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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:00 pm 
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Owie...that sounds terrible! *giggle* at babynut though. :D


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:55 pm 
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I have a sorta friend who had a baby about two and a half weeks ago by planned C-section. She had planned on exclusively breastfeeding. Of course at their two week appointment baby hadn't quite reached birth weight, so they said to start supplementing with formula, which she is doing. Now the baby is not nursing well and is also not tolerating the formula well. I have no idea what kind of support she has with the breastfeeding. I have been checking in with her and dropped off a bunch of food at her house (she wound up unexpectedly delayed at the doctor so wasn't home) the other day and left my copy of Making More Milk with a note inside to feel free to call me for help anytime. I feel like she is being super booby trapped and don't know how to help. She says now they're trying to work on a formula the baby will tolerate better and I just want to be like, stop with the formula! Babies born by C-section are often born a little bit bigger because of the fluids so it is not that meaningful that he wasn't at birth weight at 2 weeks! Nurse more! Drink some mother's tea! Pump! I don't know what to do except reiterate that I can be helpful (I did so much freaking work on my supply and read so, so much and spent so much time at the lactation consultant's), even though I couldn't actually exclusively nurse myself. I really want to help her be successful and don't know how else to do so.

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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:51 pm 
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Doctors can be very, very, VERY pressuring with the birth weight thing. I know mine was and it was only through a lot of education, determined fighting, access to good LCs, and a friend willing to overnight me frozen milk from her own stash that I avoided using formula. Is she in contact with a good IBCLC? You know this, but a lot of hospitals have non-certified/poorly trained LCs because it's just not a priority (and the demand has grown so quickly). It took both hospital LCs and a couple of home visits from a private LC to get me sorted out, but it's money so well spent. Good luck to your friend!! Can you offer to call LLL for her? A lot of the leaders will go above and beyond to help people.


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:29 pm 
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Oy. Yeah, I know it's tough. I will ask her about calling LLL. I know our local leaders are really good. She says she's seen an LC, but I don't know if it was in hospital or after. She gave birth at what I consider to be the sucky local hospital, I don't know how their LCs are and honestly, I don't know how helpful seeing an LC in the hospital before your milk comes in is anyway.

We're not super close or I would be helping more aggressively. Even as it is now I feel like I might be crossing some boundaries.


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:56 pm 
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most hospital LC's don't know crapola! She has to talk to an IBCLC if she wants to actually do this. LLL is amazing though. They were there for me when I needed them :)

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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:17 pm 
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Ariann, you are a great friend. And it sounds like your friend is indeed falling into "the booby trap". (Also, is it her first baby by chance? sounds like a lot of what I went through the first time; this time I had a much more relaxed approach as well as a more reasonable dr.)


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:30 pm 
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Here is my 2 cents on advising anyone. I think its such a fine line between pressuring and advising, and MDs cross it all the time. So as friends, we really should be very mindful of the fact that our friends are already being pressured, and make sure that we're not just adding to the pressure. I think its more important for a friend to be empowered around the choice than for them to breastfeed. I generally give people the email addresses of our local LLL leaders and my IBCLC and say that I am around to help too. And if they take it up or not, the choice is theirs

Its rough though to see someone getting booby trapped or otherwise end up in a bad situation. Sometimes someone will tell me where they are birthing, and I'll suggest they consider alternatives, but so far everyone has said "Oh no, I love my OB/midwife and I'm pretty certain that I'll have a great experience." And then they don't, and it is so hard for them, but at least you advised without pressuring. It sucks but 2 of our local hospitals are pretty aggressive with interventions.

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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:15 pm 
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Urgh. If the mom is still wanting to go back to ebf, then encourage her to get help *now*. She can always switch to formula later if that's what she decides, but getting off to a good start bf'ing is important if you plan to continue.

I've posted before that we too, started formula because of the "not gaining quick enough" sort of nonsense. One of the most bittersweet moments I had was later, when we saw the pediatrician who attended Freya at birth. She reminded me that large babies often climb back to their birth weight more slowly. Also, more importantly, she said to trust yourself and really look at the whole picture. That is, how are baby's skin and eyes? Are they pooping/peeing well? Do they sleep well after a feed? Are they generally content? Freya was happy and alert a very lot of the time, even as a teeny tiny baby. It's taken me a lot of time to get over not trusting myself more that she was doing fine.

