new WW plan coming out soon

casserolesncakeholes · **Joined:** Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:23 pm **Posts:** 69

It's not a quirk - points are counted for fruit and veggies when they are in a recipe. This explains it (from http://www.weightwatchers.com/util/art/index_art.aspx?tabnum=1&art_id=106231&sc=3010):

7. All fruit, and most vegetables, are free
You don't need to count the PointsPlus values for these items. However, it's important to pay attention to how satisfied you feel when you eat these zero PointsPlus value foods. They do still contain calories. Our research has shown the amount a person is likely to eat following this plan, and we've taken this amount into account in your PointsPlus budget.

8. Fruit (and vegetables) in recipes still contribute toward the PointsPlus values
Just as we've always done with 0 PointsPlus value vegetables, even 0 PointsPlus value fruits contribute toward the total PointsPlus values of a recipe, whether it's a Weight Watchers recipe or one you build yourself in the Recipe Builder. Recipes add up the nutritional info for all their ingredients. If you ate fruit only, save it as a "meal" rather than a "recipe."

Aubade · **Posted:** Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:34 pm

I find this new plan very confusing with the whole counts in recipes but not separate thing. So if I make a recipe salad, it has points but if I save the same ingredients separately as a meal, it's zero? I don't like that. The stregth of ww is that it's simple, so for me two rules for the same thing ruins that.

I wish we could have a choice to use either the old or new plan. :(

casserolesncakeholes · **Joined:** Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:23 pm **Posts:** 69

I agree, it's confusing! Do you cross the line when you put dressing on vegetables? If a "recipe" that only has grapes gets counted, I guess so. But I have been only counting the dressing for my salads.

I'm still pretty excited about this new plan. I'll have to see what kind of results I get, but the fruit is nice and by getting extra points it's made up for the extra points on things like beans. I might change my approach if I don't lose.

Last night I had a great, filling supper for 8 pts: 5 points of soy curls (1.5 cups dry), 2 points of daiya (1/4 cup) some tofu sour cream for 1 point and some salsa. I soaked the curls in weak broth then dry fried them for about 10 minutes before putting in some cumin and chili powder, then quickly tossed them with the daiya in the pan.

Ruby Rose · **Posted:** Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:52 pm

I've read those FAQs you kindly posted, c'n'ch - and found it a bit concerning that my WW leader would be saying something different than that - I'll have to check with her. However, I really don't get the recipe thing - I've entered a load of AfR recipes and others into the recipe builder today, and all of the point counts per serving have come out will all of the fruits and veggies as zero.

casserolesncakeholes · **Joined:** Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:23 pm **Posts:** 69

we'll figure this all out somehow, ruby rose!

i get the same results described by joyful girl in the recipe builder - right beside the fruit or veggie it says 0 points but then at the bottom in the total for the recipe it adds up as if points were counted for the fruit and veggies. so, when i put in the cauliflower ricotta recipe (and i'm doing this to show how the recipe builder works, the points might be different for others because of the ingredients i used), it showed
olive oil 2
cauliflower 0
tofu 18
nutritional yeast 6
lemon juice 0

then at the bottom it says
Points plus values: 31 Servings: 3 Points per serving: 10

if the individual items were added up, it would come to 26, not 31

to compare, i just made a "recipe" that's just cauliflower, and beside the same amount of cauliflower (1.5 lb) it says 0 points, but the total points for the recipe is 4.

blisslikethis · **Posted:** Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:27 pm

I've been considering joining WW, but the different point values for the same thing sounds confusing to me. Now I am not so sure.

Angelina · **Posted:** Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:30 pm

casserolesncakeholes wrote:

we'll figure this all out somehow, ruby rose!

i get the same results described by joyful girl in the recipe builder - right beside the fruit or veggie it says 0 points but then at the bottom in the total for the recipe it adds up as if points were counted for the fruit and veggies. so, when i put in the cauliflower ricotta recipe (and i'm doing this to show how the recipe builder works, the points might be different for others because of the ingredients i used), it showed
olive oil 2
cauliflower 0
tofu 18
nutritional yeast 6
lemon juice 0

then at the bottom it says
Points plus values: 31 Servings: 3 Points per serving: 10

if the individual items were added up, it would come to 26, not 31

to compare, i just made a "recipe" that's just cauliflower, and beside the same amount of cauliflower (1.5 lb) it says 0 points, but the total points for the recipe is 4.

How much tofu is in that recipe? According to my guide, tofu has 2 points for 3 oz., and 1 point for the light tofu. I can't imagine using so much tofu that it comes out to 18! Of course I do not know the recipe..

