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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:41 am 
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I'm really concerned about that, c&s. I feel like I'm going to explode if I go more than 3 hours, and one of my classes is 4 hours long, so yeah... Obviously I'm going to have to step out for a little while at some point.

I wanted to ask everyone-- if your baby is starting to sleep longer at night, do your boobs magically figure out that they can slow down at night and let YOU sleep longer? I'm getting pretty frustrated that Scarlett is sometimes sleeping soundly for 4-5 hours and I'm having to get up in the middle of the night to pump a little so I don't get painfully engorged.

Also, it's been 10 weeks and my nipples still hurt every single time I feed her. Blah.


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:41 pm 
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Eventually! I still wake up pretty full in the morning, just not painfully full. Will could go a couple hours before nursing when he wakes up, but I basically latch him on as soon as he's awake. I also nurse every 3-4 hours when I'm home, but amazingly I've been going 5 hours since being back at school (work). I pump at 7 before I leave and 12 or 1230 over my lunch.... so I guess your body just figures things out?

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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:39 pm 
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I'm coming out of lurkdom to seek advice from some fellow vegan nursing moms.

My son is nearly 10 weeks old and, up until now, we've had no breastfeeding issues (so I thought). Since his first week of life, he's nursed frequently (at least 12 times per day) and seemed satisfied afterward. Baby's built a lot like my husband--long and slim--so we knew he was skinnier than other babies of his age, but it turns out he might be having growth issues. At his 2 month appointment a few days ago, he was 7lbs, 14 oz, which is only a little more than a pound heavier than he was at birth. He was born on his due date and his newborn screening results were normal.

The pediatrician seemed concerned about his slow weight gain and suggested I might have supply issues. If anything, I thought I had over supply since my breasts would feel massively full and leak like crazy if I went any longer than two hours without nursing or pumping, even after the point when supply was well established. The doctor (who is usually very pro-breastfeeding) decided to give baby another month to see if growth will pick up again before advising we supplement with formula. He suggested I try to nurse for longer periods of time, pump and bottlefeed expressed milk between feedings.
The thing is, as soon as I started trying to change our normal nursing "flow", my body completely rebelled and now my supply has seriously diminished. I'm nursing about every one and a half hours, then pumping for 20-30 minutes after most day time feedings. (Basically all I do is nurse and pump, at this point.) Tonight, my baby nursed for 30 minutes, gulped down two expressed ounces from a bottle in about 5 minutes, and cried when the bottle was empty as though he was still hungry. I feel like my attempts to feed him more are having the reverse effect. Could this be because my body needs a few more days to "catch up" to this new schedule?
Of course, several people have suggested that baby's not gaining enough because of my vegan diet, which is obviously not helpful and makes me even more frustrated. Baby's generally very happy, reaching appropriate developmental milestones and is strong for his age (rolling over, holding head up well etc.).

Has anyone else had similar issues with super skinny babies?

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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:59 pm 
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Oh, I would definitely recommend seeing a lactation consultant. Especially with oversupply/low supply questions. That way too you can get an idea of how much he is getting at a feeding. And have a plan that works for you. That's annoying that people are linking production with veganism. Do people seriously think they are helping with that, or just knowingly being jerks?!


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:25 pm 
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Seconding Kimba, IBCLCs are really well trained and know all there is to know about BFing. MDs not so much. And make sure your LC is an IBCLC, because its really easy to call yourself an LC after just a short course, while IBCLC has more stringent training reqs.

The other option (and you can and should do both) is to call or email your local LLL leaders and ask them. Our LLL people get back to you so fast and their advice is completely free. If you don't get a response quickly find another group and try them. http://www.llli.org/

Finally, I am sure you know this, but are you drinking enough? Hydration is key :)

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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:12 pm 
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I found that when I was stressed my supply went down, so try and relax (ha, easier said than done!)

Ca you weigh your baby before and after feedings? That way you can see how many ounces he is eating. My son had really slow growth, I had supply problems and I ended up supplementing. I have questioned myself time and again since if I should have done other things, but by four months he had doubled his birth weight. He is now 24 pounds and in the 97th percentile for height. I'm not saying you don't have a problem, but definitely see a LC!


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:04 pm 
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ABadger, I'm going through that myself - my daughter was just 2lbs over birth weight at her 3month appt and the dr said immediately "You need to supplement." He never even asked about my diet (though he did ask if I'm taking my vitamins, and I am) which I was glad for because I don't believe veganism has a thing to do with it.

