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 Post subject: How do you defend Tofu and Other Soy Products?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:49 am 
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I think I get so many questions of why do I eat tofu/soy products, don't I know it's totally unhealthy for me and I'm going to give myself cancer and alzhemiers and things like that. I've showed them what Isa/Matt wrote in AFR and other articles that say it's JUST A BEAN PEOPLE! (and everything in moderation). but just other factors I can pepper people with? I don't think it would bug me so much but then they throw out the whole GMO/processed nonsense..as if everything in a non-vegan world is as pure as the driven snow.

I do think people can consume too much soy (and this is why I cycle my eats) but I don't think that it's poison either.

Thanks in advance!

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 Post subject: Re: How do you defend Tofu and Other Soy Products?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:00 am 
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Why bother?

Seriously, if they were truly interested, they would have researched it themselves by now.

If soy were so evil, the Chinese civilization would have gone down like lead addled Rome. It didn't.

I'm sure I sound grumpy, but I see no reason to justify or defend my dietary preferences to anyone. I could not possibly care less what the people around me eat unless we want to swap cookie recipes.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you defend Tofu and Other Soy Products?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:13 am 
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Turn it around and ask them to defend meat and dairy.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you defend Tofu and Other Soy Products?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:16 am 
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I normally use a morning star +2

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 Post subject: Re: How do you defend Tofu and Other Soy Products?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:47 am 
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Frankly, unless it was a close friend or family member who genuinely cares about my health, I wouldn't bother justifying it, especially if they really had an ulterior motive & just wanted to be argumentative. I think a lot of the anti-soy sentiment is drummed up by the meat & dairy industry. Look at those ridiculous anti-soymilk ads the dairy industry ran. I'm personally not concerned about the amount of soy I eat. I stick to organic, non-GMO products & avoid soy protein isolate. I read somewhere once that omnis eat more soy on average than vegans & vegetarians in the form of tvp used as filler in burgers, sausages, etc - but I don't know if that's really true or not! And as lavawitch pointed out, people have been eating tofu for hundreds of years without succumbing to ill health as a result.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you defend Tofu and Other Soy Products?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:16 am 
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Just ask them what their sources are for that information. Chances are either it's just something they heard. If you want good information, read Jack Norris' posts on soy. http://jacknorrisrd.com

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 Post subject: Re: How do you defend Tofu and Other Soy Products?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:36 am 
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lavawitch wrote:
Why bother?

Seriously, if they were truly interested, they would have researched it themselves by now.

If soy were so evil, the Chinese civilization would have gone down like lead addled Rome. It didn't.

I'm sure I sound grumpy, but I see no reason to justify or defend my dietary preferences to anyone. I could not possibly care less what the people around me eat unless we want to swap cookie recipes.


I like how you think.


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 Post subject: Re: How do you defend Tofu and Other Soy Products?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:13 am 
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First of all, agreed with everyone else, ask them for research to prove whatever they are saying. Second, if they are telling you about GMO stuff, tell them you only buy organic soy or products that specify non gmo. Most of the soy products out there like soy milk, tofu etc... don't use GMO soy beans. Also you can mention that most of the GMO soy is used as animal feed for the beef and dairy milk that thye are eating and to go into soy bean oil and soy protein isolate stuff that is used in many more non vegan products than vegan stuff, so...yeah whatever. fork those people. they aren't your friends.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you defend Tofu and Other Soy Products?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:27 am 
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:) thanks all.

Well that's the whole thing. I don't even really "think" about it, I just buy whatever. I don't really use tvp/soy curls (only because hunting for it here is more stress than it's worth), but I always say what lavawitch says: Chinese people ain't suffering, eh? I also pointed out the soy/meat consumption. I just felt irked (and wanted some advice) after working a double shift and just being plagued about it all day.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you defend Tofu and Other Soy Products?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:38 am 
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Ancedotal accounts are not facts, but for myself personally, I have been eating soy foods several times a week for over 30 years, so I just don't have any fear over it.

For other people, I explain that soy is big money, as are the industries soy competes with: meat, dairy,etc.........so both sides will be trying to confuse people with bogus studies and other people will jump on board as people like their folklore.

I then point them to this section of my site where I collect positive articles about soy from authors with good credentials and good reputations:

http://beforewisdom.com/blog/soy/

I also like to print out a few copies of the PCRM fact sheet when I go tableing or leafletting. Sooner or later some lonely and angry person will come up to me to rant about soy. I tell them that I am not a doctor so I am not qualified to tell them anything, but they can read this sheet. It makes them go away quickly and quietly each time letting me get back towards spreading veganism.

