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 Post subject: Cat is peeing on floor out of what seems like SPITE.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:53 am 
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WELFARIST!
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Ghostface has always sort of had a pee problem. Anytime she gets upset, the first thing she does is pee in a corner. But she stopped when I moved to my new place. I was SO PUMPED. But now she's started again. She really likes going out on the balcony, and has always wanted to just be outside. I don't like the idea of having an outdoor cat though, mostly because I have always lived in apartment buildings with them, so that doesn't really work, but also because outdoor cats are in danger from so many things. This weekend, I left the window open so she could go outside to the balcony whenever she wanted. I was gone all day Sunday (not unusual, they're used to that) and came home to no pee on the floor! Hurrah! She must have been super pumped to be able to be outside. But it was hot, so I closed all the windows and turned on the AC. She was upset, running and jumping into each window as I shut them, meowing at me. A couple of minutes later, I went to the area where their litter box is, and where she has been peeing right beside of it like a total jerk, and there she is! Peeing! Caught in the act! Was she spite peeing? Do animals know spite? The bigger question is - what do I do about her? This seems like something she is always going to do, and has always done. I've had her (and her sister) for 6 years, and I'm freaking tired of cleaning up her pee. It's gross and smells bad. All the usual stuff people suggest (separate boxes, clean boxes daily, UTI check) have not worked. I am thisclose to re-homing her. My parents live in the country and would probably take her for me, so that she could be outside with people I trust. But she doesn't know about roads! Or cars! Or other animals! Also, I still love her, even though she totally sucks when it comes to this. And Bill, her sister, has been with her since birth. Granted, they don't get along anymore (I break up more fights than lovefests over here), but I don't want to upset the balance.

I'm just at the end of my rope. If she would be happier in a home where she can go outdoors, then that's probably what I should do. It's just so hard to know what the right thing is to do here.

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 Post subject: Re: Cat is peeing on floor out of what seems like SPITE.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:08 am 
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Is it possible to close all the window and leave the one with access to the balcony open just enough so she can come in and out? We do this with our one balcony obsessed cat. Just leaving the window open a bit and pulling the curtain to block most of the air flow across does not seem to impact our hydro bill too much. When it gets too hot she comes in of her own accord and lays under the a/c. However, for us it's not a security risk in any way - burglars could and would not come in that way, and she is not in any danger of leaping off.

I'm not sure about spite in cats. Whenever we have to do something that seems unfair to a cat's mind - such as closing the balcony door because of poor air quality, we always make a big fuss over our kitty and snuggle and give here pats and say thank you for coming inside, and that always appeases her. In other words, distract her from here sense of indignation by love-bombing her.

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 Post subject: Re: Cat is peeing on floor out of what seems like SPITE.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:33 am 
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I know you have tried things but have you tried different litters? How often to you completely dump the litter and start fresh? Have you tried something like cat attract? Have you tried a different style litter box? Like a top open one? Are your litter boxes all enclosed? Are they all open?

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 Post subject: Re: Cat is peeing on floor out of what seems like SPITE.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:43 am 
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I don't have any suggestions but I wanted to chime in with empathy. My old cat, Moose, would always pee on MY BED after bad things happened, like getting beaten up by one of our other cats, chased by the dog, or left alone for a whole weekend by herself (when she was the last cat standing and we took the dog away for the weekend with us). It would definitely happen more if it was hot out, too. Although the timing certainly seemed like she was doing it out of spite, I don't think there's any way a cat actually knows that their pee is so gross and that it is a perfect weapon against humans.

I'm thinking more about your situation and maybe in your position I would find her a home where she could go outside. I think her peeing behavior is a sign that she is not happy with the current state of affairs, so maybe she would have a better quality of life if she got to go outside, even if her life ended up being shorter that way.


