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 Post subject: my dr told me not to eat a lot of grains....
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:42 pm 
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so i had my yearly physical this morning and we were discussing my vegan diet. my dr doesnt have any problem she was just asking what specifically i ate and was saying that some people end up just eating all carbs (crackers, pasta, bread) and that i should mainly be eating a lot of vegs.

i said i mainly ate vegs, beans, and grains, though if i was to be honest occasionally i still ate french fries (and other crepe stuff)

then she went on saying that i didnt really need to eat many grains and that i should mainly be eating vegs, beans, and seeds and she said that quinoa and amaranth were good because they were grains but were more seed like.

i guess her reasoning was the whole carbs=bad thing.
i see some of the logic behind what she's saying but at the same time ive never heard anyone telling people to cut down on whole grains. (unless you are on some wacky atkins crepe)

there wasnt any specific medical reason behind her telling me this pertaining to me personally either. just saying not to eat a lot of grains.

i find that odd.

then she was telling me about some random article she read that suggested vegans eat like one macadamia nut a day or something because it contained something that was hard to get on a vegan diet. she couldnt remember but she thought it might have been magnesium or manganese or something. im guessing not magnesium since i think beans have a lot of magnesium????
she wasnt suggetsting i follow this weird macadamia nut rule she was just sort of telling me about it anecdotally. anyone hear about this wackiness? i tried googling it but i just came out with vegan recipes that have macadamia nuts

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 Post subject: Re: my dr told me not to eat a lot of grains....
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:55 pm 
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A few years ago my doctor recommended the South Beach Diet... I think that many general practitioners have the same highly personal food/diet preferences as most of the rest of us, but they're kind of in a position of power to "recommend" things to their patients.

I haven't heard anything about the macadamia nut thing... really strange!


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 Post subject: Re: my dr told me not to eat a lot of grains....
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:03 pm 
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Nicole wrote:
... I think that many general practitioners have the same highly personal food/diet preferences as most of the rest of us, but they're kind of in a position of power to "recommend" things to their patients.

I haven't heard anything about the macadamia nut thing...



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 Post subject: Re: my dr told me not to eat a lot of grains....
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:11 pm 
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A person next to me shopping the bulk bins once told me "Dr. Oz recommends one Brazil nut per day for your daily requirement of selenium".

Perhaps she got macadamia nuts and magnesium mixed up with Brazil nuts and selenium? (long shot)

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 Post subject: Re: my dr told me not to eat a lot of grains....
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:13 pm 
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Our doctor (a vegan) is on the no oil, no nuts/avocados/fats, no sugar bandwagon. Smile and nod, then go home and do your thing if your test results are fine! I can see limiting refined carbohydrates like crackers and stuff, but whole grains?

Never heard anything about macadamias, but totally unrelated, I once read to eat a Brazil nut every day because it's one of the best sources of selenium.


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 Post subject: Re: my dr told me not to eat a lot of grains....
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:22 pm 
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I bet it was the Brazil nut thing!


I just smiled & nodded while thinking about how drs get almost no nutritional training in med school

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 Post subject: Re: my dr told me not to eat a lot of grains....
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:50 pm 
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I would totally have brought up the health benefits of something like steel-cut oats... a doctor can pry my oats from my cold dead hands.


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 Post subject: Re: my dr told me not to eat a lot of grains....
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:51 pm 
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yeah i was told by a mental health professional years ago about the brazil nuts. she has no nutritional training and kept giving me nutrition advice!


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 Post subject: Re: my dr told me not to eat a lot of grains....
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:53 pm 
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My omni doctor only tested my B12. He's not a RD but would refer me to one if I needed questions answers.
It's one thing to not know the right answer when it comes to nutrition and another to dish woo and wrong ideas.

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 Post subject: Re: my dr told me not to eat a lot of grains....
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:13 pm 
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I am sure she meant Brazil nuts and selenium (which is actually true). And you need to either find a new doctor or tell her to stfu because she has no idea what she is talking about. Or maybe that's just my mood talking. But, indeed, it seems she has no idea what she is talking about. And seriously, I would tell a doctor who told me to avoid grains and especially eat macadamia nuts that she is giving out irresponsible and anti-evidence-based advice and needs to better understand the scope of her training and its limitations. Then I would find a new doctor.

The no grain thing is a paleo bullshiitake thing. Every reputable dietary association is all about the whole grains. There is more good evidence to support eating whole grains than almost any other food.


