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 Post subject: Not Very Wicked Pisser
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:07 pm 
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Semen Strong
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My dog Cuddles is marking everything. My house has the worse pissstank and Nature's Miracle, vinegar and baking soda aren't cutting it. I bought a blacklight and am using it to find his pee stains, which I then clean and he then pees over them

He has been to the vet and is in excellent health. He is mostly marking on my daughter's toys - her toy rack, her doll house and her playkitchen. I put cayenne pepper around the worst targets, and that dissuades him for about a week (during which he pees elsewhere). He goes for an hour walk every day and is outside for at least 2 hours a day. Plus I am at home when he is and could let him out if he wanted. He isn't very assertive, but I let him out at least every 2 hours to make sure he gets a pee and he goes out at 11 pm at night and then again at 7 am, which is the longest stretch that he is in the house.

It was ok when he was confined to my husband's bedroom, but then my husband started to say he couldn't sleep bc of the snoring and the fact that the dog wakes him up at 4 am to go pee. ETA: I think its particularly bad at the moment, bc my husband has been out of town for a few days, and Cuddles misses him.

Would it be cruel to crate an older dog now? Or are there other ways to manage this? I obviously am not getting rid of the dog, but I would like him to not peas on everything I own. I hate having anyone over to our house because of the way it smells, which also makes me sad.

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 Post subject: Re: Not Very Wicked Pisser
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:36 pm 
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Is your house terribly open plan? Because baby gates are not just for babies! Locking him in the kitchen/laundry room/other room he's not likely to pee on stuff when you're not watching him isn't a terrible thing and might be easier than going back to crate training since he's older. Or you could get an exercise pen would also contain him suitably but give a little more space. Not that reintroducing the crate is a bad idea, especially if you can establish it as a safe place.

You've been mentioning this for a while now and it does sound to me like he's got an issue with L specifically since he's peeing on her stuff. Has she gotten considerably more mobile in the last few months? Maybe he's reacting to the stress of having an active toddler around.

Does he have space to go that is 100% his own, and where he can retreat to if he is feeling overwhelmed? Reintroducing the crate could be a good solution simply from the standpoint he might be able to see it as a safe, baby free place.

My dogs are all fine out of their crates with the run of the main floor of the house, but it's not uncommon for me to lock them in the kitchen or their crates if I'm gone for more than a couple hours or even overnight if I don't feel like sharing the bed or think things outside will be too interesting. I think it can be important for them to not get out of habit of being crated or locked in a room in case of emergency or for safety reasons.

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 Post subject: Re: Not Very Wicked Pisser
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:42 pm 
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it's pronounced pissa. wicked pissa.

i have no dog advice, but i used biokleen bac-out to get pee out of the tile grout when ophelia went through a weird phase of standing in the box and shooting pee out over the side. it worked well (i think; my sense of smell isn't great, but i used to smell pee whenever i was in the room, and now i smell nothing). i also used it on the unfinished wood under the sink in my old apartment, where mice had made a huge mess of things. i didn't think anything would help because the wood was so porous, but it made a big difference. i don't know whether it's appropriate for all of the surfaces in your home, but it's worth looking into.

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 Post subject: Re: Not Very Wicked Pisser
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:42 am 
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Yep, I'd agree with Moon about looking for a space which is entirely his, where L cannot go. I don't thnk a crate is a bad idea - I think it's our human problem to see tem as representing incarceration, I think my dogs have always seen them as Safe Space. You'll have to set boundaries to keep L out of the cate though!

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 Post subject: Re: Not Very Wicked Pisser
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:43 am 
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Tofulish wrote:
It was ok when he was confined to my husband's bedroom, but then my husband started to say he couldn't sleep bc of the snoring and the fact that the dog wakes him up at 4 am to go pee. ETA: I think its particularly bad at the moment, bc my husband has been out of town for a few days, and Cuddles misses him.

Would it be cruel to crate an older dog now? Or are there other ways to manage this? I obviously am not getting rid of the dog, but I would like him to not peas on everything I own. I hate having anyone over to our house because of the way it smells, which also makes me sad.


So Cuddles does wake up or signs to Mr. T that he needs to pee. Which might mean that Cuddles pees to mark his territory?

