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 Post subject: alt.bean.tempeh
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:16 pm 
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Baking In The Flavor

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Has anyone had any luck making tempeh with different beans? I've made soy and soy + grain a bunch of times but I'm ready to branch out. I ended up going with mung beans because they're small and nonthreatening, or at least they pretend to be.

I'm going to be checking the dehydrator every 5 minutes until I fall asleep!
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 Post subject: Re: alt.bean.tempeh
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:15 pm 
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I've never made tempeh yet, but I've heard that you need a different spoor/fungus/starter or whatever it is, to make a non-soy tempeh. So if it doesn't work, maybe look into getting the stuff you need to make the alt.bean.tempeh happen. Sorry I can't be more informative or helpful. Good luck!

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 Post subject: Re: alt.bean.tempeh
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:43 am 
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Baking In The Flavor

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Thanks, RO. In the past I've used a combination of your namesake and Rhizopus oryzae. I'm using straight R. oryzae this time. Maybe I'll wake up to something like this...


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 Post subject: Re: alt.bean.tempeh
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:01 am 
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oooh I'm so excited to see how this goes! I make my own soy tempeh, and I'd love to do other beans if it works...It was hard enough getting one starter to Israel though, so I'd prefer if it didn't just work with soy. Make sure you update!

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 Post subject: Re: alt.bean.tempeh
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:50 am 
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I am super curious too! I've recently started making my own Burmese (chickpea) tofu and love it-- alternative tempeh would be great too. Please do let us know what happens.


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 Post subject: Re: alt.bean.tempeh
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:51 am 
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I have made it with a blend of soy and black beans and it went without a hitch. I have never made it with non-soy beans exclusively though. It's been a while since I've made tempeh I should make some I want to say I have one pack of spores left. Where did you score your spores?

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 Post subject: Re: alt.bean.tempeh
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:39 am 
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Craiger, your black bean/soy tempeh is so beautiful! Everyone in this thread is inspiring me to get with it and make tempeh!

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 Post subject: Re: alt.bean.tempeh
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:35 am 
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I was certain this was going to be a thread about usenet. saddest. but also forking ace thread, so..not so sad after all

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 Post subject: Re: alt.bean.tempeh
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:56 pm 
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Joshua, you see what I did there?

The black bean and soy tempeh is lovely! Seeing skin on the black beans is giving me hope as my main concern has been with hulling the beans. After cooking, I squeezed them and rubbed them together underwater, hoping to get more usable surface area for the mycelium, but most of them are still whole.

I bought my starter at Rainbow Grocery in SF, but it can be ordered online from the company. The starter I had before was a big plastic bag and I only used about an eighth of it before it expired so having little packets is better for me.

http://www.culturesforhealth.com/tempeh-starter.html

Jerusalemboheme6, there are two starters available, R. oligosporus and R. oryzae, which both have different properties. R. oligosporus is the one that's usually used for soy because it has the strongest effect on lipase and protease. It's weaker on amylase, so it can be used on grains as well. R. orzyae has stronger amylase action, so it can't be used with grains. Of the two, R. oryzae penetrates less but has a stronger mycelium linking the beans together, if that makes any sense, so I'm hoping that will work better on beans that still have some hulls. I think you'll be okay with whatever starter you can get as long as you're not using a huge percentage of grain. With one you'll get fluffier, more cohesive tempeh, with the other, more solid beans held together by a stronger mycelium.

Update: It looks like a sprinkling of kosher salt this morning, so something is happening!


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 Post subject: Re: alt.bean.tempeh
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:54 pm 
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Yep, Cultures for Health is who I use too I was curious if there was something else out there. Regarding hulls you could try putting your beans in a mixing bowl of water and whirlpooling it to see if the beans and hulls collect separately. I do that with sprouts to separate the seed hulls from the sprouts. But for ones that the hulls don't come off man I don't know. Perhaps a mill to crack them while they are dry?

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 Post subject: Re: alt.bean.tempeh
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:29 pm 
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There are others, but you have to pay international shipping and it's not really worthwhile to order a small amount. I'm a little cautious about starters after the salmonella outbreak in NC a couple of years ago. I always steam mine first, so I guess it isn't an issue, but still...

I did swirl and massage them but I probably should have spend more time on it. I've been thinking about buying a KitchenAid grain mill, so maybe now is the time.


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 Post subject: Re: alt.bean.tempeh
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:05 pm 
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Have you cultured? A few times I have trimmed a bit off of each edge and put the strips back into the incubator through sporulation. Then I dehydrate them and grind in a coffee maker and use the powder to inoculate the next batch. I have made successful subsequent batches doing that but I haven't double downed for another batch beyond that out of paranoia.

