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 Post subject: Ham sandwich sub for omni children?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:36 am 
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My kids aren't vegan, but they're open to trying vegan stuff. I have a request for ham sandwiches, and obviously I'd rather meet the request with something delicious and vegan. I can buy Quorn (boo hiss) but no vegan slices locally. I also can't buy vital wheat gluten. So, with that in mind- any ideas or recipes? PPK Assemble!


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 Post subject: Re: Ham sandwich sub for omni children?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:58 am 
Chard Martyr
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How about tempeh bacon? or even tofu bacon?
if you are able to get your hands on VWG ever this might be perfect - http://vegandad.blogspot.com/2008/09/hi ... hmeat.html

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 Post subject: Re: Ham sandwich sub for omni children?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:01 am 
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Redwood do a fake ham, but it's one of their harder to find ones. There's a Redwood fake gammon roasting lump that's kind of hammy.

There are Chinese Buddhist ham recipes that use bean curd sheets if you can get hold of them. I found one here but it's untested so I can't vouch for it.

You can extract the gluten out of white bread flour very easily; I used to do it before I moved near a shop that orders VWG in on demand.

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 Post subject: Re: Ham sandwich sub for omni children?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:20 am 
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I make my own gluten from flour, but it's hard to get enough flavour in for something like ham, and I haven't found a recipe...

I can't get redwoods without paying £18 postage! So that's out, also tempeh. I can get basic tofu, so that could work of anyone has a good recipe.


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 Post subject: Re: Ham sandwich sub for omni children?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:23 am 
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i've used the vegan with a vengeance tempeh bacon recipe on tofu before. i think if you use extra firm pressed tofu, you'll get a really good texture. there are also a bunch of recipes online like this one http://veganfeastkitchen.blogspot.com/2 ... bacon.html

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 Post subject: Re: Ham sandwich sub for omni children?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:36 am 
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Cookin Crunk has a ham flavored tofu marinade. The only problem may be the texture wouldn't be similar.


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 Post subject: Re: Ham sandwich sub for omni children?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:21 pm 
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Has anyone tried the ham in 'Caribbean Vegan'?

http://caribbeanvegan.wordpress.com/201 ... ean-vegan/

I thought I could possibly up the spices and use as a broth for gluten-from-flour..?

The problem is that if I'm not spot on first time then they'll never try my second attempt!


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 Post subject: Re: Ham sandwich sub for omni children?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:41 pm 
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Lightlife also has a box of vegan "ham slices." I like them. I think Yves does too.


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 Post subject: Re: Ham sandwich sub for omni children?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:47 pm 
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Cgvegan wrote:
Has anyone tried the ham in 'Caribbean Vegan'?

http://caribbeanvegan.wordpress.com/201 ... ean-vegan/

I thought I could possibly up the spices and use as a broth for gluten-from-flour..?

The problem is that if I'm not spot on first time then they'll never try my second attempt!



that sounds like it would work! i guess try it yourself first and you'll have some yummy seitan if it doesn't turn out perfect. I dunno how old your kids are, but if you presented it to them like an experiment would they be more willing to try your different attempts? like, if you made that seitan and then also made a tofu version, you could ask them which they liked better?

i dunno, but i hope you find something!

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 Post subject: Re: Ham sandwich sub for omni children?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:12 pm 
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The flavors in the Caribbean Vegan ham are perfect. Why don't you email Taymer and ask her advice?


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 Post subject: Re: Ham sandwich sub for omni children?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:37 pm 
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I've never tried the LightLife ham, but I love basically everything they do, for the most part, so it's worth trying if you can find it.

That Caribbean Vegan ham recipe sounds awesome--definitely trying that!

Cgvegan, can you buy VWG in bulk from an online provider? Paying the shipping will be unpleasant, but then you'd have a huge stash to keep you going for a while, maybe?

Also, I love IDJI's idea of giving them two choices and having them give feedback. They might find it really fun to be your testers and get to give their thoughts!

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 Post subject: Re: Ham sandwich sub for omni children?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:53 pm 
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The only VWG I can buy at all works out at about £10 for a kilo bag :(

My flour-gluten is great for most stuff but intense flavour is hard to achieve by boiling in broth.

I'd feel a bit bad bothering Taymer! But I am going to buy her book, it looks good!


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 Post subject: Re: Ham sandwich sub for omni children?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:16 pm 
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Cgvegan wrote:
The only VWG I can buy at all works out at about £10 for a kilo bag :(

My flour-gluten is great for most stuff but intense flavour is hard to achieve by boiling in broth.
Where do you live?!

I knead vegetable bouillon into the gluteny dough and steam it, rather than boil it. I have steamed it with herbal tea (fennel or something) or a soya sauce and stock broth before. You can also wrap it in foil really well (three layers, each with the "seam" in a different direction), slather it in vitalite with spices and brown sugar and herbs and nutritional yeast mixed in and bake it in a bread tin, which makes it ridiculously moist because it kinds of steams itself.

Good luck! And please share if you find anything worth making again.

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 Post subject: Re: Ham sandwich sub for omni children?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:42 pm 
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Gulliver wrote:
Cgvegan wrote:
The only VWG I can buy at all works out at about £10 for a kilo bag :(

My flour-gluten is great for most stuff but intense flavour is hard to achieve by boiling in broth.
Where do you live?!


If I'm not mistaken, Cgvegan lives in NI (is that right?) The costs to ship off mainline UK are much higher than the rest, but if you're willing to buy a few bags at a time then the costs go down- but still not cheap of course. I just used an NI postcode to do a dummy order from lowcarb megastore and it works out at around £5.70 a bag (including postage) if ordering 4, for instance. Not cheap, but a bit less than £10 a bag. Of course, that depends on what cash one has available- I don't think it would be something I could justify for myself right now, but then neither can I the £4.20 a bag it works out for the same amount with postage to my address at the moment!

