning he was slow to gain back the weight he lost so we had to keep going back every week until he had gained enough. So I'll be relieved to hear if he grew a lot.

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 Post subject: Re: Petite vegan baby
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:53 am 
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Aubade wrote:
I don't know about everybody else, but I find it is really hard not to second guess my diet, especially with my Mom hassling me about it daily. Apparently every time she goes to her dr. who has never even met Kai, they discuss him and that dr. Keeps telling her Kai is too skinny, I should see a nutritionist, etc etc. I know it is ridiculous, but still, I worry.


I am like a broken record and have said this in a hundred thousand threads by now, but anti-vegan and judgmental people getting on your case all the time can TOTALLY make you second-guess yourself. But don't! We were sent to a dietitian for being vegan (and breastfeeding in tandem, but mostly for being vegan) after tons of flack from health people and my parents and the dietitian said our diet was great. (They did a bunch of tests on my kid, too, and they all came back fine.) I don't think I will be second-guessing myself again if the same thing happens with the rest of my kids. (The dietitian's approval and all the tests coming back normal did nothing to persuade them that we're not killing our kids and ourselves.)

ETA: I was really freaking out at one point. "The dietitian will kill us if she looks at our food diary and sees only rice and bread and pasta as his primary starches for 3 days in a row!"

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 Post subject: Re: Petite vegan baby
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 1:55 pm 
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Aubade wrote:
I don't know about everybody else, but I find it is really hard not to second guess my diet, especially with my Mom hassling me about it daily. Apparently every time she goes to her dr. who has never even met Kai, they discuss him and that dr. Keeps telling her Kai is too skinny, I should see a nutritionist, etc etc. I know it is ridiculous, but still, I worry.

Do you have a good enough relationship with your mom to ask her not to bring it up again? My mom means well, but she's gone on and on about not letting babies suck their thumbs/fingers because their teeth will come in crooked that I've resolved to tell her not to bring it up again.

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 Post subject: Re: Petite vegan baby
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:56 pm 
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mittenmacher wrote:
If it makes you feel any better, Walter is 14.5 pounds and he is 7 weeks old. He's already blown through the newborn and size small prefold diapers, and this week I had to order thirsties duo covers in size 2 because he's already outgrown size 1 (which is supposed to last until 9 months). He has his next check-up in about 10 days, and I'm actually wondering if the doctor is going to tell me he's too big. According to the internet, he's 96-98th percentile. He's a hefty dude.


Yup, the Emperor and Walter are on the same growth plan. The Emperor was 9 lbs at birth and gained a pound a week for the first six weeks. At 15 months, he's just a hair over 30 lbs, which puts him at about the 98th percentile for weight. (He's also a tall guy and has a big head, so he's pretty proportional, just HUGE.)

And I do think genetics are a big factor. My siblings and I were all huge babies... tall and heavy... and while the rest of them are pretty tall still (I'm the runt, ha ha), they're otherwise normal sized.

Despite all this, I had big guilt (no pun intended) about his size when he was a little baby. I felt like I was somehow making him fat and he was going to be a fatty all his life and have diabetes by age 2 and so on. When I look back on it now, I'm like, really? Now when people say things to me like "oh, he must really like his food!" or (as one woman genuinely said to him at the park) "I think you've had enough cookies already!", I get kind of up in their faces in his defense. He's still about 75% breastfed and the solid food he eats isn't crepe, and it makes me mad that some people look at my chunky baby and assume he's got bad parents or something.

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 Post subject: Re: Petite vegan baby
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:17 pm 
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coldandsleepy wrote:
Despite all this, I had big guilt (no pun intended) about his size when he was a little baby. I felt like I was somehow making him fat and he was going to be a fatty all his life and have diabetes by age 2 and so on. When I look back on it now, I'm like, really? Now when people say things to me like "oh, he must really like his food!" or (as one woman genuinely said to him at the park) "I think you've had enough cookies already!", I get kind of up in their faces in his defense. He's still about 75% breastfed and the solid food he eats isn't crepe, and it makes me mad that some people look at my chunky baby and assume he's got bad parents or something.


Yes, there's guilt and worry with having a really large baby, too. Of course everyone tells me I'm feeding him too much (am I just supposed to let him scream?), and my own mother told me I should replace some of his feedings with a bottle of water. Um, NO.

I want to slap that woman at the park. Walter and The Emperor should start a baby sumo league.


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 Post subject: Re: Petite vegan baby
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:35 pm 
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honestly, the idea that you could give a baby too much breastmilk seems completely ludicrous to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Petite vegan baby
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:16 pm 
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thanks guys for the reassurances. i just looked at the little sticker with his hieght and weight that they gave us at his 15 month appt and it said he was 24 lbs and 2 ozs and i think they said that he was 25 lbs and 2 ozs last week? i am going to call and see, since they didn't give me the stupid sticker this time.

Also, the little man has been hovering around the 50th percentile most of his short life and i was a tiny, off the charts kid, and am barely 5 foot now. my husband is on the small side of average, and was always small and skinny for his age, so i don't worry about it usually, i have always been like, well he's height/weight proportionent...

