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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:52 am 
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ol' garly cooch
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aubade, are you working with a lac consultant? it shouldn't hurt at all. nursing should be a relief. some lac consultants work on a sliding fee. you can always go to a lll meeting too. we're lucky to live in a super progressive town where there are lac consultants at the pediatrician's office and all staff are required to be knowledgeable about bf.

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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:36 am 
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jewbacca wrote:
aubade, are you working with a lac consultant? it shouldn't hurt at all. nursing should be a relief. some lac consultants work on a sliding fee. you can always go to a lll meeting too. we're lucky to live in a super progressive town where there are lac consultants at the pediatrician's office and all staff are required to be knowledgeable about bf.

Well, it doesn't hurt when I nurse, only when I pump. But I have been thinking about contacting a lac consultant. I have a ped appt. Mon when I'll find out how much Kai has gained. I suspect it won't be enough because he doesn't seem that much heavier. If it doesn't go well then I'll def. Call one.

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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:04 pm 
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jewbacca wrote:
what torque said. i've had to supplement with formula for both children and have given up feeling guilty about it. most women don't even try to breast feed. some women can't because of a health issue. some women can pump a gazillion gallons of milk. some women sacrifice everything-(time, sleep, etc.) under the sun to pump just a few more ounces of milk per day. some are like me, pump what i can and supplement with the rest. we're still mommies no matter what.


Yes! What I find is strange is people who can breastfeed that don't and people who have a hard time breastfeeding who just quit all together. No judgement, it just never crossed my mind to stop breastfeeding when I had to supplement. So many I know just were one or the other.

I just did what I could and am finally not feeling guilty about it too.


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:17 am 
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So I go back to work on tues and have a major problem- I only have about 4 oz saved up. I had a lactation consultant come since i last posted, and that helped with his latch, but she also felt i had a supply issue and recommended i take more milk plus herbs. She said not to pump until i could get him fed enough. The herbs definitely helped, but just enough to get him fed, not extra.

So I thought we would have to supplement. Unfortunately I tried 3 soy types over the past month, and at first he likes them but after 2-3 feedings he develops a reaction and power vomits up the entire feeding and won't drink it again. I tried powdered baby's only organic, enfamil prosobee, and ready to drink gerber gentle soy. Now I don't know what to do.

The biggest problem with pumping is one of my breasts doesn't have enough tissue and only produces a little,so he mainly gets most milk from one breast. So I cant really pump while feeding. When I do manage to fit in a pump between feedings, I get maybe a half ounce from one and 1/8 oz from the other. At that rate, I don't think I can get 9 oz by tues. I'm going to try pumping like crazy, but I don't have high hopes because sometimes none will come out at all.

I already called his pediatrician and am just waiting for her to call me back. I'm worried h will tell me to try cows milk formula which obv I don't want to do.

Does anyone happen to have any suggestions?

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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:50 am 
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I'm sorry, Aubade. I haven't dealt with this issue personally, but you should do whatever you need to do to make sure Kai is healthy. See what the pediatrician says. The vegan police can cart me away, but I wouldn't hesitate to try cow's milk formula (or something else--are there other types of formula?) if Kai isn't tolerating soy well. I know it's not what you want for him, but maybe it would only have to be a short-term solution.


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:18 pm 
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ol' garly cooch
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kelly mom is a great site. i used to have major hang ups about how much i pumped. acc. to that site, it sometimes takes 2-3 pumping sessions to get what an infant eats in one sitting. so don't beat yourself up for not being able to pump enough. women who report pumping buckets and buckets spend most of their day pumping! i don't know about you, but i got shiitake to do. when i pumped at work i did what i could, breast fed at home, and one or two feedings had to get supplemented with formula.

i supplemented with both children. it's okay. it doesn't mean you're a bad mommy or less of a woman. both kids drank cow milk formula too. i'm the only vegan in the family. my kids are raised vegetarian-(i can't get mr. j on the vegan wagon, so this is a compromise), but both kids lean towards the vegan side anyway.

be nice to yourself, especially that first week back--it's a hard transition.

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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:57 pm 
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Thanks ladies. I've been reading Kelly mom a lot. I also read there he should get 20 - 30 oz a day. At most I think we could do 8 feedings- morning, 3 at childcare, when I get home, before bed, midnight, 3am. So that's 3 oz per feeding. If I'm getting 1/2 oz per pump, that's 6 pumps per feeding! I don't see how it's possible. I'm hoping I'll get more per pump at work. Or maybe I'll just keep sleeping with him so he can eat more all night, and that will make up for the day.

I also read most babies with milk intolerance will also be allergic to soy so I wonder if he'll even be able to drink milk formula? I guess I'll see what the dr. says. I'm still waiting for her to call back.

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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:07 pm 
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ol' garly cooch
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don't forget the machine is no match for the mouth. he's probably getting a lot more drinking from the tap. the machine will not extract what the mouth will! if he's poopin' and wetting the appropriate amount of diapers, he's getting enough.

stay away from basil, mint, and sage. they'll dry you.

eat lots of kale and dill. they're galactagogues.