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 Post subject: Re: Cat is peeing on floor out of what seems like SPITE.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:47 am 
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I've thought about leaving the window to the balcony open (it's not a security risk, as I'm on the 3rd floor), but what about when it gets cold? I can't do it then because the window is in my bedroom, and I cannot leave it open in cold weather. So that would be a short term fix.

I just got a new litter box a couple of months ago. She's not peeing outside the box all the time, only when she's upset about something. So I'm not sure that changing a bunch of things would work. I might try getting some Cat Attract when I get paid, but again...I really don't think this is a litter box thing. I think she is just plain unhappy :(

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 Post subject: Re: Cat is peeing on floor out of what seems like SPITE.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:23 pm 
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The Cat Attract was a huge game changer for us. We went from finding piles of pee (and pee soaked clothes) everywhere to having our cat Carlito pee only in the litter box. Our vet ruled out any medical causes, so it was behavioral as well. Its a bit pricey, but cheaper than the alternative!

And Urine-Off is better than Nature's Miracle for dealing with pee smells. So maybe try that when you clean up the corner? And I would try and put some Feliway there as well - there may be something in that area that is stressing her out and causing her to pee to cover up its smell.

Does your local shelter have a behaviorist you can talk to? If not, call Pets for Life (917-468-2938 ) - they are in NYC and they were tremendously helpful to us with our dog and cats. Basically they exist to prevent pet surrenders by addressing some of the causes for surrender. I thought Cuddles was peeing out of spite, but they explained that dogs don't spite pee - its from stress. So it was easier for me to relate and not be angry when he would pee if I thought it was from stress not just to pisss me off (harhar).

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 Post subject: Re: Cat is peeing on floor out of what seems like SPITE.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:29 pm 
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Yeah, I don't really think she is peeing to make me angry, she's obviously just stressed out. I will get some of the Cat Attract then (yay, free shipping from amazon prime!) and some Urine-Off and see if that helps. I really don't want to take her to live with my parents (and I would NEVER take her to a shelter). I have the Feliway Comfort Zone plug-in, which I originally thought made her stop in the first place, but apparently it's not working for her anymore. Thanks for the advice.

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 Post subject: Re: Cat is peeing on floor out of what seems like SPITE.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:54 pm 
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We have used Anti-icky poo for cleanup. I was just wondering if she is stressed about not being outdoors then also stressed about something about the litter box.

When she starts acting that way, you could also try to play with her or distract her to see if that helps.

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 Post subject: Re: Cat is peeing on floor out of what seems like SPITE.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:35 pm 
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Oh, I guess I should specify that these are hardwood floors she is peeing on. I'm honestly a little nervous about losing my pet deposit if it doesn't stop soon. I think that mainly, this is happening when I'm not home. I'll notice it as soon as I come in, and it looks pretty fresh (as in, it didn't happen hours earlier before I left for work or my boyfriend's house). This is the first time I've seen her (in this apartment anyway) act stressed and then do it, so I'm not always around for distraction. I'm trying to give her tons of love right now, so that she feels more secure or something. She's one of those cats that scratches when she gets too much love though (i.e. petting her for more than, uh, one minute), so...

Gah, difficult cat! I need to get some new dangly toys so I can play with her without touching her too much. Most of them have been lost at the moment.

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 Post subject: Re: Cat is peeing on floor out of what seems like SPITE.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:01 pm 
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Maybe something like this would help. I scanned the reviews some people did mention it lets cold air in - but others also said they sealed it up/added extra insulation - so it might work.

You could try getting some good play time in before you leave - wear her out a bit. You could also try hiding little treats around or putting some of her food in a puzzle toy to keep her busy while you're gone. I made a couple for my kitty - one by cutting paw size holes in a shoebox so he can reach in and pull stuff out - I put dry kibble in there and once in a while a catnip mouse. Another one I based on this - used paper towel rolls cut to different lengths duct taped together. He gets bored with them after a day or two so I rotate them out. I tried one of those rolling balls that treats come out of but he had no interest.