Ruby Rose · **Posted:** Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:52 am

I've just done the exact same recipe in the Recipe Builder, and the UK one says:
450g cauliflower = 0
2 tsp olive oil = 3
salt = 0
2 x 250g packs Cauldron tofu = 14
3 x 25g servings Engevita nooch = 7
2 Tbs lemon juice = 0
black pepper = 0

Propoints value = 24 Number of servings = 6
Propoints value per serving = 4

The answer is clear... you need to do UK Weight Watchers!! I took a screen shot, but I can't work out how to save it to photobucket to post it here.

casserolesncakeholes · **Joined:** Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:23 pm **Posts:** 69

Sorry if this is confusing - I only meant to illustrate the 0 point veggie issue, maybe I shouldn't have used a recipe other people are familiar with. I used the information directly from the packaging on the tofu I use and for the amount I used (which could have been more than the recipe called for because I could have modified it to use the whole pack of tofu), so no one ele should be concerned that if affects their points for that recipe.

I guess that also illustrates part of the approach I take to tracking my points - ingredients like tofu vary widely in their nutritional content, so I always use the info from my package instead of just using the NI from the recipe book or picking "tofu" in the recipe builder. So each type of tofu I use becomes added as as a "create your own food" and then I just put in the proportion of the package that I used when I eat it or put it in a recipe.

casserolesncakeholes · **Joined:** Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:23 pm **Posts:** 69

Ruby Rose wrote:

I've just done the exact same recipe in the Recipe Builder, and the UK one says:
2 tsp olive oil = 3

that's interesting - in my ww, which is canadian, 2 tsp oil is 2 points. i wonder how different these programs are.

joyfulgirl · **Posted:** Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:38 am

I think this is just a problem with coding. They need some code in there that tells the recipe builder not to include the nutritional info from fruits and vegetables. There's no real reason it should work for the UK version and not the US version, so it must be the code.
I'm going to email them about it and see what they say. but for now, I'm not putting any fruits or veggies into the recipe builder.

blisslikethis · **Posted:** Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:36 pm

Just joined today! I am pretty excited. I was completely shocked to see how many points my usual breakfast is worth. Had to change things up this morning and add some fruit. The problem you've been discussing with the points varying concerned me, but hey, I'm still going to give it a try. Although, I may be following joyfulgirl's lead and not put fruits and veggies in the recipe builder.

Ruby Rose · **Posted:** Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:46 pm

Well done for getting going, bliss! Don't worry about the points discussion - it's more like we're just trying to work out why there are minor variations in the recipe builder systems, not concerns with the points system itself. Good luck with your first week!

bcakes · **Posted:** Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:04 pm

This thread inspired me to join WW and lose the weight I put on since I started working (and sitting on my butt all day eating junk). With the free fruits and veggies, I feel like I'm getting lots of food, so I was shocked that I actually lost some weight my first week. It will be excellent motivation for me to keep at it. Thanks to everyone who posted here for prompting me to get started.

casserolesncakeholes · **Joined:** Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:23 pm **Posts:** 69

good luck bcakes!

Scruffleupagus · **Posted:** Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:12 pm

Hey guys. I'm just tuning into this thread. I have decided to get into this. I know the old point system did wonders for my dad, step-mom, and a college friend. I started to do it with a group of girls from work at an old job a few years ago so I was interested in trying it out again.

I thought veggies were always free? I used to supplement my 6-point burrito w/ a side salad or a cup of fruit or munch on an apple if I was hungry between meals. I also found the 8 bottles of water I was told to drink really helped. Sometimes I'd also put some fiber powder (zero points) in some vitamin water (also zero points) and would drink that while I was at work (especially before meals). Those were tips I heard during a few meetings I went to with a friend who was a member.

I've seen that you guy buy the starter kit (the new one for this year) is $100 bucks... But all I want is just a briefing on the new system, etc. I already know my point allowance and I found free calculator apps on my Droid (with a promise of a system update for the Points Plus soon).

Scruffleupagus · **Posted:** Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:37 pm

Scruffleupagus wrote:

I found free calculator apps on my Droid (with a promise of a system update for the Points Plus soon).

Correction, it is already updated to calculate by Protein, Carbs, Fat, & Fiber. :-) So... Can someone sum up the deal with the fruits/veggies? Or just the changes in general? Sorry if I missed this, but there are 4 pages of back dialog so I figured it'd be a good time to sum up? -bats eyes in an irresistibly, adorable manner-

joyfulgirl · **Posted:** Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:11 am

Scruffleupagus wrote:

I found free calculator apps on my Droid (with a promise of a system update for the Points Plus soon).

Correction, it is already updated to calculate by Protein, Carbs, Fat, & Fiber. :-) So... Can someone sum up the deal with the fruits/veggies? Or just the changes in general? Sorry if I missed this, but there are 4 pages of back dialog so I figured it'd be a good time to sum up? -bats eyes in an irresistibly, adorable manner-

Veggies didn't change much from the old system. Most of them are free except they're exceptionally higher in fat, proteins, or carbs. So vegetables like potatoes, corn, beans, and avocados have points values.
Fruits used to have points values on the old system, but now they are free too--except dried fruits and fruit juices and anything with added sugar (like canned).
Most points have changed from what they used to be. Rice and pasta are now 5 points for a cup instead of 4, but I guess that stuff you know? I don't think much else changed, but I can't remember now. Post more questions if you have 'em. I'll respond better in the morning.