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 Post subject: Re: my dr told me not to eat a lot of grains....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:12 am 
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Apart from brazil nuts, another great source of selenium is actually... whole grains!

That said, I do sort of buy into the low carb stuff. There is some interesting evidence to support it. It may not be for everyone, but I know several people who really benefit from it, including my partner and mother in law. If you feel fine and are happy with your health and body, I wouldn't worry about it. And I agree with the others who said it seems that your doctor doesn't know what she's talking about.

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 Post subject: Re: my dr told me not to eat a lot of grains....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:44 am 
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i've also heard that eating a walnut or flax daily is good for the omega acids.

i can understand a concern with you eating processed grains (by which i mean non-whole, not that the grains shouldn't be manipulated by evil human hands), but other than that i wouldn't worry too much.

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 Post subject: Re: my dr told me not to eat a lot of grains....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:26 am 
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Sometimes I think I'd like to try eating a little more low carb just for the hell of it, but the thing that stumps me is that I feel like it would be pretty expensive to eat that way. Whole grains like brown rice and ww pasta are fairly cheap and add bulk to meals, if I cut those out I don't know how I'd fill up without eating double the amount of beans and veggies and nuts and tofu, which is pretty expensive. I dunno, maybe I'm just imagining that.

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 Post subject: Re: my dr told me not to eat a lot of grains....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:37 am 
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There is so much conflicting advice out there. Lately I've been saturating my brain with any article I can read about vegan, plant based, vegetarian, paleo, low carb, gluten-free. I have decided plantbased is for me. I love me some gluten! LOL I think whole grains are great as long as they aren't cutting into my veggie/fruit consumption. I'm so compulsive I can overdo anything and make it bad for me! Tell me I can eat nuts and I want to eat them by the shovelful. But that's just how I am. I am trying to learn moderation in all areas of life........If only I would overdo it on exercise. Weird that has never happened.......:o
Molly

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 Post subject: Re: my dr told me not to eat a lot of grains....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:44 am 
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Quarantined wrote:
Sometimes I think I'd like to try eating a little more low carb just for the hell of it, but the thing that stumps me is that I feel like it would be pretty expensive to eat that way. Whole grains like brown rice and ww pasta are fairly cheap and add bulk to meals, if I cut those out I don't know how I'd fill up without eating double the amount of beans and veggies and nuts and tofu, which is pretty expensive. I dunno, maybe I'm just imagining that.

In my experience, it is quite a bit more expensive, especially compared to a 'rice 'n beans' diet. With a little extra effort you can make it more affordable though. Buy nuts, seeds etc. in bulk (no need to worry about spoiling if you are using them a lot). Eat seasonal veggies that are on discount at the supermarket or get them cheap from markets and ethnic stores. Make a lot of stuff yourself. When my partner is low carbing, I like to make our own seitan, low carb bread and flatbread, nut cheese, desserts etc. If you are lucky enough to find low carb vegan versions of those things in a store, they are usually a lot more expensive than their homemade counterparts.

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 Post subject: Re: my dr told me not to eat a lot of grains....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:59 am 
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Thanks Cornelie, those are all good suggestions. I do already cook all of my own stuff mainly from scratch, and don't really eat much bread though I don't monitor it or anything. I guess it's just hard to shift my focus from a more traditional entree with rice and potatoes or pasta to a different way. I should try making some low-carb bread, though, since that's another thing I find convenient, to be able to grab a pb&j on the weekends or whatever.

I did check out this book, the Vegetarian Low Carb Diet by Rose Elliot, from the library a while ago, just for ideas. I've been meaning to try doing low-carb just as an experiment for a while. I just want to see what it's like, but as you and others said I don't think it's necessary for everyone from a health perspective.

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 Post subject: Re: my dr told me not to eat a lot of grains....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:17 am 
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There is a low carb thread somewhere around here. Let's revive that one so we don't mess up LisaPunk's thread with recipe suggestions and stuff. viewtopic.php?f=18&t=23045&hilit=low+carb+veganism

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 Post subject: Re: my dr told me not to eat a lot of grains....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:26 am 
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Quarantined wrote:
Sometimes I think I'd like to try eating a little more low carb just for the hell of it, but the thing that stumps me is that I feel like it would be pretty expensive to eat that way. Whole grains like brown rice and ww pasta are fairly cheap and add bulk to meals, if I cut those out I don't know how I'd fill up without eating double the amount of beans and veggies and nuts and tofu, which is pretty expensive. I dunno, maybe I'm just imagining that.


