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 Post subject: Re: Problems with Modding
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:26 pm 
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anyone can post anywhere they want. to me, kelly's post sounded more like a suggestion. maybe parents shouldn't post here if they don't have anything relevant to say. there have been a lot of posts by parents that were totally relevant to the topic and respectful, but there have been even more that were not respectful and were outright or at least borderline parentsplaining.

i also don't think the thread is the post to place about being generally annoyed with kids, which was the post that desdemona was referring to. that shouldn't really be posted anywhere. that sort of thing should be reported, so we can delete it or mod it. responding to it just takes the thread wayyy off topic.

No one actually made a unilateral decision about parents posting or not, just a suggestion that is currently being discussed here and has clearly been rejected. that's totally fine.

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 Post subject: Re: Problems with Modding
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:55 pm 
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My perspective: The experience of being a woman who has chosen not to reproduce is markedly different from that of adults in general who don't have children, which is why I am so drawn to the original thread.

Also, those who do want a new thread, can't they just start one? Does this have to be such a thing?

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 Post subject: Re: Problems with Modding
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:57 pm 
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we can never really have an exclusive thread because it's a public forum and anyone can post anywhere they want, so starting a new thread doesn't seem like it would fix any problems. we'd probably just be having parallel conversations.

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 Post subject: Re: Problems with Modding
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:13 pm 
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Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
OK, it has been suggested here and in the original child-free thread that we start a thread for those on the fence about having kids or not, and that perhaps we start a new alternate thread where input from parents and the undecided is kosher. I have futzed about with some rules for the latter and it's so ludicrous I'm doing this so please take a look and feel free to make any suggestions, corrections, additions, etc.

Proposed thread title: Thread for adults who do not have children

Quote:
This thread is for people who do not have children, be it by choice or circumstance, to discuss the difficulties, judgments, plusses and minuses of not having kids.

Because this topic is very personal, discussion about it can sometimes get thorny. Please review the following guidelines for keeping this thread productive and welcoming for all:

1. Anyone (including parents, the undecided, and anyone else) is welcome to post as long as it is kept respectful and on-topic.
a. no mommyjacking or daddyjacking!
b. try to keep your response proportionate to how closely you identify with the thread description above. All perspectives are welcome, but respect that this is a thread for discussion about being an adult without children.
c. in the spirit of being mutually respectful, please be friendly in pointing out any language or posting that seems off-topic or disrespectful; likewise, be graceful in accepting constructive criticism.

2. Do not disrespect or make assumptions about anyone’s reproductive choices and/or situations. This includes parents, future parents, those on the fence, and those who do not have children either by choice or by circumstance.

3. It’s okay if kids make you uncomfortable or confused. But this is not a thread for hating on children, period.

4. You may self-identify as you wish, but refrain from assuming others without children want to be called child-free. And of course do not use hateful words to descuribe parents, children, or adults without children.



My question whether a thread for those in between, was not in relation to this conflict, that's why I posted it there and not here. Based on a few posts I've read,and my own situation,it seemed there were post that did not really fit in either the playground or the chosen not to have thread.

I like your suggestions for the new thread Erika. Maybe post it elsewhere though so others, not following this thread can see it.

I admit I don't know exactly what daddyjacking or mommyjacking are though, but I'm not either a dad or a mom ( I'm assuming it's okay to talk about my kitties though) so I guess I don't need to know what that means.

Anyway, I'm very glad to learn parents won't be banned from any thread. And I'm really pleased to learn it's okay for the kidless to post in the playground -because I lurk there a lot. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Problems with Modding
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:23 pm 
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I think this is getting too convoluted and complicated, and the general consensus both here and in the original thread seems to be that multiple threads are confusing at best and annoying at worst. I'm inclined to agree.

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 Post subject: Re: Problems with Modding
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:44 pm 
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mrsbadmouth wrote:
Please place all of your concerns with the ways that mods mod, here.

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 Post subject: Re: Problems with Modding
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:50 pm 
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zoot suits!

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 Post subject: Re: Problems with Modding
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:53 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Problems with Modding
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:13 pm 
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Those stupid hats.

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Also: paper dresses. (Seriously, who wants to wear a paper dress? What happens when it rains?)

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 Post subject: Re: Problems with Modding
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:28 pm 
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Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
lutin wrote:
Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
I think the point is that there are people who are uncomfortable with confrontation. (...) If you want to assert yourself enough to make a reproductive choice that's going to put you in the outlier camp, you need to assert yourself enough to confront people when they're encroaching on your space.