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Last edited by beforewisdom on Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you defend Tofu and Other Soy Products?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:19 am 
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Adam Crisis wrote:
I normally use a morning star +2


This and Power Word: Shield.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you defend Tofu and Other Soy Products?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:46 am 
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im on the "why bother" train.

it does sound grumpy but im totally there.
im so sick of being constantly badgered about my choices in food that i get really overly sensitive when people start hounding me. i would say a lot of vegans are really AWARE of what they put in their mouth and research nutrition and where and how there food comes from.

typically people who eat meat and dairy dont think about that sort of thing (there are always exceptions of course!!)

sometimes i want to just say "at least i think about what i put in my mouth from crasshole"

but seriously if someone has a genuine question about soy rather than a snarky comment i usually go with the "its a personal choice" thing. there is so much conflicting info on soy. tons of research against it, tons of research for it.
i fully admit that tofu is a highly processed food but guess what i really like it so imagonna eat it.

i think if people know they have an intolerance with soy then they should stay away.
if they have a family history of breast cancer then they should research more as that seems like where alot of the conflicting research lies.

healthwise id much rather take my chance with highly processed tofu than dairy products and all the gross things in those. (not even factoring in the cruelty aspect)

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 Post subject: Re: How do you defend Tofu and Other Soy Products?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:02 pm 
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I just don't respond to folks concern-trolling about what I do or don't eat.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you defend Tofu and Other Soy Products?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:24 pm 
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LisaPunk wrote:
i fully admit that tofu is a highly processed food but guess what i really like it so imagonna eat it.

I wouldn't call tofu highly processed at all. I would put mock meats like deli slices, hotdogs, etc. in the highly processed category, I still eat them but I try for moderation.

basically, anything I can make myself at home I don't consider highly processed.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you defend Tofu and Other Soy Products?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:26 pm 
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LisaPunk wrote:
i fully admit that tofu is a highly processed food but guess what i really like it so imagonna eat it.


Tofu doesn't seem highly processed to me. It's just soymilk that has a coagulant added and is then pressed. What is so highly processed about that?

The soy hate is stupid and asking for sources will usually make people back off because honestly a lot of that is just ignorance that people hold onto because it makes them feel justified about their own choices.


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 Post subject: Re: How do you defend Tofu and Other Soy Products?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:35 pm 
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Adam Crisis wrote:
I normally use a morning star +2


Pfft, clerics.

FIREBALL.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you defend Tofu and Other Soy Products?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:38 pm 
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solipsistnation wrote:
Adam Crisis wrote:
I normally use a morning star +2


Pfft, clerics.

FIREBALL.


Clerics cant use a morning star because its sharp!!!!!!!...youre thinking of a mace.

Saving roll vs being a D&D newb FAILED!

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 Post subject: Re: How do you defend Tofu and Other Soy Products?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:47 pm 
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I agree with LW!

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 Post subject: Re: How do you defend Tofu and Other Soy Products?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:55 pm 
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HA.

Morning star points are NOT pointy enough to impale, slice, or pierce! They are NOT edged weapons-- they do crushing damage, and that's all!

Precedent:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/arcade/563201-d ... /faqs/1257
(Based on Second Edition rules)
Quote:
j. Morning Star. Long to excellent reach, a bit
slow, but great damage. Excellent for Cleric,
Elf, Thief.


http://www.wikihow.com/Play-a-Cleric-in ... agons-V3.5
Quote:
Buy Starting Equipment. A morningstar is a good weapon for a cleric. If you want a ranged weapon try a crossbow. You should also take advantage of the ability to wear armor and carry a shield. Do not forget a holy symbol, you need one to cast spells and turn undead.


And so on. So basically, don't rules lawyer ME, buddy. I cut my teeth on B2 and the ORIGINAL blue book, and I been rules lawyerin' with the best of them since before you could eat solid food.

Also I am very very old and very very nerdy.

TL;DR: FIREBALL

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 Post subject: Re: How do you defend Tofu and Other Soy Products?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:07 pm 
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I cut my teeth on the blue book as well sir! I am no pimple faced prepubescent itchy pants boy. I am a pimple faced postpubescent itchy pants man.

I have run through The Keep on the Borderlands numerous times!

Image

Anyways I dont subscribe to anything past AD&D, but I could swear a morning star was not allowed by a cleric

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 Post subject: Re: How do you defend Tofu and Other Soy Products?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:43 pm 
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This has to be one of the best PPK derails ever. So... unrelated. Yet somehow unsurprising.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you defend Tofu and Other Soy Products?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:24 pm 
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Adam Crisis wrote:
I cut my teeth on the blue book as well sir! I am no pimple faced prepubescent itchy pants boy. I am a pimple faced postpubescent itchy pants man.

I have run through The Keep on the Borderlands numerous times!

Image

Anyways I dont subscribe to anything past AD&D, but I could swear a morning star was not allowed by a cleric


That's the one! And yeah, I never got past first edition AD&D, but I think we house-ruled it in because they aren't really all that sharp and because nobody else wants morningstars anyway. First edition was basically a vehicle for house rules anyway...

Incidentally, do a google image search for "morning star" and see what the second hit is.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you defend Tofu and Other Soy Products?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:33 pm 
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solipsistnation wrote:
Incidentally, do a google image search for "morning star" and see what the second hit is.


Oddly enough, the topless woman is only second if you have safe search turned ON. Google filtering fail.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you defend Tofu and Other Soy Products?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:08 pm 
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Do the people who ask you, OP, about soy take kindly to you questioning their diets?

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 Post subject: Re: How do you defend Tofu and Other Soy Products?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:16 pm 
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solipsistnation wrote:

That's the one! And yeah, I never got past first edition AD&D, but I think we house-ruled it in because they aren't really all that sharp and because nobody else wants morningstars anyway. First edition was basically a vehicle for house rules anyway...

Incidentally, do a google image search for "morning star" and see what the second hit is.


these all look like they would rip and pierce flesh, sometimes a mace would have little bumpy nubs on it...but really I dont see much of a difference between a cleric using this and say using a spear

Image

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