There are some really good resources on KellyMom too (I will try and find the exact page) about how to wean off formula in a gentle, baby friendly way. :)


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:45 am 
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I have a question about foremilk/hindmilk imbalance. A nurse I spoke to at the pediatrician's office thinks that I'm overproducing milk and Vivian is getting too much foremilk when she nurses. She gets full before she gets enough hindmilk. The nurse thinks this because Vivian's poops are dark green. They were a mustard yellow for a while then changed to green a couple of weeks ago. I assumed this was just a change that happened as she got older. She is gaining weight and has plenty of dirty diapers. The nurse suggested I pump about an ounce before I nurse her so that she gets more hind milk. This isn't as easy as it sounds especially when she wakes up hungry. "Sorry baby, you need to scream for a few minutes while mommy pumps." No thank you. So I don't pump before feeding during the late night/early morning hours. Also it seems my right breast is the over producer because it's always full and it only takes a minute or two to pump an ounce.

I just started the pump before nursing on Friday and Vivian's poops are still dark green. I feel guilty/anxious/etc. that my baby may not be getting good enough nutrition from me and I'm wondering if I should give her at least one bottle of formula a day.

Plus my poor nipples are sore and sensitive all the time :(


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:52 am 
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Do you feed with both boobs every time? I heard an easier way than pumping is to just feed them with one boob (and then the next time you feed them, use the other boob).

BTW, both my kids had green poops and were really colicky and I was given all kinds of advice and none of it helped. They outgrew it by 4-5 months (my kids were unusually colicky, though, I think).

My left boob is the overachiever. I swear, I could breastfeed twins just with ol' leftie.

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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:14 pm 
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I used to feed with both boobs every time because that's what she wanted. After a few weeks she stopped wanting the second boob so now we just use one boob and switch boobs for the next feeding. I assume I started producing more milk so she didn't need the second boob anymore. I figured this out when I pumped on my right boob (after she nursed on the left) and got 4 ounces in about 10 minutes. When she nurses on the right side she gets full quickly and doesn't "empty" the boob. I'm hoping that my milk adjusts to her needs so I don't get so full and don't need to pump as much.

BTW I just looked up LLL in my area and there is a meeting this week so I'm going to be attending that.


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:09 pm 
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Hopefully a LLL leader can give you some good advice. The green poo can be from oversupply, I wouldn't worry about supplementing formula though as long as she is having appropriate wet diapers, happy, and gaining weight she is getting plenty of nutrition! Block feeding (feeding on one breast only for 4-6 hours before offering the second breast for 4-6 hours) can ensure baby is getting hindmilk AND reduce an oversupply, but I personally would want to do that with some guidance from a lactation specialist because you don't want to dial your supply back too far. I think Tofulish had oversupply that she dealt with for Leela - if you see pictures of the lovely and plump Leela you can feel assured despite the whole oversupply/green poop issue she got plenty of good nutrition ;)


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:16 pm 
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http://kellymom.com/

Biodancer, if you don't know about this website, here is a link. It is helpful with tons of questions and worries about breastfeeding and will help with the block feeding info.

You are doing great! It's so hard in the beginning, but it will get better in terms of the worrying and nipple soreness.


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:38 pm 
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I am concerned about dialing back my supply too much but my boobs are so full and tender most of the time that I think I can do with a decrease in supply. I'm not returning to work until June and even then that's only one-two days a week, so I wasn't planning on pumping to store milk until next month. I won't be back to work full time until August. I think what I am going to do is feed her from one breast when she is hungry. I just nursed her from my right breast and she nursed about 12 minutes. She is sleeping now and when she wakes up hungry I will nurse her from the left.


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:47 pm 
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the nurse is a bit nutty, imo. pumping before the baby nurses just tells your body that it needs to make more milk. you can do light block feeding on your own. again, as long as you aren't restricting baby's feeds, or supplementing with formula, milk out is milk out, and your body will adjust production. try feeding one side only two feeds in a row. also, try massaging your breast (hand in a c shape) when baby slows down from the suck-pause-swallow pattern until she starts swallowing again. this encourages her to fully drain the breast, and also helps move the fatty milk out (supposedly). some babies may nurse only till they aren't hungry, and need to be encouraged to really fill up. how many letdowns do you feel in one nursing session?


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:59 am 
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I just wanted to say good luck, try not to be so hard on yourself, and keep at it! There's also some debate about fore/hind milk... my LC was telling me some cultures nurse every hour for 5 minutes and their babies are fine!

I started to nurse just one side at maybe 2 or 3 weeks (I can't remember how old Vivian is?). Also, I don't know about pumping before every feeding, but pumping just once in the morning seemed to really help me (and it built a nice freezer stash).

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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:10 am 
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Hope things are going well biodancer!