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 Post subject: Re: alt.bean.tempeh
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:33 pm 
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Xocolatl wrote:
Thanks, RO. In the past I've used a combination of your namesake and Rhizopus oryzae. I'm using straight R. oryzae this time. Maybe I'll wake up to something like this...


Wait. Wait. Wait.

Is this what happens to tempeh while it ferments? I know nothing about fermentation, really, so...now I'm imagining my tempeh has all grown huge poofs of hair that then are scraped off before it's packaged for me to buy in the store.

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Awesome. Vegan. Rad.


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 Post subject: Re: alt.bean.tempeh
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:53 pm 
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Short story, tempeh is fungus.

Long story

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 Post subject: Re: alt.bean.tempeh
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:50 pm 
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craiger_ny wrote:
Have you cultured? A few times I have trimmed a bit off of each edge and put the strips back into the incubator through sporulation. Then I dehydrate them and grind in a coffee maker and use the powder to inoculate the next batch. I have made successful subsequent batches doing that but I haven't double downed for another batch beyond that out of paranoia.

You're still here to tell the tale, which proves that I'm too wimpy. I tried it once but when I ground it, it was clumping a little so I put it back in the dehydrator. Then I decided that since it hadn't dehydrated fully the first time it was probably contaminated with all sorts of horrible things. I threw it out and never tried it again. As I said...WIMP!


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 Post subject: Re: alt.bean.tempeh
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:28 am 
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I get my starter from Cultures for Health, I believe I've got R. oligosporus . I basically have to order from Cultures for Health...I don't believe I've ever seen anywhere else that ships to Israel, and while I searched high and low among health food stores here, never found cultures locally. And like Xocolatl mentioned, with International shipping, I can't really get behind ordering a tiny amount, financially.

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 Post subject: Re: alt.bean.tempeh
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:39 am 
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It's done! It looks rather off-putting, like some kind of mutant pistachio torrone. Despite having hulls on a lot of the beans, it's firm and holding together well. It doesn't feel anything like the soy tempeh that I've made with a mixed starter. The best comparison I can come up with is the stem of a really fresh king oyster mushroom -- very firm, very mushroom-y. There's no mushroom smell whatsoever and I think that's because the R. oryzae went amylase-crazy on the starch in the beans, resulting in a very slight alcohol odor that I hope will cook off.

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 Post subject: Re: alt.bean.tempeh
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:58 pm 
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Xocotoal, that is beautiful tempeh; not off putting at all. I'd eat it!

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 Post subject: Re: alt.bean.tempeh
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:32 am 
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Seriously, that looks awesome! You have definitely inspired me to experiment!

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 Post subject: Re: alt.bean.tempeh
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:50 am 
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allularpunk wrote:
Xocolatl wrote:
Thanks, RO. In the past I've used a combination of your namesake and Rhizopus oryzae. I'm using straight R. oryzae this time. Maybe I'll wake up to something like this...


Wait. Wait. Wait.

Is this what happens to tempeh while it ferments? I know nothing about fermentation, really, so...now I'm imagining my tempeh has all grown huge poofs of hair that then are scraped off before it's packaged for me to buy in the store.


and this totally comes to my mind, AP https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GrOwYMh865w


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 Post subject: Re: alt.bean.tempeh
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:13 pm 
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Experiment, JB6! If mine held together despite being about 60% whole beans, it may not be as tricky as I thought.

I've cooked half of it and it was better than I expected. I stir-fried it with kecap manis, sambal oelek, lime juice, and lots of shallots so I'm not sure if the alcohol smell vanished on its own or if I just covered it up. Either way, it was good and I think I may make a Lancashire hot pot with the rest.

And now I'm on to Chinese rice wine!


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 Post subject: Re: alt.bean.tempeh
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:22 am 
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Ooooh let us know how the rice turns out! So much excitement! I've been thinking about making miso, I just don't think I have the patience to wait THAT LONG for something to ferment...

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 Post subject: Re: alt.bean.tempeh
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:14 pm 
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I had an old packet of spores in the fridge (like very old). So anyway red beans are a go. Whole and not hulled. I think it is safe to say that hulled or not isn't as big of a deal as cracked or not. I don't think the fungus penetrates as well if the bean is whole as this isn't a very dense cake. Pics are before and after simmering.

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 Post subject: Re: alt.bean.tempeh
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:14 pm 
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I should amend that, I think that bare minimum the flesh of the bean has to be exposed in some way. Whether by cracking or removing hulls. The more surface area the better type of thing. This was the least dense/least amount of fungus batch I have ever done. In any way it can be done I think that the more of the bean innards that can be exposed to the fungus the better.

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