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 Post subject: I need to vent about my new-ish rescue dog
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:17 am 
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So I have 2 rescue dogs and we're all ( husband, myself and 2 kids ) quite attached to them so they aren't going anywhere. BUT....I'm very frustrated because I wanted dog friendly dogs. I made sure in the description of each dog that they were stated to be dog friendly. We had our sweet wonderful beloved 12 year old doberman pass away just a few months ago and though I loved him with all my heart he did not like other dogs. Only his 4 approved dog buddies ( our other dog who passed away a couple years prior, my sister's dog, my in-laws dog and our pointer mix we got once we moved and had our yard fenced ) were ok.
Not a big deal EXCEPT where we now live freakin' everybody lets their dogs run around off leash at parks and in the woods on trails and stuff so I could hardly take him anywhere. :-( People would let their dog run up to mine and they would yell out "He's friendly" to which I would respond "MINE'S NOT!!"
ugh. SO. I thought it would be a good idea to make sure I don't have that problem again.
Well guess what. Even though the profile on both my dogs stated they are dog friendly, they aren't. They like each other and that's it. I'm very frustrated to be in this position again and quite disappointed. The pointer mix was picked up as a stray so I don't know her background. The doberman had a loving home but his previous owner was developing serious health problems and could no longer care for him.
feels good to vent to other animal lovers....


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 Post subject: Re: I need to vent about my new-ish rescue dog
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:13 pm 
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My sister has a dog who used to be really aggressive, especially on-leash, around other dogs. She was a nightmare to walk because she'd lunge and go crazy. For reasons unrelated to O's issues, they hired a dog walker, who walks her clients' dogs in large groups. She explained that the dogs naturally form a pack when they walk together and that the pack hierarchy works to her advantage. From the get-go, O was just about an angel on walks with the dog walker because she learned from the other dogs that she wasn't the alpha and that it just wasn't a big deal to meet other dogs. It took time, but she's made a lot of improvements even on solo walks with my sister. None of which is to say you should hire a dog walker, just that there might be hope for a dog-reactive dog to learn to interact more successfully with other dogs. So, good luck, I guess?

I totally hear you on the "Oh, it's OK, he's friendly!" type dog owners... Ugh, people. Your dog might be great, but you're making it really hard for responsible owners who know their dogs' limitations and have them on a leash for a reason. That, and there are people who don't like dogs, are allergic to dogs, are phobic of dogs and I think they have a right to not have unrestrained dogs running at them right, left and center.

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 Post subject: Re: I need to vent about my new-ish rescue dog
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:10 pm 
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That can be a pain. I have my dog who we adopted a month ago and are still learning more about his temperament. He's unfixed (soon to be neutered, though) and some dogs sense it and despite our efforts to keep him on a leash away from other dogs, some people still run up to us with their dogs saying that theirs are friendly, not paying mind to whether ours is. He's part Chow, and part Retriever, but that doesn't mean he is more one than the other, and I mean, he's a dog, so his reactions aren't always to one end of the spectrum. We're still learning how to train him, too, so that further complicates things. It's annoying to have to give them the "Oh, my dog isn't friendly so we have to go before he breaks your dog in half" run down when they've already come up and leashes are starting to get tangled. It isn't even like Moose is not dog friendly, he just wants what they don't, and they get feisty.

Sometimes we can get a good walk in when and where others aren't around. We live in a busy part of the city, so it isn't always best to go when I want to, but when I know other people won't be out. Also, when Moose ran with my dad's dog, he seemed to be calmer around other dogs for the whole week and didn't really pay them mind. My dad's dog Kramer is non-reactive though and couldn't really give a damn less about other dogs, so my puppy's antics really didn't get to him. In fact, he was put in check as often as he'd try something, so I think it benefitted him overall to be around another very sedate but 'you-cross-that-line-and-i'll-still-put-you-in-line' kind of dog. I hope you can find more dogs for them to hang around, so you can give them even more good experiences with dogs.


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 Post subject: Re: I need to vent about my new-ish rescue dog
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:20 pm 
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monkeytoes wrote:
I totally hear you on the "Oh, it's OK, he's friendly!" type dog owners... Ugh, people. Your dog might be great, but you're making it really hard for responsible owners who know their dogs' limitations and have them on a leash for a reason. That, and there are people who don't like dogs, are allergic to dogs, are phobic of dogs and I think they have a right to not have unrestrained dogs running at them right, left and center.