As for the breastfeeding, she wanted him to get more milk/soymilk instead of breastmilk, saying after a year to 15 months, breastmilk may not have the calories and fat a child needs. i think the biggest worry i could have is him not getting enough fats, our diet is def more fatty then i need, just about right for my husband, so i probably should look for opportunities to add a bit to the little's diet. to that end, my husband made peanut butter balls with soymilk powder and a bit of agave with the little today and the two of them eat them like they were going out of style. Watching him run to the fridge and point and say "more nom nom please" with a mouth full of pb was so friggin cute.

Also, kellymom made me feel better, too. he currently drinks 8- 12 oz of soy milk (or soy with a bit of hemp) a day plus i offer 3 meals and 2 snacks. He usually eats really well 2-3 times and has a bite or two the other times.
Here's her take on nursing and feeding toddlers http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/solids/toddler-foods.html


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 Post subject: Re: Petite vegan baby
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:22 pm 
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mittenmacher wrote:
Yes, there's guilt and worry with having a really large baby, too. Of course everyone tells me I'm feeding him too much (am I just supposed to let him scream?), and my own mother told me I should replace some of his feedings with a bottle of water. Um, NO. .


My mom tells me I feed Kai too much also! Go figure. She says, "oh he can't be hungry again! Why don't you give him a bottle of formula instead?" This despite the fact that I repeatedly explained to her I have to keep breastfeeding him as much as possible to keep my supply up!

She thinks formula is better and something is wrong with my milk because i don't get enough protein. I literally read her lines from the 'making more milk' book that says mom's nutrition doesn't have much to do with it (except in extreme cases of malnutrition, and b12 being the only vegan item of concern) but she doesn't believe books/research, says it is always changing and you can't believe it. *sigh*

She knows it annoys the hell out of me, but whatever I say goes in one ear and out the other. She does the same thing with the 'just let him cry it out', 'you spoiled him by picking him up all the time', all that stuff. Yadda Yadda Yadda. I know she means well, I mean I love my mom, but I think she just likes repeating the same things over and over again to hear herself nag.

I know I shouldn't let it bother me but it is hard when I'm worried about Kai being so skinny he isn't even on the WHO growth chart. At least I'm happy to report he gained 1.5 lbs since the last visit and is up to 10 lbs 8 oz. Still not on the chart, but much closer.

I also just googled "skinny baby" and read a bunch of threads just like this one by non-vegan moms too, so I feel better.

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 Post subject: Re: Petite vegan baby
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:26 pm 
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My kid is almost two and weighs 25lb. Most people I know have no problem with this and she is just fine. Her language is all over and again most people think she's normal, but I am secretly having anxiety. So, just when I got over her tiny build I started to worry about her tiny sentences (or lack thereof). Will this never end?

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 Post subject: Re: Petite vegan baby
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:51 pm 
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Sra. Nooch wrote:
My kid is almost two and weighs 25lb. Most people I know have no problem with this and she is just fine. Her language is all over and again most people think she's normal, but I am secretly having anxiety. So, just when I got over her tiny build I started to worry about her tiny sentences (or lack thereof). Will this never end?


yep my kid is 20months and only about 25lbs at 32inches tall. But she is strong as fork and eats a ton of varied foods. I have bad anxiety about her speech, there hasn't been much progress on this at all...but she understands full sentences, commands and questions so I'm trying to stay posi and listen only to the people who tell me "she will probably start talking anyyyyy day now". Hmph. My secret guilt is that she stays home with her papa, so I worry that she isn't stimulated enough to talk - it's not like he's parking her in front of the TV, not at all, but I'm jealous of all the parents with kids who picked up quite a bit of language at daycare etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Petite vegan baby
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:12 pm 
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Aubade wrote:
My mom tells me I feed Kai too much also! Go figure. She says, "oh he can't be hungry again! Why don't you give him a bottle of formula instead?" This despite the fact that I repeatedly explained to her I have to keep breastfeeding him as much as possible to keep my supply up!

She thinks formula is better and something is wrong with my milk because i don't get enough protein. I literally read her lines from the 'making more milk' book that says mom's nutrition doesn't have much to do with it (except in extreme cases of malnutrition, and b12 being the only vegan item of concern) but she doesn't believe books/research, says it is always changing and you can't believe it. *sigh*


Are you related to my MIL or mom? Both MIL and my mom said I feed my kids too much. MIL said feed on a schedule (4 times a day, 10 minutes on each boob) and stop night feeds, my mom said to put cereal in a bottle because they will be fuller and sleep better (my second baby started solids a few months ago and he still has no interest in sleeping through the night, it hasn't made a bit of difference).