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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:40 pm 
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aubade, is he gaining well? peeing and pooping and alert and generally happy and all that jazz? if he is, i highly doubt he is not getting enough from you through straight breastfeeding. so now your only issue is to decide what to do about his feeds at work.

things to try:

getting plenty of liquids, calories and rest. hah, i know, but try your best. i saw a huge difference in output on days i drank well... even now.

trying a different pump. some pumps just don't work as well, or you might not have the right sized flanges or the right pressure.

try all the herbs, teas and whatnot you can get your hands on. i know for some people they make a huge difference.

nurse and/or pump more frequently between 3am and whenever you leave for work. often your supply is really highest during those hours, so it's a good time to fill up the baby and work on building your supply.

try some different pumping techniques. even the breast which doesn't produce as much can still be stimulated while nursing, power-pumping, pumping before and after nursing, etc. only you know how much time and effort you want to put into this, there isn't a right answer for everyone.

remember that breastfeeding is a cycle. the more you put in (calories, liquids) the more milk that comes out. the more that comes out (frequent feeding, frequent pumping), the more that gets made. i question the lc telling you not to pump, unless she's concerned you aren't getting enough rest or stressing too much about it. more stimulation means more milk, not sure how pumping could negatively affect that.

look into milk donors if you want to avoid formula and you aren't able to keep up with pumping.


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:37 pm 
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Aubade, have you tried a soft-fit breastshield? I find them MUCH more comfy, and I think I'm able to pump more because of that.

Hope you figure out something that works for you and Kai!

jewbacca wrote:
eat lots of kale and dill. they're galactagogues.

Ooh. Good to know. Dill is one of my favorite herbs, so any excuse to eat more dill is great thing in my book!


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:05 pm 
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Helbury- I did look for a soft shield online, but couldn't find one. Where did you get yours? I think that might help me because pumping still hurts me and the lac consultant didn't really have a solution for that except to put some earth mama balm on it. It's like the flange rubs my skin and irritates it, no matter what size flange. (I tried all 3 sizes)

And thanks for all the suggestions little bird. I tried most of them except pumping between 3 and 5 am since 2 - 5 is the only 3 hr stretch of sleep I usually get.

The lc told me not to pump because she was concerned about how much rest I was getting. At the time before the herbs kicked in, he was nursing about every hour during the day, and taking 30 - 40 min! he had only just had his first few nights of sleeping for a 3 hr stretch so we were already nursing as much as humanely possible.

Now it is better but he still only goes about 1.5 hrs between feedings during the day, except for the occasional 2 or 3 hr nap. But those dont happen regularly, and usually it is when I have him in his mei tai or hold him, so no pumping then.

I guess i could have tried to pump more when the herbs kicked in, but Just knowing it would take 18 pumps for 1 days worth of feedings was so discouraging. And giving him soy formua didn't seem so bad. But now that we dont have that option it's a different ballgame.

I finally heard from our ped and she said I should try the Alimentum formula, which is from cows milk. She also said something really weird. She thinks Kai doesn't have a soy allergy, but actually can't break down milk proteins since I've never had milk in my diet and he hasn't been exposed. She said soy formula has a percentage of milk protein even though the label doesn't say so. I dont believe that - I think it would be illegal not to say i t contained milk. This is the 3rd time I've had problems with this dr. I'm finding a new one.

For now i adjust going to try my damnedest to pump enough for tues. I got 1 oz so far today and am going to try again before bed. If I can get 1.5 oz each day till then we can make it...then see how much can get while at work.

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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:59 pm 
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yeah, that dairy allergy that sounds like the cow/casien allergy that babes get, so she might not know bfing well.

As for alimentum (sp), a gf of mine, who has a slew of allergies herself used it to supp when her daughter developed a dairy allergy, and it worked for them. Although keeping Kai vegan would be nice, keeping him fed is more important.

As for pumping at work, do what you can, if you can pump for each missed feeding in about the same way that Kai would do- i.e. one breast or two, it sounds like you might be doing one sided nursing? another friend of mine nursed three girls for two years plus each, all with one producing boob, she was teaching school with the first one too. Anyway, it might take a week or so for your body to start giving the same output as it would for Kai, but it will get into the swing.

Also, pumping never was comfortable for me, it got better, but always felt rough, but honestly, although the consultants all say the little man has a great latch now, i get irritated by his sucking too, although less so.

I'll be thinking of you as you make this transition. If you haven't seen it, you might want to get a copy of 'the milk memos', a book for and by working, pumping moms, i didn't read it until after i stopped working, and i wished i had had it when i was, i have given copies to a few friends because i thought it was so good.

eta: i had a yeast infection basically from day one and it didn't get diagnosed until a few weeks before i went back to work (thank you peds who don't understand bfing), they told me to dump all i had stored, and i only ever had milk from the day before for each day. I was never able to save anything up until the last few weeks before we moved.

Again, sending you lots of milky, peaceful vibes.


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:41 pm 
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I had problems finding the soft fit breastshields, but I finally found them at my local babies r us.