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 Post subject: Re: Cat is peeing on floor out of what seems like SPITE.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:40 pm 
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I have a cat with pee issues (not health related) and I understand how intensely stressful if can be! Sorry you are going through this. FWIW cat attract litter made our problem worse. She really hated that litter. We have had much better luck with world's best cat litter. I also have had great results with blocking her access to spots she wants to pee in/on. Maybe put a piece of furniture over her favorite spot? Mine was peeing on the bed. We now cover the bed with presentation boards (those things kids use for science fair projects).

I would re-home before letting her go outside. She might be stressed from the other cat. Outside is just too dangerous for my comfort level.


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 Post subject: Re: Cat is peeing on floor out of what seems like SPITE.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:44 am 
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I would absolutely get a window exit cat flap with a cat cage for the window/balcony.

Also, trying the cat pheromone collars or spray is more concentrated and may work better for her.

Finally, I would get a large dog crate and put a litter box in it to use while out of the house for long periods until you make arrangements for safe outdoor access. Dogs can be crated, cats sure can too. She won't be happy about it but it'll keep her and your floors safe.

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 Post subject: Re: Cat is peeing on floor out of what seems like SPITE.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:51 pm 
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Sounds like stress peeing to me. Have you tried flower essences? I've had great success with them. I usually add them to the water, or just rub some on the inner ear flaps. Rescue Remedy has worked wonders with our stressed out pee girl. ;) How bad do the fights get with sister? You may have to keep them separated if they are bad. Litter boxes should be kept away from places where people are walking by...they like privacy. You may have to look into antidepressants as a last resort. But definitely see if you can find a behaviorist.


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 Post subject: Re: Cat is peeing on floor out of what seems like SPITE.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:44 pm 
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I gave up trying to clean because they just go back to the same spot. Now I'm just going to seal the floor and have vinyl that looks like wood installed


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 Post subject: Re: Cat is peeing on floor out of what seems like SPITE.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:44 am 
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The fights with sister are mostly just sister swatting, and then Ghostface just runs away. It just breaks my heart because I'll be cuddling Bill (sister), who likes some cuddle time, and Ghostface will walk up looking to be included, and Bill will swat her or jump down and chase her away. I live in a very small apartment, so litter box space is limited, but it's in a private area. Keeping them separated is not possible, as there are no doors that actually latch in my place, and the resulting spaces would be too small anyway. What sorts of flower essences are we talking? Lavender?

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 Post subject: Re: Cat is peeing on floor out of what seems like SPITE.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:00 pm 
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One of our cats has taken to peeing on everything in the cat room. The people who moved out left a single matress and box spring, no frame, so we moved it in there and put Brian's sheets from his summer internship on it and a blanket so they could hang out on it. The two litter boxes are in the closet that has a sliding door. Apparently, one time I closed the closet door after cleaning it and didn't realize it and there were seveal poops and pees on the bed before we noticed. Luckily, there's a mattress pad and a cover (not plastic) on the mattress so it didn't make it to the mattress. So I stripped the bed, washed it, put it back.

There was more pee a week later. Did the same thing, but this time I left the covers off of the bed for weeks because I wanted to see if she was going to pee on the mattress and if it was the bed, we'd just toss it. Nope! Everything is fine, made it again. I caught Genghis in the act two days later. Strip again, google on getting cat pee smell REALLY out, spend three days soaking the pad, sheets, etc. But I made a mistake. I tossed the pillows to the side. Brian saw her squatting on them and when I looked at them, SOAKED. Tossed the pillows because they were old and lumpy anyway.

So today I resolved to clean everything in that room, I picked up the rag rug and a blanket we have draped over the $3 chair I got from a charity sale in there and guess what: the blanket was soaked in pee! What the hell. She definitely doesn't have a UTI as it's only in this one room and none of it looks orange. Also that chair was only $3 but i'm going to be really mad if it's ruined because the wood on it is very nice.

Someone kill me.