I'm experiencing pretty much the same nursing situation you are. It really sucks. My daughter gets sleepy when she nurses and I think that she is just not very efficient at nursing perhaps. I pump as often as possible too but don't respond very well to the pump. For now, I am struggling a lot to keep ahead of our pumped milk stash because in addition to nursing on demand, we're giving her 3-4 oz in a bottle twice a day - which she never turns down. She also nurses FOREVER overnight. It hurts that I nurse A TON and then she'll still have a big bottle but I really need to make sure she's getting enough.

I have a can of soy formula (not vegan, but as close as possible and organic) ready to go just in case. I've been taking the Motherlove tincture stuff for about 5 days and already feel that my breasts are fuller during nursing sessions, but it isn't helping me get more out of the pump. Such a tough position to be in. I've spoken with a lactation consultant who wasn't particularly helpful, unfortunately, so I need to make time to consult with another. (The one I spoke to actually said "go ahead and supplement if you have to, you're doing a great job mama!")

I wish you the best and can totally commiserate.


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:34 pm 
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Definitely see a lactation consultant. I did have chronic and uncorrectable low supply, but it was really useful to me to have those weigh-ins before and after nursing to know exactly how much my baby was getting, to have the LC check for any physical abnormalities with the baby (tongue-tie, bad coordination when nursing, weak suck), and suggest ideas for nursing and pumping schedules and give advice on how to bottle feed in a way that wouldn't undermine breastfeeding. Interestingly, my LC said sometimes it's best to supplement after a nursing session, but sometimes, especially if you know how much supplementing they need, it's better to do so beforehand so they will nurse calmly and more efficiently afterwards.

Seeing an LC will also help you know if it's really a supply issue or if there is some other underlying problem that has nothing to do with how much the baby's eating.


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:46 pm 
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I would consider finding a pediatrician who looks at more than weight in determining whether your baby is healthy. It was such a relief to move from the army healthcare system, where they would berate me over differences that were smaller than their scale could register, to a civilian pediatrician who looked at developmental milestones, body shape, and behavior in addition to just going by the growth charts.

And IBCLCs are wonderful, and a local hospital might have a lactation or "latch" clinic where they'll help you do things like pre- and post- feed weighings to determine whether your baby's consuming enough. I would not, however, assume that supplementing is necessary immediately. We had problems nursing that got straightened out with the help of some wonderful LCs - a couple connected to the otherwise problematic army hospital and one private one who did a home visit. You might also call your local LLL chapter for help or a referral. I would definitely see a lactation specialist before supplementing, though, as their perspective will be a little bit different from a pediatrician's, even a nominally "pro-breastfeeding" one. In my experience, all doctors are pro-breastfeeding as long as bfing has every single advantage of formula and no disadvantages whatsoever, and unfortunately that's simply not the case. Boobs don't come with indicators of how many gallons have flowed out like on a gas pump. So in my experience it was definitely worth seeing the [IBC]LCs, without whom I would not have been able to exclusively nurse bf a baby for 6 months. (and we are still going strong at 13mo!)


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:01 pm 
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I don't really know what is being accomplished by breastfeeding, pumping, then feeding what is in the pumped bottles. I can understand breastfeeding, pumping, and storing excess milk. If you are feeding your baby frequently and were making enough milk already. I had to supplement with formula whilst trying to bring my supply back up and for me it helped my stress levels and allowed me to bring my supply back up gradually, it doesn't happen overnight. She drinks one bottle of formula in the day and maybe topped off with an ounce or two before bed. I never give her formula instead of breastfeeding. I only give it if I have breastfed her on both breasts until they were empty, and she is still hungry.


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:32 pm 
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So called a LC about some nipple and breast pain I was having and was told over the phone that it was almost 100% yeast...I hope that we can eradicate it without too much trouble. I'm glad that Mr. Giles doesn't actually seem to have thrush so that he isn't uncomfortable during all this. Doctor said because I have had the pain for a little while now (over 2 weeks because I thought it was a latch issue I was trying to correct) that we should go straight for the big guns so I am on 2 weeks of diflucan. I thought it was interesting though that she recommended using coconut oil on the nipples after nursing because of some type of natural fungicide/antibacterial properties.
I am super glad that he will take a bottle though because I can't stand to have him nurse as often as he needs right now - so I am getting lots of quality time with my pump and Daddy is getting lots of quality time with a bottle and baby.


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:40 pm 
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dragonssister wrote:
I don't really know what is being accomplished by breastfeeding, pumping, then feeding what is in the pumped bottles. I can understand breastfeeding, pumping, and storing excess milk. If you are feeding your baby frequently and were making enough milk already. I had to supplement with formula whilst trying to bring my supply back up and for me it helped my stress levels and allowed me to bring my supply back up gradually, it doesn't happen overnight. She drinks one bottle of formula in the day and maybe topped off with an ounce or two before bed. I never give her formula instead of breastfeeding. I only give it if I have breastfed her on both breasts until they were empty, and she is still hungry.