THIS. THIS. THIS. You're dogs should be on leash, even if they have amazing recall something bad could happen to them. Even though your dog is on leash and with you, you're somehow the crasshole whose dog got nervous being rushed.

Party loves other dogs, but he's weird/unpredictable outside and on leash with other dogs. Due to his size and breed reputation, I'd rather avoid the whole scene in case it goes badly yet somehow he's amazing with them inside our house.

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 Post subject: Re: I need to vent about my new-ish rescue dog
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:08 pm 
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Yes. Yes. Yes. Emily is a blue heeler/border collieish girl that, at the rescue, got along great with everyone, but on leash with us, reacts to all dogs except ones she knows. And even then, she just tolerates them. And I hate it hate it hate it when the above mentioned scenario happens...dogs charging us, even if they are wanting to play, and me knowing that Emily will only want to fight them. It's stressful and it makes me only want to walk her super early, when no one else is on the street.

My last canine companion also did not care for other dogs, and I too tried to adopt dogs that were dog-friendly.
My other girl, Scout is great with other dogs, but is kind of a scaredy-cat.

How I do love them both, though.

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 Post subject: Re: I need to vent about my new-ish rescue dog
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:11 pm 
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I totally understand where you're coming from. I love my dog more than anything, she makes me so happy, but she was also a rescue and she doesn't know how to interact with other dogs, or most other animals, really. I have so much love for her and I'd like to share that love with other dogs (or other animals) who need homes, but she would not be okay with that. The good news is that she's mellowed with age. She mostly ignores smaller dogs now, and if the other dog is ignoring her, she's fine. Hopefully your dogs will also learn to relax around other dogs. Your patience with them is awesome, since there are a lot of people who would have given the dogs up the second they didn't fit with their lifestyles.

Also, I emphatically third the thing about "It's okay, he's friendly!" dog owners. That is completely irresponsible.


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 Post subject: Re: I need to vent about my new-ish rescue dog
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:54 am 
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i totally hear ya on all points.
dogs with "issues" can be incredibly hard to own. obviously you dont want to get rid of them but some days it's just too much to handle and you want to be like AHHHHHH!!!

sometimes i find shelter descriptions of dogs are not all that accurate. #1 alot of the time i dont think they have enough time to really get to know what the dog is *actually* like and #2 being in a shelter situation i dont think dogs ever act normal.
our second dog when we introed him to our current dog at the shelter before we adopted him actually played with our current dog. that never happened again (lol)

our first dog is INSANELY OVER THE TOP reactive. the rescue group we got him from did not say a word to us about the fact that he hates other dogs. they told us he loved other dogs. part of me is a little irritated with them but on the other hand he was in the dog pound (they do not yet have a physical shelter) and there was one other dog in there and the volunteers could only get there twice a day to care for the dogs. he was ok with the other dog because he saw him every single day. so i dont think they exactly lied to us but it was just a crappy situation. very frustrating to adopt a dog only to find out he has buttloads of issues.

when we got a second dog the paperwork he came with said he "loved dogs, cats, and water"
so far none of those things has proven true. he is prety much indifferent to other dogs. he is definitely a people dog. if he sees another dog he literally could give 2 shiitakes about it unless it gets directly in his face then he snaps. cats he seems pretty disinterested in as well. and ive never seen him stick more than like maybe half a paw in water.

so i understand what you're saying. it's hard to get a dog thinking one thing and then you find out too late that the exact opposite is true.

and the whole dog off leash thing DRIVES ME INSANE.
we have leash laws in my town and the towns around us so technically no dogs are supposed to be off leash (har har) but of course they are and so we have dogs running up excitedly up to my insanely dog reactive dog and i dont care how friendly you claim your dog is, after about 4 seconds with my dog your "super friendly" dog will go into attack mode because my dog does not know how to interact with other dogs.
then when my dog gets pissed and freaks out because some jerk's dog is off leash terrorizing my dog i end up looking like a bad owner becuase my dog doesnt "behave right" even though i can guarantee i always ALWAYS have him on a leash and under control to the best of my ability because I KNOW what his limits are.
and that 30 second bad interaction with another dog sets back years of training we have put in to help him.

AHHHHHH!!!!

so yeah i know where you are coming from. it sucks.
at least your puppies have a good home though. :-)
that is what i tell myself when i get frustrated wtih our reactive dog. if we hadn't taken him he would have been put down. i can guarantee it.