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 Post subject: Re: Cat is peeing on floor out of what seems like SPITE.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:06 am 
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I just caught my 18-year-old cat peeing in our dining room (I was in the kitchen making a coffee drink and all of a sudden I heard the sound of urine hitting the carpet). First we were blaming the morning pee spots of Fawkes, then on Harley. God dammit cat, you have an entire ROOM. And there is genuinely no good place fo a litter box on the first floor, no place we can keep the dogs from sticking their faces into it. Help.

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 Post subject: Re: Cat is peeing on floor out of what seems like SPITE.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:20 am 
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I feel all of your pain and just went through months of cat peeing issues! After several vet visits, blood tests, urine tests, and one very unhappy cat they finally figured out that she did in fact have a UTI after ruling it out twice before. But there is/was also a behavior problem and issues with her the older cat and the two younger cats. These are things I did with help from the PPK and the vet.

4 litter boxes. 3 of them are in the basement where the older cat who has the peeing issue won't go. She is afraid of being trapped or attacked on the stairs. I think this is what started the whole thing to begin with. We had all of the litter boxes in the basement and it took me a while to figure out that she stopped going down there. So I got one of those huge monster boxes and put it upstairs for her in our office. I hate it, now there is always litter on my hardwood floors upstairs and its a mess. But she is using the box so I'm dealing with it.

Feliway plug ins. I had no idea these were even a thing until the PPK told me about them. I have three plugged in my upstairs area and one in the basement. Our basement is finished so the cats go down there a lot and hang out. When they start to run out I can tell because the tension between the cats gets much worse!

I changed all of them to Royal Canine Urinary SO canned food. The vet gave me a script of it for Kayla (peeing issue cat) and they said it was fine for the boys to eat too. So they are all on that now.

Let me just tell you that the freaking food is 50 bucks for a case! The Feliway plugins are about 30 bucks for a three pack of refills not to mention I had to buy the actual plugs. Countless vet visits, and she is now on a supplement for her liver because her levels were up. So this has been a costly cat year for me. But I think she is finally doing better. No accidents since making all of these changes. She is still crabby and hisses like a maniac when she is in a mood. But I'll take that over peeing of the kitchen floor any day!

Good luck everyone!

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 Post subject: Re: Cat is peeing on floor out of what seems like SPITE.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:18 am 
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I don't think Fatty has a UTI. The story goes that Fawkes isn't housebroken, but we finally got to a point where as long as I let him out 20-30 minutes after dinner we were accident-free. We went about two weeks with no mistakes, then pee started appearing in the dining room, his room of choice, in the morning. They looked different (his spots are small and almost perfectly round) but I was like, "Well Harley is housebroken, so..." It didn't occur to me that it was a cat. Fawkes is in crate training, more pee appeared after about three days of that while he was in his pen, so we blamed Harley and figured she has just gotten the idea that that one room is 'okay' so we blocked it off (after cleaning the carpets) so the dogs can't get into the living room or dining room, then after a week I was going to put Harleys food and bed in the pee area so she'd learn that she doesn't want to pee there. That was Monday, I think.

I don't know how to fix this. Our basement door can't be left open because of where it is and I don't want to risk accidentally trapping them down there. Genghis spent three years barely leaving a basement which is why we gave them their own room on the second floor. Technically, the sun room could house a litter box in its bathroom if I put it in the shower (which we have used like three times so that's not a big deal), but we are going to close this room off when it gets too cold. The other downstairs bathroom is a halfie with no room and again, too awkward to leave the door open. I could put a box in the family room but there's no way to keep the dogs from going turd fishing. I also don't want to put down pee pads in the dining room when i'm trying to teach Fawkes to NOT pee in the house.