If confining Cuddles to a room works, and you're considering crating, than I wonder if it would be an option to confine Cuddles to the down stairs apartment at night?
(I don't know if it's too cold for him there in the winter time)


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 Post subject: Re: Not Very Wicked Pisser
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:57 pm 
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Semen Strong
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Well, I let Cuddles out at 7 pm and came back down to let him out again at 10, and he had peed all over the floor. This after having a long walk from 4 to 5.

I feel like we have done everything we can, short of crating him, to resolve the peeing. I don't want to crate him because he is a lovely, old dog and I love that he can get comfy on the couch and just sleep wherever. But seriously, the smell of dogpiss is just depressing me.

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 Post subject: Re: Not Very Wicked Pisser
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:23 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
Well, I let Cuddles out at 7 pm and came back down to let him out again at 10, and he had peed all over the floor. This after having a long walk from 4 to 5.

I feel like we have done everything we can, short of crating him, to resolve the peeing. I don't want to crate him because he is a lovely, old dog and I love that he can get comfy on the couch and just sleep wherever. But seriously, the smell of dogpiss is just depressing me.

You will think me (even more) mad but have you considered a doggie diaper? My mom had a poodle mix dog that was incontinent as he got older. They have a doggie door and he was let out all the time but would still randomly pee in the house.
Then they diapered him. It was sort of hilarious because he was so tiny but it did stop the peeing all over.

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 Post subject: Re: Not Very Wicked Pisser
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:25 pm 
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Semen Strong
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You know, I forgot that our behaviorist suggested using those. They have reusable ones, where you wash out the pee. Thanks for the reminder!

Anyone have any suggestions for doggie diapers? The behaviorist suggested the Petco ones but the reviews are not that great.

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My oven is bigger on the inside, and it produces lots of wibbly wobbly, cake wakey... stuff. - The PoopieB.


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 Post subject: Re: Not Very Wicked Pisser
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:58 pm 
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Tofulish, have you had a urinalysis and exam done recently? Sounds like he is peeing an awful lot. Increased urination could be a symptom of many different issues. I would get a full blood and urine done at the next exam, if you're able to. Dogs can also get "doggie alzheimers", and forgetting their housetraining can be a sign. But if all that is ruled out, it does sound like it could be stress/anxiety.

I don't think crating him would be cruel at all, as long as you made it a positive experience for him and he's not locked in for too long. Tegan is crated for a couple hours in the afternoon, and then during the night so I don't have to worry about her getting into trouble while I'm sleeping. A lot of dogs can get stressed out by kids in the house, especially older dogs. It doesn't mean they don't love the kids, just means they need daily breaks from all the excitement and chaos that comes along with children and need to know that they have their own space where they can relax and no one will bother them. If you get a crate, make it a positive experience and introduce it to him slowly (http://www.humanesociety.org/animals/dogs/tips/crate_training.html). Put in a nice comfy bed or blanket, but make sure it is easily washable, just in case of any accidents (I've been there, so now I buy dog beds with waterproof liners). If it's a wire crate, you can drape a sheet over the sides for privacy. If he really likes certain toys or chewies, you can start giving them to him only when he is in the crate, so he'll look forward to being crated. When he is not locked in, the door should be left open so he can choose to go in on his own if he needs a break. Tell Leela that the crate is Cuddles' room, and when he's in there it means he is resting and doesn't want to play. Cuddles needs to know that the crate is his safe space where he can "get away from it all". Colleen Pelar has a great book on living with kids and dogs.

Since it seems that the peeing might be stress-related if it's not medical, you could also discuss with your vet using some kind of anxiety-reducing supplements, like L-Theanine or melatonin. There are also the comfort zone/DAP plug-ins and sprays (like Feliway, but for dogs), and lovely calming music cds (that make me sleepy, never mind the dogs).

I hope you find a happy, dog piss-free solution!


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 Post subject: Re: Not Very Wicked Pisser
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:08 pm 
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Semen Strong
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He was at the vet back in early summer, but we didn't do senior bloodwork. Cuddles has been slowing down, and I think his hearing is going a bit - he can't really tell where I am when I call to him any longer. He can hear me, and then gets confused and sometimes runs in the wrong direction.