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:47 pm 
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I just pumped for 20 minutes, and got exactly two drops.

This is how it has always been for me, and while I'm really lucky that we run our own business from home and I've always been able to breast feed on demand, I am ready for a break.

I haven't been apart from poopiebaby except for once (for 1 hour and 15 minutes) in the last six months. I love him, but I need a break. Mr poopie doesn't seem to understand (how could he?). I don't want to go out or do anything crazy, I really just want to leave him with my sister for a few hours so I can clean my apartment and maybe take a nap. Or, God forbid, let mr poopie get up one of the eight times in the night to rock him and feed him back to sleep.

I'm exhausted, and frustrated, and after trying and failing (yet again) to pump, I suggested that maybe a little formula isn't the worst thing in the world, but mr poopie wouldn't even discuss it. I'm so upset with him right now because I know he wants what's best for poopiebaby (as if I don't!), but maybe what's best for him is a mummy who isn't emotionally drained and at her wit's end - he won't even consider that it might be more important for me to have a break than it is for poopiebaby to not have a bottle of formula here and there.

I just need a hug, so, so bad right now.

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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:13 pm 
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I'm so sorry poopie. I totally know how you feel. Sitting around nursing doesn't seem like much, but it really is draining to be needed 24-7. Big hugs!

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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:21 pm 
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you need to send mr. poopie to this thread so we can all give him a stern typing to! your emotional well-being IS just as valuable to your baby's quality of life!

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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:41 pm 
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wow poopie, that's really rough. this time really does pass so so quickly though, even if you don't come to an agreement about giving formula. before you know it, he will be going longer and longer between feeds and taking solids all of which will give you a break from the incessant nursing. at 6 months you could really probably stretch the times between some feedings to more like 3-4 hours, and you could also consider not feeding quite as frequently at night at this age too. so, mr. poopie can certainly take on a night waking or two, and use other methods of soothing back to sleep.

anyway, none of that really solves the problem of mr.poopie not being supportive of your feelings. i think you should leave the baby more frequently, even if it still is only for short periods at a time. maybe it won't be a few hours, but 2 hours to browse a bookshop and drink a soy latte is still enough time to restore some sanity (or a 1 hour yoga class, etc), and if it's a nap you're after, than mr. poopie is more than capable of taking himself and baby out somewhere and letting you veg. i really do think it's possible to be well balanced and sane without supplementing with formula or the hassles of pumping.


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:39 am 
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Btw, Does anyone know what is bad about supplementing with formula? I can find lots of info on why breastilk is better than all formula, that's obvious. But what harm can an occasional bottle of formula do, especially in an older baby? I can't find any info about that...

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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 1:37 pm 
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I'm sorry, poopie. You must be feeling so frustrated. But think what you've already accomplished: you've exclusively breastfed poopiebaby for 6 months! That is huge. Soon he'll be eating solids and you can get a break. Mr. Poopie needs to get things in perspective. I know I am a better mom when I've had enough rest and a few minutes to myself. That is so much more valuable than any individual feeding. I overrule Mr. Poopie: leave Peter with your sister, pack him some formula, and enjoy a long hot shower and a nap. Go get a massage! 6 months is too long not to have any time to yourself. (((((hugs))))))


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 3:54 pm 
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Also, jildez, thanks for the good vibes! I'm trying not to think about tues more than I have to because it makes me physically ill...

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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:04 pm 
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Aubade, hugs!

Poopie, hugs!


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:48 pm 
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Kai did ok today wuhoo! A little extra crying in the morning, but then he was ok. He's all smiles now. I am so relieved!!

He ate about 5.5 oz, so I've got 3 left. Unfortunately I only managed to pump 3 more oz total today in 3 15 min sessions. So he'll have enough tomorrow (6 oz) but might have to get formula the next day. :(

I hoped to fit in another session but it took so long btwn setting up & washing parts! Also, the motor is so loud I'm sure everyone in my office heard it. I was so embarrassed! Ugh pumping sucks. I really hope my supply doesn't go down.

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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:18 pm 
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just wanted to reply to you aubade, you don't have to take apart your pump and wash everything every time! breastmilk (especially since it's being drunk the next day!) is good at room temperature for up to 8 hours. so you can set up the pump at work and either leave the bottles attached to the pump and just pump into them, or if you prefer, remove the bottles, put in the refrigerator and attach new bottles. all the bits don't have to be washed though. if you have room, you could toss the whole thing in a large ziplock and store in the fridge, but just leaving it out is fine too. i hope that helps you save a little time tomorrow!


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:18 pm 
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So glad you and Kai were okay today. I was thinking of you.


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 Post subject: Re: the lactation station: share your breast feedin' stuff h
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:52 am 
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Aubade wrote:
Btw, Does anyone know what is bad about supplementing with formula? I can find lots of info on why breastilk is better than all formula, that's obvious. But what harm can an occasional bottle of formula do, especially in an older baby? I can't find any info about that...

The main issue is that replacing feeds with formula affects your supply, which I think is a bigger deal for people with low supply. I also remember hearing (for younger babies) it can trigger allergies (much like how early weaning can).

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