I would rather you make decisions about how interactions should happen on the board for yourself rather than throwing me into a blanket statement about how confrontations/disagreements should go. It's your choice and jean's to confront people in thread. If I rather do it differently, that's my business, not yours.


It becomes my business when someone's inability to confront someone else shuts down an open dialogue that others are able to handle and enjoy.


Based on what happened today, I don't think anyone's inability to handle confrontation caused any kind of shut down. There was confusion over the best way to moderate the situation as well as over what posters in the thread at issue wanted. We've all agreed, no one is banning parents from the thread at issue, and I believe we've more or less come to an agreement on how we're going to proceed.

Accordingly, I'm reticent to add to this discussion, but I think one issue hasn't yet been addressed that contributed directly to the issue today, and that issue is facebook. The mods have struggled for a while with topics or discussions that start here and get brought to FB and back again. Today was a great example of someone reading a statement here, bringing it to FB, and then rallying their troops back to the PPK. None of us mods wants to be the jackbooted thought police censor thugs, but this kind of thing walks a fine line between open discourse and bullying, in my opinion. It drums up drama, outrage, and hurt feelings instead of fostering dialogue, and it's difficult to deal with. I think it also complicates these kinds of discussions immeasurably because instead of everyone simply feeling free to speak up with their concerns, as you very reasonably suggest, it creates a situation where a person may speak up about a post or poster in a certain thread, only to have the subject of the objection come back with 10 friends, who have all taken their marching orders via facebook. That's not to mention who knows who on PPK might have seen the facebook posts or comments, and be feeling directly attacked or shamed from seeing comments there that their authors were not aware they could see. Similarly, it creates a situation where people are bisqueing to facebook rather than bringing up concerns here, which circumvents the very reasonable suggestion that people voice their concerns so that they can be resolved amicably up front.

Does this mean we should be issuing blanket statements on who should post in threads? No. However, it does mean it's a more complicated dynamic that makes it more intimidating, or just plain annoying and drama-filled, for people with issues to speak up. Personally, I think it's pretty reasonable that a person wouldn't want to post something publicly if they think it will led to a whole shitstorm being stirred up on another platform they may or may not be able to see and then brought back here. The facebook thing also creates a lot of difficulty moderating these discussions, since they're only half taking place here, and then the reports start flying, and who the hell even knows. I don't have a solution. People can talk about whatever they want on facebook, and I'm not interested in indicting or scrutinizing people's activity on FB or other forums or social media or whatever. Really. I guess I just want to acknowledge that that kind of thing creates difficulty here.

In conclusion, be excellent to each other, and party on, dudes.

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 Post subject: Re: Problems with Modding
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:45 pm 
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this whole production made me realise this is probably exactly why some dumb governmental laws get made. the only opinion the lawmakers/voters hear are the people who oppose the current situation. they don't hear the opinion of the people who are happy with the existing situation. (and then when the law is passed, we're blindsided because we had no clue something was bugging some people.)

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 Post subject: Re: Problems with Modding
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:52 pm 
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For the record I didn't post anything on Facebook. I have learned the hard way the crossing social media streams can be problematic. I am sorry the whole issue came to a head because of my post in that thread, but I'm really happy with what Erika posted and with the resolution.

And for the record, I appreciate all the hard work the mods do, I know it's not easy. The PPK is still one of the most civil , kind places on the internet, which is in large part because of the great job you guys do.

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 Post subject: Re: Problems with Modding
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:56 pm 
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OooOOoooHhhh. Facebook. Huh. I was wondering where the seismic shift came from. Thanks for the backstory, JoPa and thank you all you jackbooted, zoot-suited, vespa riding, WONDERFUL mods. xoxoxo

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 Post subject: Re: Problems with Modding
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:08 pm 
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ijustdiedinside wrote:
i also don't think the thread is the post to place about being generally annoyed with kids, which was the post that desdemona was referring to.
This was what I was referring to in my post upthread, when I said I felt partially responsible for what had happened. I don't know anything about what might have been happening on FB, or what troops might have been rallied, or by whom. Any of the PPKers with whom I'm FB friends will have seen the typical mix of food, academics, politics, pet-related stuff, and general nonsense on my page; beyond that, I can't comment.

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 Post subject: Re: Problems with Modding
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:24 pm 
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jordanpattern wrote:

In conclusion, be excellent to each other, and party on, dudes.

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 Post subject: Re: Problems with Modding
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:27 pm 
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~Sz wrote:
OooOOoooHhhh. Facebook. Huh. I was wondering where the seismic shift came from. Thanks for the backstory, JoPa and thank you all you jackbooted, zoot-suited, vespa riding, WONDERFUL mods. xoxoxo


Ha ha! This was my response too. I'm not a member of facebook, so this explanation from JoPa filled in a lot of gaps for me . And yes, I echo the thanks to mods too. Thanks guys!