Also, my MIL said I put on too much weight when I got pregnant. I was 98 pounds (which was unusually skinny for me anyway) and I put on 40 pounds. Big forking deal. HER doctor, thirty-some years ago, told her not to put on more than a stone and a half (21 pounds) -- she said something similar to what your mom said about how research is always changing, so you can't believe it. She nagged me so much about it, I lied and told her I lost it all when I was still 10-12 pounds heavier when I got pregnant with #2 (and maxed out at the same weight I did with #1). I don't have a problem with my weight and I'm probably healthier weighing 112 as a lactating momma than if I was still skinny, but OMG, her doctor said not to put on more than 21 pounds, clearly, I am going to die of obesity. (I hate weight-haters, whether they act like you are too skinny or too fat.) /rant.

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 Post subject: Re: Petite vegan baby
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:14 am 
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so i finally got to talk to the nurse at my son's pediatrician's office and he gained 4 ounces in 4 months, but grew almost 2inches. i am having a bad momma moment.


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 Post subject: Re: Petite vegan baby
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:02 am 
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coldandsleepy wrote:

I wanted to add... someone's got to be in the 5th percentile. That's how percentiles work!


Yes! Thank you! Seriously, that is such a ridiculous way to measure this.

And I just came in to add that my niece is NOT vegan and she's TINY! There's no question that she's healthy and thriving, but when she first started walking, people would freak out and ask how old she was in amazement because they thought she was like 5 months. Plus she eats like a champ.

So don't let people try to give you crepe about your adorable tiny, vegan babies. Non-vegan babies can be tiny too, and tiny babies can be right on track.


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 Post subject: Re: Petite vegan baby
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 8:26 pm 
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Amen, Sister! My great niece is a petite baby, whose mother happens to be vegan, particularly intelligent and a good, intuitive mother to boot.

The baby looks petite to me, not scrawny. her skin looks good, her eyes are bright, she's got a kung fu grip and is talking everyone to death at 4 months.

What is the benefit of increased weight?


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 Post subject: Re: Petite vegan baby
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 1:12 pm 
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I realize this is an old thread. But I am so glad I found it. You all made me feel so much better. And thanks to the person who posted that kelleymom link. I feel like I have a weight lifted off my shoulders. My 20 lb 15 month old has recently decided that he has no interest in eating. I was terribly worried. After reading this thread and that link I feel much better and confident I am doing the right things. xo


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 Post subject: Re: Petite vegan baby
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:42 pm 
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Ok, I'm reviving this thread. My petite baby just had her sixth month check-up and the pedi said she thought her low weight (off the chart) is a breast milk issue. She thinks if I supplemented that Babynut would sleep better (not a complaint I have) and Would put on weight. She doesn't think it's her normal growth pattern to be so small. But she also said that she is developing right on track and the low weight is not harmful to her. She didn't make a big deal about it and said supplementing would be up to us. Her main concern seemed to be the sleeping, which is weird because I don't see her sleep pattern as an issue at all. She sleeps about ten hours every night, sometimes more, and dream feeds two or three times during that period. Isn't that normal? She's happy during the day and takes two naps, usually 2-4 hours total sleep.

I guess I'm just venting here. Also deciding if I really need to supplement. She seems happy, well-rested and on track developmentally. I'm also going to be home with her full-time in a week so no more pumping limitations. Anyone been in this situation?


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 Post subject: Re: Petite vegan baby
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:51 pm 
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I haven't been in that situation, but I agree with your instinct that if she is on track developmentally, and you are going to be home for a while over the summer, I'd just try and do a lot of nursing in the next few months (until her 9 month check up), esp as the MD doesn't seem to have any real concerns.

Also, BBnut is superadorable.

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 Post subject: Re: Petite vegan baby
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:08 pm 
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Yeah, her sleep sounds totally normal to me - Malka's is roughly the same, except she's a worse napper. It really seems like if developmentally she's on track and she's generally happy, then she probably is fine and this is just her normal. When Malka was hungry from not getting enough breast milk early on she made it REALLY OBVIOUS that she wasn't getting enough and her sleep was completely messed up. It was totally obvious to us that she needed supplementation way before she had any major growth problems.


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 Post subject: Re: Petite vegan baby
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:31 pm 
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Butternut wrote:
Ok, I'm reviving this thread. My petite baby just had her sixth month check-up and the pedi said she thought her low weight (off the chart) is a breast milk issue. She thinks if I supplemented that Babynut would sleep better (not a complaint I have) and Would put on weight. She doesn't think it's her normal growth pattern to be so small. But she also said that she is developing right on track and the low weight is not harmful to her. She didn't make a big deal about it and said supplementing would be up to us. Her main concern seemed to be the sleeping, which is weird because I don't see her sleep pattern as an issue at all. She sleeps about ten hours every night, sometimes more, and dream feeds two or three times during that period. Isn't that normal? She's happy during the day and takes two naps, usually 2-4 hours total sleep.

I guess I'm just venting here. Also deciding if I really need to supplement. She seems happy, well-rested and on track developmentally. I'm also going to be home with her full-time in a week so no more pumping limitations. Anyone been in this situation?


I guess if it were me and I had enough milk to supplement with breast milk, I would do it. However, it has been hard enough for me to make enough in the first place. I might consider supplementing with soy formula, but I'm not sure.


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