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 Post subject: paleo vegan resources
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:25 pm 
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Hearts James Cromwell
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So, an alternative health practitioner- a chiro who specializes in nutrition- has recommended that i go paleo; and since i'm mostly vegan that means by default going paleo vegan.

This (huge) diet change is meant to address the overall inflammation in my body...

do you know of any good paleo vegan resources?? online? books?

I got the Earth Diet and it's a good start...


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 Post subject: Re: paleo vegan resources
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:08 am 
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There is no such thing as THE palep diet, since it's all a bunch of woo (as are most chiros...). Maybe you could read some criticism of why paleo makes no sense (you will find enough when you google "paleo makes no sense" or similar, on actual science websites).

If you still want to do it, maybe you could ask him what he actually means since the definition varies greatly. It mostly does include going gluten-free, eating no beans and pulses, no fruit. So yeah, that sounds horrible.

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 Post subject: Re: paleo vegan resources
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:23 am 
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I'm going to agree with ViB, Paleo has a lot of unscientific claims that things like beans/pulses, grains, etc cause inflammation. Overall, the paleo diet is very unscientific and I'm convinced the purpose is to get people to eat more meat. Omnivores often see improvements because they cut out their dairy and a lot of refined foods plus they can somehow still eat bacon.

Although Dr. Weil is on the side of woo himself, his anti-inflammatory diet includes both grains and beans
http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/ART02012/an ... atory-diet

And lastly, I trust WebMD and they have a good run down of an anti inflammatory diet:
http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/anti- ... lth?page=2

Overall, they indicate that the science is thin but an anti inflammatory diet doesn't seem to be a bad thing, if you follow the one shown by WebMD/Dr Weil.

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 Post subject: Re: paleo vegan resources
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:45 am 
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I would add, if you are doing an elimination diet, we have several members who do that for various reasons, and their posts can be really helpful. We have a lot of GF resources as well, and even plans like Eat to Live can be really helpful if you decide to start by eliminating processed grains, for example.

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 Post subject: Re: paleo vegan resources
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:18 am 
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VeganinBerlin wrote:
There is no such thing as THE palep diet, since it's all a bunch of woo (as are most chiros...). Maybe you could read some criticism of why paleo makes no sense (you will find enough when you google "paleo makes no sense" or similar, on actual science websites).

If you still want to do it, maybe you could ask him what he actually means since the definition varies greatly. It mostly does include going gluten-free, eating no beans and pulses, no fruit. So yeah, that sounds horrible.


a little sensitivity, please. I think we can all understand that someone having medical problems might want to try different approaches to getting well.

That being said, I do think torque's suggestion of an elimination diet makes the most sense. If you try a paleo diet (i'll agree with ViB that Paleo isn't well defined at all), you'll be eliminating too many things at once and you may never discover which foods, if any, are causing your problems.

May I ask what your symptoms are that you're trying to fix? Are you having physical pain or gastrointestinal problems?

I do worry that eliminating beans, including soy foods and grains, it's going to be difficult to get protein.

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 Post subject: Re: paleo vegan resources
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:27 am 
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Hearts James Cromwell
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folks,
i should clarify-
technically she didn't suggest going strictly paleo-
but i do have to give up all soy and gluten and most grains and sugar (everything except raw honey and maple syrup). everything else is fine.

quinoa, barley, wild rice, buckwheat are all fine; and my guess is that kamut and maybe spelt could be ok too...

this is to deal with generalized inflammation and what she found was a weak kidney (which a traditional MD would not necessarily find)


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 Post subject: Re: paleo vegan resources
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:31 am 
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The popular paleo plans tend to include a vegetarian option that includes beans. One example is the vegetarian Whole30. I am squarely on the side of "paleo is total woo" but there are certainly options out there if you really want to do it. I also would never go to a chiropractor to treat actual illness or for nutrition information.

Eat to Live 6 week plan is basically vegan paleo minus the added fat. I'd imagine you could tweak the fat between those two extremes based on whether or not you are trying to keep your calories up/maintain weight.


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 Post subject: Re: paleo vegan resources
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:42 am 
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just fyi, barley and spelt both have gluten. if you have kidney issues, the best thing you can do is drink lots of water, but if your kidney issues aren't showing up on blood work, do you know what the chiropractor is basing that on?

I'd recommend seeing a dietitian for food issues. They will know about what types of diets can be good for treating various illnesses.

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 Post subject: Re: paleo vegan resources
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:25 pm 
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ijustdiedinside wrote:
just fyi, barley and spelt both have gluten. if you have kidney issues, the best thing you can do is drink lots of water, but if your kidney issues aren't showing up on blood work, do you know what the chiropractor is basing that on?


I'm curious about this too. I don't know of any methods that a chiropractor has in their toolkit that could be used to diagnose kidney disease. And as someone with kidney disease myself, if you really do have a kidney problem, I would highly recommend seeing a nephrologist, and as ijustdiedinside suggested, a dietician. Paleo diets tend to be protein heavy, and if your kidneys aren't working properly, to much protein can be a serious burden on them.