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 Post subject: Re: Problems with Modding
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:53 pm 
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It's always a Facebook crossover that causes fuckupery, it seems! I only have a couple PPKers on FB so I don't see a lot of that side.

I keep wanting to do a modding/meddling pun but it's not coming together. Whatever. Hugs all around.

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 Post subject: Re: Problems with Modding
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:32 pm 
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I am really not into people taking PPK issues to FB. You might get a little thrill, but come on, what are we achieving here? Some hurt feelings? Some increased paranoia from your FB friends that didn't know people bitched about other PPKers on FB? Some semblance of popularity? A little rebellion against the mods? It's also kind of embarrassing to real life friends who care even less about your online drama than they do about your in-jokes. Plus the PPK is deathly slow these days so for goodness sake, post on the PPK!

(I do not know who I'm speaking to as I saw nothing on FB).


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 Post subject: Re: Problems with Modding
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:11 pm 
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Moon wrote:
I keep wanting to do a modding/meddling pun but it's not coming together.


I've been trying to put something together with "Parents Just Don't Understand" and that's not coming together either.

(Also, not to totally derail, but someone please google the video for that and tell me how insane it is that Will Smith then is the same person as Will Smith now.)

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 Post subject: Re: Problems with Modding
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:12 pm 
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jean wrote:
~Sz wrote:
OooOOoooHhhh. Facebook. Huh. I was wondering where the seismic shift came from. Thanks for the backstory, JoPa and thank you all you jackbooted, zoot-suited, vespa riding, WONDERFUL mods. xoxoxo


Ha ha! This was my response too. I'm not a member of facebook, so this explanation from JoPa filled in a lot of gaps for me . And yes, I echo the thanks to mods too. Thanks guys!


Yep, I also left FB a while ago. I think there was a lot of miscommunication and I know I in particular made a lot of assumptions that ended up doing what assumptions tend to do (asparagus, u, me, etc.). I apologize for jumping to conclusions and for saying anything nasty or snarky in defending my beliefs. I still believe in an open, respectful, inclusive thread but I see now that a lot of the 'controversy' seemed to be imaginary.

I agree with vijita- the PPK can be slow some days, so keep it off FB and on the boards! Think of the poor bored workers without FB...

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 Post subject: Re: Problems with Modding
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:57 pm 
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Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
jean wrote:
~Sz wrote:
OooOOoooHhhh. Facebook. Huh. I was wondering where the seismic shift came from. Thanks for the backstory, JoPa and thank you all you jackbooted, zoot-suited, vespa riding, WONDERFUL mods. xoxoxo


Ha ha! This was my response too. I'm not a member of facebook, so this explanation from JoPa filled in a lot of gaps for me . And yes, I echo the thanks to mods too. Thanks guys!


Yep, I also left FB a while ago. I think there was a lot of miscommunication and I know I in particular made a lot of assumptions that ended up doing what assumptions tend to do (asparagus, u, me, etc.). I apologize for jumping to conclusions and for saying anything nasty or snarky in defending my beliefs. I still believe in an open, respectful, inclusive thread but I see now that a lot of the 'controversy' seemed to be imaginary.

I agree with vijita- the PPK can be slow some days, so keep it off FB and on the boards! Think of the poor bored workers without FB...


I have facebook and the PPK up at work all the time. And I am still not entertained enough. (Not ever bored enough to create drama, by the way). I need something to read inbetween crazy clients.

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 Post subject: Re: Problems with Modding
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:33 am 
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From this I learned that I don't have enough PPKers as FB friends. I generally don't talk PPK on FB and most PPKers I know don't either. Sometimes people will share links of PPK but that is about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Problems with Modding
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:34 am 
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linanil wrote:
From this I learned that I don't have enough PPKers as FB friends. I generally don't talk PPK on FB. Sometimes people will share links of PPK but that is about it.

This! I just spent the last hour going through my fb stream looking for drama and didn't see anything remotely PPK-related. I feel excluded now.

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 Post subject: Re: Problems with Modding
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:47 am 
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I have loads of PPker's as friends and didn't see it. And for that I am grateful.

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 Post subject: Re: Problems with Modding
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:53 am 
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Anek wrote:
linanil wrote:
From this I learned that I don't have enough PPKers as FB friends. I generally don't talk PPK on FB. Sometimes people will share links of PPK but that is about it.

This! I just spent the last hour going through my fb stream looking for drama and didn't see anything remotely PPK-related. I feel excluded now.


Ha! I totally did this too.

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