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 Post subject: Re: I need to vent about my new-ish rescue dog
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:17 am 
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Everyone here knows how I feel about dogs off of a leash.

We had some new people move in around the corner, they don't have a fenced in yard and neither does the woman on the corner (she always takes her dog out on a leash). They have a little dog who they put out on a lead. Then a few weeks ago, a giant german shepard-ish dog appeared. They attached a dog run to some trees in the back, but apparently were just letting him out to walk him back there instead of leashing him. We found this out when he ran up to my father-in-law while he was walking his dogs and got the 'he's friendly' line. He looked the woman right in the eye and said "We're a little sensitive about loose dogs because of the leash law and the fact that we've had one dog killed and another (one that he was walking) attacked."

Then a week later, the dog ran away.
Then I found out it wasn't even their dog! They were dog sitting.

Anyway, I have a reactive little dog. I'm pretty sure he wants to go be friends with all of the dogs, but that doesn't make the amount of noise he makes when he sees a dog any less irritating. Chester is pretty indifferent to other dogs unless they get up in his face...then not so much. He also isn't very fond of Harley because she's bigger than him, but he's getting better. But good Lard, if Fawkes doesn't eat his food Chester guards it from her with his very life, including growling and body blocking her. He's lucky that Harley is so good natured, because she could take him down easily. But she's never so much as snipped back.

Are you trying to introduce them to certain dogs, or just random dogs? For one, dogs on leashes are much more likely to reactive negatively to an off-leash dog than they would if they were both leashed or loose. If it's certain dogs, it can take some time and repeated interactions. We dog sit for our neighbor 5-6 times a year, and every time he comes over everyone is still like, "HOLY shiitake IT'S PEDRO, WHY IS HE HERE, LET'S BARK REPEATEDLY AND NIP AT HIS ANKLES AND TRY TO HERD HIM AROUND EVEN THOUGH HE'S EIGHTEEN TIMES OUR SIZE."

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 Post subject: Re: I need to vent about my new-ish rescue dog
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:01 pm 
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MBM, I can't even begin. Just...how? We had a neighbor who let their dogs out every night to roam the streets, and they'd dump on all of the lawns. Needless to say one of the dogs disappeared and the whole family had a big problem and eventually the other dog ended up in the shelter, eventually a rescue.


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 Post subject: Re: I need to vent about my new-ish rescue dog
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:59 am 
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If people want their dogs off leash when it's just them or there are other dogs around who are also off leash, that doesn't bother me. But the minute you see another dog on leash, you need to do the same!

My dog used to be dog friendly and she isn't anymore. It sucks. She loves dog parks but we just can't take her anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: I need to vent about my new-ish rescue dog
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:11 pm 
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one of my dogs is a bit unpredictable but it is something that has developed over the years. She is super protective of my husband and myself of other dogs. She goes to daycare and is fine but if we are out walking her or hiking with her, we have to make sure that she is between us and the other dogs or she is tightly controlled. A couple months ago we were walking our dogs on a walking path that gets a fair amount of dog walking traffic. Someone who lived near the path had 2 big dogs (maybe pyrenees?) off leash and they ran straight for us despite their owners calling them. I was scared because I didn't know what they were going to do and I didn't know what my dog was going to do. They just sniffed each other but it could've gotten ugly.

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 Post subject: Re: I need to vent about my new-ish rescue dog
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:47 am 
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It's the -it could go ugly- part that always freaks me out. Party is a really big dog, so I'm not much worried about what other dogs will do to him but about any reaction he may have.

He's been grabbed, attacked, etc from other dogs before and I can usually get them off him before anything major. But he has once grabbed back and wouldn't let go. It was super scary, because although he wasn't hurting the other dog I couldn't pry him off. I had my hand between his teeth and the other dog, but there was no getting them apart. His size and breed make people apprehensive, which in turn can make their dogs apprehensive.

It sucks because he was never socialized, so sometimes just his presence will set other dogs off. Much to the surprise/shock of their owners. Similarly, his reaction is sometimes abnormal and no indicators. Other days he couldn't care what is going on around him and completely ignores dogs that rush us, I just wish there was some kind of consistency.