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 Post subject: Re: paleo vegan resources
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:27 pm 
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Actually, most versions of paleo are not high-protein - they're typically high-vegetable, high-fat, and low-carb; and focus on avoiding processed foods, grains and seed oils. With that in mind, it becomes much easier to veganize it.

After a couple of years of experimentation, I've cobbled together my paleo-ish* vegan diet by taking info from the major paleo players and finding what my body responds to. In addition to my DC, I found basic blood tests helpful too - hscrp and calcium scores can provide insight when dealing with inflammation.

I eliminated soy at first, but found as long as I make the milk, tofu or whatever from scratch using non-gmo, organic beans - I can eat it with no problems. same with all the beans I've tried so far - garbanzo, lima, black, kidney, pinto and lentil. I can also eat homemade seitan and tofu-seitan blends as long as I use non-gmo, organic vwg... this was after a year of elimination/reintroduction and focused gut healing... your mileage may vary

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 Post subject: Re: paleo vegan resources
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:51 pm 
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An "integrative" doctor put me on an "alkaline" diet when I was going through lots of testing and it was supposed to help with my inflammation and my weak liver function (also something that a traditional doctor would not find through testing, apparently). Was in the visual blood analysis thing where you could see it on a screen?

For me the diet had to be 80% certain fruit and veg and grains - brown rice was one of the only ones I could eat a lot of. The other 20% was protein options, and certain other items. Some fruit and veg were completely off limits (mushrooms.... It was a sad time).

For me, the diet caused me to lose some weight and generally be extremely sad and depressed. It did not help my pain or inflammation levels at all. It certainly didn't help my apparent weak liver function.

If people want to give up gluten and soy for this sort of thing, I'm down, but I'm very wary of practitioners that push removing grains as a whole. Since it's not being presented as a true elimination diet, I'd be wary going this route.

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 Post subject: Re: paleo vegan resources
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:00 pm 
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lepelaar wrote:
I'm curious about this too. I don't know of any methods that a chiropractor has in their toolkit that could be used to diagnose kidney disease. And as someone with kidney disease myself, if you really do have a kidney problem, I would highly recommend seeing a nephrologist, and as ijustdiedinside suggested, a dietician.


Seconded. As someone who looked for answers for years outside of traditional (or, you know, actual) medicine, please don't waste your time. Get a second and third opinion from licensed MDs.


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 Post subject: Re: paleo vegan resources
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:32 pm 
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I have also been to several quacks when I was struggling to feel human again after losing all my reproductive parts and going through surgical menopause at the age of 33 in 2005. I went to a naturopathic doctor who put me on an anticandida diet for chronic yeast infections. I could not have gluten, wheat, soy, yeast, dairy (I was an omni at that time), any processed food, no vinegars, no rice, no fruits (very few low glycemic exceptions), no nightshade vegetables, no nuts with skins (like almonds), no sugar. I was allowed to eat most fresh vegetables, fresh meat, a few nuts/seeds, pseudograins like buckwheat groats or quinoa. I was absolutely miserable on that diet, no energy to speak of, and it did nothing for my chronic yeast infections and all my other symptoms. I had been a low normal weight when I started and lost a ton of weight to very underweight. After six months of that hell I gave up and ended up gaining twice the weight I lost because I was so ravenous. Then proceeded to starve myself and battled the next eight years of anorexia nervosa and total paranoia about my food.

In 2012 (while still very underweight) I was running a lot and injured myself a few times. Someone recommended a chiropractor. I was really weary of those since I also have severe osteoporosis (from losing my ovaries and other stuff) but I went to one. I made him swear up and down he would not crack my back or do anything crazy. He started with using a roller and safe instruments on me. He kept trying to push me to use fish oil but I was adamant that I was (and am) an ethical vegan and was not interested. One day he was holding me in some position and wham he cracked my back without warning me. The pain was so intense it took my breath away and I screamed. I must have really scared him because he ran off and a nurse came to help me. All I wanted at that point was to get the hell out of there which I did. It hurt to breath or move for two weeks. Thankfully I did not have a fracture but it scared me because he could have really damaged me. I should have sued that idiot. I called him and canceled all my appointments and really let him have it. I will NEVER go back to "alternative" practitioners again who do not at least have an MD and clean background (this guy had been sued before...I should have known). I also spent an arm and a leg for useless supplements and so called xrays that were a waste of time. The supplements made me sick. All I really needed was an hrt my body could absorb and once I found that my body began to function somewhat normally again and the yeast infections went away.

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 Post subject: Re: paleo vegan resources
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:01 pm 
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Well, that all sounds frightening! Glad to hear you're back in good health. I think I would respond the same way ("I should have known!"), but it sure does suck that we can't just trust the people who claim to be authorities who can help us.

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