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 Post subject: Re: Ham sandwich sub for omni children?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:14 pm 
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bekki wrote:
Cookin Crunk has a ham flavored tofu marinade. The only problem may be the texture wouldn't be similar.


I've made this and enjoyed it a lot. I added a smidge of liquid smoke to the marinade. I will say that my omni hubby was not fooled, he said it did not taste like ham at all. However, that being said, we both still enjoyed it and will make it again.

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 Post subject: Re: Ham sandwich sub for omni children?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:26 am 
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interrobang?! wrote:
Gulliver wrote:
Cgvegan wrote:
The only VWG I can buy at all works out at about £10 for a kilo bag :(

My flour-gluten is great for most stuff but intense flavour is hard to achieve by boiling in broth.
Where do you live?!


If I'm not mistaken, Cgvegan lives in NI (is that right?) The costs to ship off mainline UK are much higher than the rest, but if you're willing to buy a few bags at a time then the costs go down- but still not cheap of course. I just used an NI postcode to do a dummy order from lowcarb megastore and it works out at around £5.70 a bag (including postage) if ordering 4, for instance. Not cheap, but a bit less than £10 a bag. Of course, that depends on what cash one has available- I don't think it would be something I could justify for myself right now, but then neither can I the £4.20 a bag it works out for the same amount with postage to my address at the moment!


That's right, NI is considered to be somewhere slightly past the moon! I haven't encountered low carb megastore, I'll check it out, still a bit dear though when I can make it myself for pennies... I'll try the foil/baking method sometime, but I think I need it really dense for ham...


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 Post subject: Re: Ham sandwich sub for omni children?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:53 am 
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Cgvegan wrote:

That's right, NI is considered to be somewhere slightly past the moon! I haven't encountered low carb megastore, I'll check it out, still a bit dear though when I can make it myself for pennies... I'll try the foil/baking method sometime, but I think I need it really dense for ham...


I'm in the Republic of Ireland, so somewhere past just past the moon ;) iherb do reasonable postage (to ROI anyway), I think about $6 if you keep the order under 4lb. I've ordered a bag of gluten flour, vegan marshmallows, cheezy crackers and vegan chicken stock from them before, and the total was about $20 including shipping which I didn't think was too bad. You can use my referral code ADU882 to get a discount, if you want to give them a go.


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 Post subject: Re: Ham sandwich sub for omni children?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:31 am 
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i've done that carib vegan ham. it was delish, but it was so tiny for all that work!! it was very very dense though.

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 Post subject: Re: Ham sandwich sub for omni children?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:44 am 
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I can easily get redwoods stuff in Belfast, if you ever want anything posted just drop me a PM and we could sort something out.


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 Post subject: Re: Ham sandwich sub for omni children?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:51 am 
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fezza wrote:
I can easily get redwoods stuff in Belfast, if you ever want anything posted just drop me a PM and we could sort something out.


That's really sweet of you, but I'd hardly know what to order! I haven't had the chance to try stuff out! I'm in Portstewart on the N Coast, what do they offer in your shop?


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 Post subject: Re: Ham sandwich sub for omni children?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:01 am 
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There are two good health shops here with a variety of stuff, lots of redwoods and frys (although the frys stuff is frozen so not sure how it would post), dried stuffs (nutritional yeast!) . I think there is a wee health shop in Ballymena, I'm pretty sure someone mentioned it on a facebook page... mentioning facebook, The New Belfast Vegheads and Giro's (volunteer run vegan cafe) are good pages for getting info/asking questions. Have you tried searching for health shops in your area? Coleraine should be a big enough town to have one.

I'm hoping to take a run up to the North Coast in the Spring, there's potential for delivery of bulk or frozen items.


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 Post subject: Re: Ham sandwich sub for omni children?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:52 am 
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That would be great!

Coleraine has a truly shiitake Holland & Barratt and I think another health food shop somewhere; problem is that I always have three small boys in tow so I haven't had the chance to check it out. Also trips to such places have a major overhead in terms of boy-compensation! I should remove finger from arse and check it out really!


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 Post subject: Re: Ham sandwich sub for omni children?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:01 am 
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Also, I haven't seen it often here but if you ever happen to come across Asian brands like Mah-Wah, they have a ham product that is supposedly vegan. I know people have encountered in Asian markets in the US and I've seen it in 1 'health foods' type grocery store near me. I don't know if you get that stuff imported though.

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 Post subject: Re: Ham sandwich sub for omni children?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:52 pm 
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linanil wrote:
Also, I haven't seen it often here but if you ever happen to come across Asian brands like Mah-Wah, they have a ham product that is supposedly vegan.
Ah, yes - the mysterious "fish ham." We saw it at the Boston VegFest and were, um, nonplussed. (It may be good for all I know, but ham is one of the things I never really cared for so we weren't tempted. Something about the name just....no.)

http://www.maywahnyc.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=E008L

Anyway, I'd guess that for a regular old kid-friendly ham sandwich, the Redwood stuff would probably be your best bet; I say take Fezza up on her offer!

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 Post subject: Re: Ham sandwich sub for omni children?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:02 pm 
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I understand if pre-packaged stuff isn't an option, but I don't think you're going to make a realistic vegan ham at home without using wheat gluten. Though I could be wrong - maybe someone else has done it.

If you're willing or able to go with something pre-packaged and you can find it, I've had this ham log, and it's very convincing thinly sliced on a sandwich:

http://www.refrigeratedfrozenfood.com/a ... n-ham-roll

I mostly see it around the holidays though, my local Whole Foods carries it in November and December.

Otherwise I'd say mail order some vital wheat gluten and try one of Bryanna or Taymar's recipes.

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