I have been giving him rescue remedy. We didn't get Feliway to put on L's toys to kind of reconcile him to feeling more peaceful around her.

I really appreciate your feedback!

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 Post subject: Re: Not Very Wicked Pisser
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:58 pm 
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A long as he's not excessively stressed in the crate, I don't think crating him is terrible either. If it keeps him in the home and helps you keep your sanity, it is a good solution. The chihuahuas sleep in bed with us most nights but every so often I put them in their crate so I can get a better sleep but also to keep them in the habit in case I absolutely HAVE to crate them for some reason. Tungsten gets crated when he is going through "barking at the darkness" phases and also to keep him in the habit.

But I agree with RC, looking more thoroughly into a potential health issue is a good idea.

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Well! Fruit is stupid! These onions taste nothing like fruit! - allularpunk
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 Post subject: Re: Not Very Wicked Pisser
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:00 am 
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Aw, poor sweet guy. I would recommend getting the bloodwork and urine done. Especially with an older dog. If it's something like kidney issues, you want to catch it early. Sometimes it takes a lot of experimenting to see what works on a dog and what doesn't. I haven't seen much success with rescue remedy myself, but your mileage may vary (I haven't used it much). I've used L-theanine on several dogs with results ranging from completely knocked out and snoring (Tegan), to no discernible effect. I also tried a pheromone collar on Tegan and it seemed to calm her down for a few days, but didn't last long. She will fall asleep if I put on a cd of new age-y music, but some of the dogs at the shelter will bark right through it. With any new supplement or product, give it 6 weeks to see if there's a difference (some things, especially medications and supplements will take over a month to really kick in). But it's worth it to know what works.


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 Post subject: Re: Not Very Wicked Pisser
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:37 am 
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My 5-year-old GSD/Boxer mix developed spay incontinence about 3 years ago. We've had good results adding a tablespoon of apple cider vinegar to her food twice a day and giving her an olive leaf extract capsule every other day (this also eliminated chronic ear infections in one of my other dogs). She used to pee every single time she fell asleep, 4 or 5 times a day, and not even realize it until she was soaked. Now it's a few times a week at most. She gets so embarrassed and upset when it happens, so I'm glad we've at least been able to greatly reduce the frequency.

I keep an adult incontinence pad and a waterproof mattress pad on my bed, just in case, but dog diapers have been a big help. She has several of these http://www.amazon.com/SnuggEase-Washable-Dog-Diaper-VALUE/dp/B001VN11JO/ref=sr_1_13?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1384317701&sr=1-13&keywords=dog+diapers. The way they fit her, I think they would provide leak coverage for a male dog. She naps on the couch and wears them then, too. They work well and she doesn't mind wearing them. I just keep telling her how pretty she looks in her fancy pants. I have 5 that I rotate and they've held up well to many washings. The oldest ones started leaking through just a bit after three years, but I put a cloth baby diaper inside and that's been working out. The sizing is a little weird. My dog is 80 lbs., but she has a tiny little waist and the large, which says 35-55 lbs, fits her perfectly.


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 Post subject: Re: Not Very Wicked Pisser
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:24 am 
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I crate my dogs at night because otherwise the smaller one will bark all night at every damn leaf that stirs. They are fine until morning.

The older dog sleeps in the crate on and off all day.

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Dessert is currently a big bowl of sanctimonious, passive aggressive vegan enduced boak. Fezza
You people are way less funny than Pandacookie. Sucks to be you.-interrobang?!


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 Post subject: Re: Not Very Wicked Pisser
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:21 am 
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When Chester started getting up in the middle of the night and just going downstairs and peeing, instead of waking me up, we got out the pen we bought when he busted his hip and put it around his dog bed. Since it's open at the top it's less 'confining' than a crate, and in our case much easier to get him into. Ours was about $50 from Petsmart, it's just like this:

http://www.amazon.com/North-States-Supe ... adjustable

Which is nice because you can change the shape (we removed two panels to make Fawkes a place to eat in peace) to suit your room.

Anyway, he would whine to be let out of the pen in the morning so that worked for us. We made it into a rectangle with the door on one end and his bed on the other, and his bed took up about half of it.

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