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 Post subject: Re: I need to vent about my new-ish rescue dog
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:14 pm 
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Have you tried a fenced-in off leash dog park yet? My dog is literally night and day off/on a leash. She HATES other dogs on a leash, totally tries to start fights even. Off a leash she's an angel, acts submissive, not really too interested in being with the other dogs but she likes a good butt sniff. I mean she's not the perfect dog, I do have to keep a watchful eye to make sure the other dogs don't try to get too much face to face action with her, that's her only thing off-leash, she can't abide much of that. But it's pretty rare for other dogs to do that to her, they generally, when ALL off leash, have really good intuition about each other.

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 Post subject: Re: I need to vent about my new-ish rescue dog
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:27 pm 
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Plus, another thing to mention, with time that can be trained down. I used to think Ginny would be a bad dog on a leash forever, but for one thing, the front-clip harness has helped her reactiveness some (and her pulling drastically), and the second most large improvement has been since I moved a couple blocks from my friend who has a dog with a pretty different personality from her, I've been trying to really socialize her more. She's at the point now where she's 100% comfortable with him, and sees him as an ally, and when we walk both him and her together on leashes she's much better when other dogs come into the mix. I think because your two dogs both know they are yours this doesn't work that way, you'd need another that is someone else's.

A bit of a side note, but not somethig I thought I could ever train in her: I've even trained her to be on the front porch off leash and she won't go further than the top step unless I let her. I obviously do this only supervised, but it's really great that my dog who previously would be barreling down barking like a mad man at any dog that she saw, now is a little angel who just sits peacefully on the porch just watching them.

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 Post subject: Re: I need to vent about my new-ish rescue dog
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:46 pm 
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Mars, I need to know your secret. I think finding a dog friend nearby would be helpful. The few time's Party's had another dog staying with us, or visiting he is much less interested or bothered by other dogs outside/on walks.

I wish I could afford/find a doggie daycare that could handle him.

He was ok with the dog park, but then someone brought their in heat un-fixed lady boxer who decided she loved Party and kept charging, body slamming and generally terrorizing him until he got too frazzled to be around other dogs. Then I was too frazzled to take him back, and everyone there tried to make him 'submit' to calm down (like trying to roll him over to his side until he calmed down, which just made him freak out more).

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 Post subject: Re: I need to vent about my new-ish rescue dog
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:10 pm 
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I narrowly avoided an encounter with two loose dogs, who are very big, on my street. I picked up Fawkes and tried to keep Harley from barking, but the dogs were between me and my house, and then they crossed to our side of the street, so *I* had to cross carefully. I came really close to crying, then when I got home my father-in-law told me it was probably the people across the street, who have had their dogs loose before and it's always another excuse about their fence or someone left the gate open. I do not give two flying forks about your excuses, if your dog is loose ONCE, okay, find out how they got out and correct it. Multiple times?

Our next door neighbor had their dogs get loose for the first time, they had a garage built less than a year ago, and they put up a fence over their driveway so the dogs didn't have to be put out on leads anymore. Well, the dogs nosed open the car gate and were off within minutes. One is a pitbull so it was really scary for them because they knew someone would call animal control ASAP (but honestly, if my dog got loose I would rather someone call than ignore them, my dogs are chipped and up-to-date, they have a better chance with AC than with traffic).

Loose dogs are a danger no matter what, they are either the danger themselves, or in danger of being run over, picked up, stolen, hurt by a bigger dog. Before Fawkes established our house as 'home' he found a hole in the back fence that we never knew about (Bonny wasn't interested in exploring when we moved here), and got out and I almost had a stroke and was convinced we'd find him dead or someone would snatch him.

I am getting panicky just talking about this.

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 Post subject: Re: I need to vent about my new-ish rescue dog
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:49 am 
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Well I've been looking into dog training places that deal specifically w/ "growly" dogs. I don't need to know how to make then sit, stay etc.... I just need to know how ( if it's even possible which I can't help but think it must be ) to get my dogs to be OK with other dogs. I don't need to be them best buds with all dogs they meet but I just really want this to be better than it is now. I found a couple of good options so I'm very encouraged. If nothing works though and the best I get is what I have now....well that'll be ok. I have a large fenced yard, the dogs are well behaved w/ us and w/ people house guests so that's good enough.


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 Post subject: Re: I need to vent about my new-ish rescue dog
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:47 pm 
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look for someone who does reactive dog training with positive reinforcement. that is hugely important for this type of dog.

ive seen a lot of different classes and they usually have a corny name like Diamonds in the Ruff or some other dog pun.

the one we took i think was called Ruff Diamonds

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