Scruffleupagus · **Posted:** Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:33 am

Haha! Well, it turns out I don't actually know my points allowance... And since I can't find an answer anywhere as to how to figure this out, my guess is that WW has made it so you have to put your info into a calculator instead of the simple ways of before...

joyfulgirl · **Posted:** Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:16 am

I got a response from WW on the question of the recipe builder counting points for fruits and veggies.

A WW customer service associate wrote:

Thank you for contacting us with your inquiry regarding Points Plus™ values in recipes. Most vegetables and all fruits are zero points but they still have calories. As part of this program we "deemed" them to be zero points. If you fed their nutritional information into a Points Plus™ calculator, it would often come up with Points Plus™ values. We did this "deeming" because we want you to eat fruits and vegetables.

However it has always been our policy at Weight Watchers to incorporate the nutrients of vegetables (and now fruit) into recipes and the Recipe Builder. Why? A few reasons:

1) Our recipes are often featured in articles and magazines nationally and as a result we need to disclose this info to ensure the appropriate calories and nutrient content are displayed if evaluated by organizations outside of Weight Watchers. We use the Recipe Builder to calculate our recipes.

2) Since many non-Weight Watchers recipes include nutritional information these days, we want our calculations to match those you may do for recipes you find in other places. We don’t want to unfairly advantage our own recipes. And we don't want your recipes to look out of whack either.

3) Once you start combining vegetables and fruits with other foods, you change the experience of eating them. Few people go crazy on plain carrots but might on carrot cake. To ignore them in recipes would place our member at risk for abuse potential. There is an adjustment made in the Daily Target for eating fruits and vegetables with a Points Plus™ value of 0. This adjustment was based on eating the foods in their “natural and singular” state which did not include use in recipes.

While we establish all these rules and algorithms for our program and our site, with weight loss there is always something a little "squishy." Sometimes you need to make the best call on how you're going to interpret the rules. And no computer program can do that for you.

It makes sense. So on overall healthy things where the vegetables are still vegetabley (like salads and stir fries) I'll leave the veggies out of the calculation.

Scruffleupagus · **Posted:** Sun Jan 16, 2011 1:41 pm

I thought that was basically the rules before? The only limitations to the fruits and veggies were really common sense to me... High sugar fruits & high starch veggies should count towards your points. And even on the old rules, it should make sense to everyone that a modestly-sized zero-point salad is awesome to supplement a meal, but obviously you can't expect to gorge all day long on zero point soups, salads, foods and lose weight?

Oooooo I should see what points Miso Soup is worth... Very nutritious and having a small cup of soup (or an apple) before a meal is great for portion control.

casserolesncakeholes · **Joined:** Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:23 pm **Posts:** 69

On the old plan, the NI for everything always counted, and it was just that a lot of veggies ended up being 0 points for one serving because they are low in fat and calories and high in fiber. We were always supposed to count the points if we ate enough veggies to make it pointy, whether it was on its own or in a recipe.

On this plan, fruits and most vegetables on their own are formally designated as zero points. (I'm not talking about them in recipes - I think we've covered that thoroughly!) Before, if you put carrots in as a food on its own, at a certain amount of carrots you'd start getting points just because it was generated from the NI and the calories were enough to warrant points. Now, you can put in 100 cups of carrots, and it will stay at zero points. Same with 100 apples, zero points.

The limit is that you're only supposed to eat to satisfaction.

I think this is great. The old plan worked for me to lose weight but it just wasn't enough food. So food was all I could think about. I think weight might come off a little more slowly with this one (although it's going pretty well for me so far), but way more people will be able to stay on it. Sure, some people won't make the best decisions about how many fruits/veggies to eat but most people will probably be eating healthier than pre-ww anyway and if they don't like their results they can chose to limit it a bit more.

Nebraskalaska · **Posted:** Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:46 pm

Hiiii. I joined weight watchers in late december after discovering I had put on a lot of weight over the course of half a year. I can see some people are skeptical about the new plan so I just wanted to throw it out there and say that the new points system is totally working for me. So far I've lost 7 pounds in about 3 1/2 weeks-ish. I'm really happy because I'm eating well, and I don't feel deprived at all. Though occasionally I get an insane craving to eat an entire loaf of bread and slather every piece in earth balance. Other than that, not too bad! The exercise thing isn't so bad either, I keep it pretty moderate and it's still effective.

casserolesncakeholes · **Joined:** Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:23 pm **Posts:** 69

Wow, that's great! I'm weighing myself for the second time on Wednesday. First week I was down 4.8 pounds, this week I have my period so I'm not quite sure what will happen. I'm planning to lose around 30 pounds.

designedtobekind · **Posted:** Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:31 pm

I hit a mini-plateau for a few weeks, but I'm suddenly down about 5 pounds, which makes 11 since Thanksgiving! I have about 10 to go. I'm finding that I'm really satisfied. On the old plan, I was starving, and I could never stick with it because I need volume to stay satisfied, and it was frustrating seeing points add up for fruit and kale. I'm not stuffing myself, but I feel a lot happier this way, and I'm still allowing myself a couple treats here and there.

I'm sure the exercise is helping, too.

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