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 Post subject: Re: Cat is peeing on floor out of what seems like SPITE.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:41 am 
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I would maybe try the feliway plug ins for the cat and see if it helps with stress. I was beyond pissed off when the vet finally figured out that Kayla in fact had a UTI. After a round of antibiotics they retested her and sent the urine sample out to the lab and it was negative. But that was after being told twice that nothing was wrong with her health wise. But I also think that she gave herself the UTI from holding it in and not going normally when she needed to because she was scared. And that made me feel terrible because I wasn't paying attention closely enough.

One time she peed right in front of me in the kitchen while I was doing dishes. And right next to the water bowls. And there was a lot it like she had been holding it in for days! I cleaned with Nature's Miracle and mopped the floors a million times. But I swear the smell must still be there because now the cats won't drink in that area anymore. And I have cork floors in the kitchen so it probably sucked some of it right up!

I really wish cats could talk and tell us what is really going on with them!

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 Post subject: Re: Cat is peeing on floor out of what seems like SPITE.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:47 am 
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Gozer had a UTI last year (and the first one i've ever dealt with) and he peed in every bed and an amazon box we had left on the floor. It was awful, but my vet squeezed him in and let me drop him off before work, until they could look at him, so I didn't have to worry about him peeing more. She is only peeing in this one spot so I think maybe she's marking, I have Feliway spray somewhere and apparently cats hate the smells of lavender and orange peels so i'm going to try some of that too. Funny enough, I just gave away some lavender essential oil to my sister-in-law.

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 Post subject: Re: Cat is peeing on floor out of what seems like SPITE.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:56 am 
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When I read the reviews for the Feliway on Amazon the general consensus was that the plugins work much better than the spray. Because the spray wears off very quickly and you have to constantly re-spray. So I just went straight for the plugins.

This was the first UTI I ever dealt with too. She made it 9 years without any issues and I had never had a cat previously that had pee issues. So I was clueless!

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 Post subject: Re: Cat is peeing on floor out of what seems like SPITE.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:02 pm 
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Since I already have the spray (and the diffusers are more than I can really afford) i'm going to try that and get an essential oil diffuser.

This is really bumming me out. I feel like a failure of a parent between this, Genghis peeing all over the cat room (but she hasn't done it since I last removed the sheets and took out every single thing she could pee on besides the bed), and Fawkes (although he is catching on to his training quick). It's just depressing, it's like, what am I doing wrong?

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The tree is his penis // it's very exciting // when held up to his mouth // the lights are all lighting // his eyes start a-bulging // in unbridled glee // the tree is his penis // its beauty, effulgent -amandabear


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 Post subject: Re: Cat is peeing on floor out of what seems like SPITE.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:14 pm 
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I totally understand and I feel the same way. I've been a cat owner my whole life and have never had problems with peeing or really anything else until just recently. And it made me feel awful. I was really close to rehoming my older cat, I even contacted a shelter. But they told me that wouldn't take her because they would never be able to adopt her out. They actually suggested that I give them the two younger males! So at that point I threw my hands up in the air and said ok, I'm gonna have to figure something out because I'm not sending two cats to a shelter just so the older female will be happy again. There has to be another way! I think I'm getting there. But it's been a frustrating year.

Hang in there, something has to give.

Oh, I forgot that I instituted Kitty Staycation time for Kayla. Basically I put her in our office with food, water, a scratching post and a litter box at night for a week. And when shiitake was really bad I put her in there all day while I was at work. I think it calmed her nerves to be alone and helped the process. I would go in there and she would be passed out on the futon. And after a few nights I could tell she was ready to come out and socialize again because she would start scratching at the door. If she was really stressed she would just curl up and go right to sleep and not make a peep for hours.

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 Post subject: Re: Cat is peeing on floor out of what seems like SPITE.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:17 pm 
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Location: Rochester & Albany, NY
To let her have access to the balcony in the cold weather - can you rig up a cat door? The pet door inserts are fairly inexpensive (I got Cammie's - which is the same size you'd get for a cat - at Lowes for $30) and then cut a piece of something to fill in the rest of the opening?


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