I wonder if that's part of the ideal, though? Like no one advocates the "eat like a poor person" diet. Its just assumed that poor people eat, well, poorly.

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 Post subject: Re: my dr told me not to eat a lot of grains....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:39 am 
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LisaPunk wrote:
then she went on saying that i didnt really need to eat many grains and that i should mainly be eating vegs, beans, and seeds and she said that quinoa and amaranth were good because they were grains but were more seed like.

i guess her reasoning was the whole carbs=bad thing.


So, I don't necessarily see that your doc is on the carbs are bad bandwagon here. Giving the benefit of the doubt (which may or may not be deserved), I'd guess that what she was trying to get at is the fact that if you eat a lot of veggies and fruits and things, you're probably getting the majority of the carbs you need from there, and don't need to worry about getting extra carbs from grains. It seems to me that a lot of people don't realize just how many carbs they are eating, or that they think that because they're eating whole grains, they can eat as much as they want, which isn't ideal. I know I tend towards filling up on grains out of laziness when I don't think about it. It's not the biggest deal, but I do notice I feel better (and perform better athletically) when I'm focusing on getting my nutrition from veggies, fruits, beans/proteins, and fats, rather than lots of grains. Obviously, grains are relatively cheap ways to get the calories you need, plus they're generally easy to prepare and store, so those considerations are entirely valid. What it comes down to is that you should eat in a way that works for you.

Anyway, I just wanted to point out that your doctor didn't say carbs are bad (based on what you posted), and you didn't seem to ask her why she said the things she said, so it's probably not fair to write her off as irresponsible or ignorant or whatever (which isn't you doing that so much as other posters in this thread).

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 Post subject: Re: my dr told me not to eat a lot of grains....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:52 am 
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I eat a low carb diet with almost no grains to treat a health issue, and still think a doctor telling you to avoid whole grains when you have no health issues that would indicate you'd be healthier on a lower carb diet is probably talking out of their asparagus.

In general I think doctors giving nutrition advice are talking out of their asparagi and should better understand the limits of their training and refer you to a dietician if they think you'd be helped by a dietary change.


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 Post subject: Re: my dr told me not to eat a lot of grains....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:01 am 
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But the doctor didn't say to avoid whole grains. She simply said that LP didn't NEED to eat a LOT of them, which is perfectly reasonable. You may think that doctors giving nutrition advice are talking out of their asparagi, and that's fine, but I'd hope you wouldn't expect anyone to take the word of an internet stranger over their doctor, asparagus talking or not.

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 Post subject: Re: my dr told me not to eat a lot of grains....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:38 am 
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I agree with jp. It didn't seem the doctor was promoting a low carb diet - she just seemed concerned that a lot of vegans tend to fill up on crackers and bread and pasta in a way that can crowd out other foods. I don't know if that's true for other vegans but it's been my habit. Refined carbs carry a lot of calories. They are also very affordable though. I do feel better if my plate is half veg a protein plus a small serve of carbs with a glass of soymilk - not that I eat that way regularly. It gets expensive and I love a big plate of pasta or sitting in front of the tv devouring a box of cheap crackers when I want. And don't get me started on toast made with large slices of bread - it's a food group in this house.

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 Post subject: Re: my dr told me not to eat a lot of grains....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:43 am 
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My takeaway from the conversation with your doctor is basically make sure you don't rely too much on one food group/type of food. (Because you know, you're vegan so you don't have a healthy variety of options available to you like Omni's do, like bacon and steak.) And that advice is pretty decent IMO, a common sense way to help assure you get a variety of different minerals and vitamins through food rather than supplements.


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 Post subject: Re: my dr told me not to eat a lot of grains....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:54 am 
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I don't know. I still can't believe that eating lots of, say, brown rice—in addition to fruits and vegetables and beans—is a bad thing. As long as your overall calorie intake is reasonable.

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 Post subject: Re: my dr told me not to eat a lot of grains....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:03 am 
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grains and seeds contain enzyme-inhibitors and other anti-nutrients that they developed to deter animals from eating them... and gluten can cause health issues even with individuals who are not genetic celiacs.

in our house, we don't eat grains everyday and when we do we prepare them by soaking, sprouting, or souring.


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