Babies with weak/ineffective suck or who fall asleep while nursing sometimes do better at getting milk out of bottles because it can be so much faster.


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:41 pm 
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annasrobbie wrote:
So called a LC about some nipple and breast pain I was having and was told over the phone that it was almost 100% yeast...I hope that we can eradicate it without too much trouble. I'm glad that Mr. Giles doesn't actually seem to have thrush so that he isn't uncomfortable during all this. Doctor said because I have had the pain for a little while now (over 2 weeks because I thought it was a latch issue I was trying to correct) that we should go straight for the big guns so I am on 2 weeks of diflucan. I thought it was interesting though that she recommended using coconut oil on the nipples after nursing because of some type of natural fungicide/antibacterial properties.
I am super glad that he will take a bottle though because I can't stand to have him nurse as often as he needs right now - so I am getting lots of quality time with my pump and Daddy is getting lots of quality time with a bottle and baby.


Good luck! We had it for six weeks, thrush is the worst!!! And Diflucan is a miracle.


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:26 pm 
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Ariann wrote:
dragonssister wrote:
I don't really know what is being accomplished by breastfeeding, pumping, then feeding what is in the pumped bottles. I can understand breastfeeding, pumping, and storing excess milk. If you are feeding your baby frequently and were making enough milk already. I had to supplement with formula whilst trying to bring my supply back up and for me it helped my stress levels and allowed me to bring my supply back up gradually, it doesn't happen overnight. She drinks one bottle of formula in the day and maybe topped off with an ounce or two before bed. I never give her formula instead of breastfeeding. I only give it if I have breastfed her on both breasts until they were empty, and she is still hungry.


Babies with weak/ineffective suck or who fall asleep while nursing sometimes do better at getting milk out of bottles because it can be so much faster.


Yes, this. Also for your production in those cases. I had to do this for the first weeks with Carlos. It was rough.


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:55 pm 
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Thanks, everyone. Our next step is to see a lactation consultant if baby badger's growth doesn't pick up. It's just super weird that I used to pump 2-3 ounces per session with my manual pump and in the past week, I've barely been able to get an ounce at a time using a hospital grade electric. My caloric intake has dropped over the past few days, too, which probably isn't helping. Gotta get on that!

On the bright side, baby badger had his first poop in 3 days today! I never thought I'd be so excited about poop. Parenthood does weird things to a person!

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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:42 am 
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Excited to have finally figured out the "laid-back" nursing position. Way comfy! Bonus is that babycrabkins doesn't get choked up by my overactive let-down now so we have none of that coughing, spluttering drama :)


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:25 pm 
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That's awesome! That was recommended to me a lot but it didn't seem to make a difference for us.


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:33 pm 
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Will has three teeth on the bottom now. He hasn't been biting (fingers crossed!), but I think I'm feeling what tofulish described as "tiny shards of glass" when he unlatches.

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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:17 pm 
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Ooh, I hate that! We've gotten it again with the new teeth. Blood = not a fun side of nursing. ((shudder))


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:29 pm 
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I feel like a sow these days with my piglet suckling me from all angles....crawling all over me. Nursing a crawling baby is a challenge. I take her into a dark room, try to get her to lay down and nurse, and then she starts crawling all over me and trying to nurse at the same time. She will not stay still! Her favorite move is rump up in the air and feet on the bed while she tries to stay latched. I need more patience.


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:35 pm 
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Nah...it's a pita. Freya tries to roll over while staying latched, or sometimes to climb on top of me, or tonight, to do some sort of break-dancing foot-spin thing where her feet are on the wall next to the bed. I can't imagine what it's going to be like in another 6 months or so...eek!


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:36 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 5:33 pm 
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We're going through a similar issue right now. poopiebaby turned two in July, and he STILL flips and twists and turns over etc while attempting to keep my nipple in his mouth. I know he's a super-active toddler and it's hard for him to sit still, but COME. ON. He's three feet tall and almost 30 pounds! I can't handle a kick to the face like I used to. Urgh.

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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:54 pm 
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The Emperor's favorite way to nurse for a long time was sitting up, straddling my leg and bouncing up and down vigorously while staying latched on. We called it riding the milk pony.

The Magician only recently stopped nursing in the cradle hold all the time... Now he too has realized he can do zany maneuvers. Noooooo, go back to the old way baby!

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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:18 pm 
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My kid never got into gymnurstics; he has always been way too excited about the milkmilkmilkmilkmilk. But he prefers eating to moving in general, so there you go.


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