I just wanted to comment on the block feeding - I suggested that in my opinion I would do it under the guidance of a lactation consultant - I recommend that because of my personal experience with block feeding dialing my supply back too far and then having to rebuild. It was one of the many,many factors that put me in the position of exclusively pumping that I'm in today. I can't recall the specifics of how long I did block feeding but I remember it was so quick from gobs and gobs of too much milk to all of a sudden baby is fussing and refusing the breast because there wasn't enough milk. When I did see my LC she said that she sees that problem frequently from people doing block feeding on their own. I'm sure many people are able to do it just fine on their own, but that horrible feeling of realizing that you do not have enough milk for your baby is not something I want for anyone else!


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:23 pm 
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Vivian will be 6 weeks old tomorrow. I talked to an LC yesterday and she didn't like the pumping idea. She talked to me about block feeding and I started that yesterday. The problem now? Vivian decided to hit her 6 week growth spurt last night and today. She has been cluster feeding. On one hand I'm much more comfortable because my boobs aren't as full and hard, but now I'm concerned this is going to make my oversupply even worse and my boobs might just explode. I left a message with the LC and I'm going to a local LLL meeting on Thursday. Hopefully I can work this out. On a good note, Vivian's last poop diaper was a much lighter color than the spinach green color she's been having.


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:36 pm 
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fwiw biodancer, Sierra had mostly green diapers for the first 2 months of her life. She had some of the classic mustard-y ones, but there were always at least 2 green diapers a day. Nothing I did seemed to change that fact, and I was in contact with a lc who told me it was oversupply as well but block feeding didn't seem to help. I kinda just came to the conclusion that Sierra's digestion system was just figuring things out and it slowly stopped.


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:46 pm 
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Audrey, I've read several websites that say not to worry about the color of poop. Plus my mom and her friend both thought green poop was normal because that's what their babies always had. I'm just going to be happy that she is happy and gaining weight and let myself worry.


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:44 pm 
Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
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Biodancer, my little ones' both had green poops when they were wee. It just took a while for my boobs to settle down and mesh properly with what the boys needed. They both got enough milk, and are happy and healthy. Glad you've got a solution that's working for you!

On another note, does anyone know a good rule of thumb for how much a baby generally eats/drinks?

EDIT: I realized Kelly Mom has info on this. I guess I need to accumulate about 18oz of milk by my appointment! Anyway, any tips on having Dad feed baby? Zeph hates bottles, but he loves to drink from a small glass. My partner's only tried to feed him a few times, and it ended in disaster. It's been quite a while though, and Zeph can use a cup now, so hopefully it will go better.

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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:42 am 
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well, everything i've heard suggests that if mom is around, baby is going to know it and hold out for their preferred method of feeding, if mom normally nurses. if mom is gone, baby will figure that out and be more likely to accept other methods. if he's eating solids, his dad could try that as well. i've had the most success with short fat bottle nipples, and with having baby lie tummy to tummy with me, rather than cradling her on her back in my arm.

how old is zeph again? and how long is your appointment? 18oz seems like a lot. i feed before i leave, and leave a 3 oz bottle for about a 4-5 hour absence, and assume baby will be ready to eat when i get home. if i want more leeway i leave 5 oz.


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:15 am 
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Just to folllow up, Vivian is still wanting to nurse frequently and most of her poops are still dark green. There is no way she is not getting hindmilk with the amount and the frequency she is feeding.


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:39 am 
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Zeph and Giles are right around the same age - he eats 14 oz while I am gone for an 8 hour day - but that includes his first feeding of the day since his Dad gets him up in the morning - so I would think 18 oz would be overkill unless zeph has a huge appetite!


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:55 am 
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littlebird wrote:
well, everything i've heard suggests that if mom is around, baby is going to know it and hold out for their preferred method of feeding, if mom normally nurses. if mom is gone, baby will figure that out and be more likely to accept other methods. if he's eating solids, his dad could try that as well. i've had the most success with short fat bottle nipples, and with having baby lie tummy to tummy with me, rather than cradling her on her back in my arm.

how old is zeph again? and how long is your appointment? 18oz seems like a lot. i feed before i leave, and leave a 3 oz bottle for about a 4-5 hour absence, and assume baby will be ready to eat when i get home. if i want more leeway i leave 5 oz.



Ooops, in my edit I took away a lot of pertinent info. Zeph will be about 10 months then. I am having some dental work done with sedation, and they've recommended not to nurse for the rest of the day. I will be napping and then a bit out of it, so I won't be able to feed baby, and I know that's probably going to make it harder for my partner to feed him. My partner is supposed to stay with me the whole day though, so he can't just take the kids out all day.

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