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 Post subject: A funny "babies" question
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:37 pm 
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Huffs Nooch

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I'm not a parent, nor do I plan on having children any time soon. However I just recently started seeing a vegetarian that does want a child of his own someday. It got me thinking because for one, I haven't had a monthly cycle without my birth control treatment since I had an abortion seven years ago, and two I'm a vegan in a PhD program with travel plans... I probably won't be able to have my own child, so if I cannot breast feed what to do? I know that studies have been done that show that breastfeeding is a very important aspect of development in babies. I'm also opposed to formulas because of the additives and the animal sources. Is there in fact a complete vegan alternative to breast milk that is free of the hazards that regular cow-derived formulas would have? I'd like to at least have a come back for anyone that asks what exactly I plan to do if I ever adopt or have a surrogate child.


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 Post subject: Re: A funny "babies" question
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:03 pm 
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WRETCHED
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There is a playground section for everything surrounding kids but as for studies, they actually don't show breast feeding is better than formula.

I also know there are things such as donated milk that can be used but perhaps there are soy formulas that can be used or you adopt an older child. I mean, babies are pretty boring and seem way too much work if you ask me. I thought about adopting myself but personally couldn't see myself adopting a child under the age of 2.

But even if the only formula available wasn't vegan and you absolutely want a baby, and donated milk isn't an option, milk is really only used for such a short time in life but the health of a child is more important than trying to maintain vegan purity.

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 Post subject: Re: A funny "babies" question
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:10 pm 
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Huffs Nooch

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I was afraid to post there because it's a hypothetical, but thank you. I've read that nutritionally, the formulas are no worse than breastmilk, but the actual act of breastfeeding is critical. However I'm also aware there are ways around that. I did not know about donated milk! That answers that.
I'm on the fence about babies. They just seem like a load of work that I'm currently in no mood for taking on, although I like them and have some weird maternal drive unfortunately. I just don't intend to ever have my own child...I'd just be handing someone else my family history of depression, cancer, and infertility.
The thing that got me thinking about surrogacy versus adoption or fostering is that this particular guy really sees himself wanting just one child of his own eventually, and possibly far out. Oddly almost every man I've touched on the subject of children with says this. Lol


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 Post subject: Re: A funny "babies" question
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:18 pm 
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***LIES!!!***
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The actual act of nursing is not "critical." (By the way, "breastfeeding" refers to both at-breast eating and eating breastmilk even if in a bottle/tube. There are some benefits to both, but plenty of children have neither and have no issue developing typically.) Donated milk exists although it might not be possible to get enough to fully feed an infant. You can also induce lactation even if you don't give birth, but not everyone can get a full supply that way. I supplement my breastmilk with soy formula, which my children have thrived on. No formula is totally vegan because of the source of the Vitamin D, but this is not an area where purity is a useful goal. The most important thing is to feed the baby. If my baby needed cows milk formula, I would give it to her.


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 Post subject: Re: A funny "babies" question
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:32 pm 
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If breastfeeding is "critical" there are a whole lot of people in this world who shouldn't have made it out of infancy.

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 Post subject: Re: A funny "babies" question
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:39 pm 
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***LIES!!!***
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^indeed


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 Post subject: Re: A funny "babies" question
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:12 am 
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Hoards Peppermint Jo-Jos

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So to answer your specific question, there is soy formula which is vegan.

But to your larger question of addressing things when people ask you what to do, the best attitude you can have, and therefore the best answer you can give, is that you will make a decision based on what works for you and that particular child. Babies are not dolls. You don't get to make all of the decisions. Babies sometimes have allergies, sensitivities, and dislikes that make our original plans moot. Babies sometimes have medical problems or developmental delays which require an adjustment of plans. Before I had kids, I think I would have asked a similar question and thought that my decision would be the final answer, so I get why you posted this. But now that I have had two kids, I realize that this just isn't how it works.

So relax. Take things one decision at a time. And if people press you, tell them that you're going to see how it goes. Because that is the truth. You will have to see how it goes, no matter what plans you make.


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 Post subject: Re: A funny "babies" question
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:09 am 
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Huffs Nooch

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strawberryrock wrote:
If breastfeeding is "critical" there are a whole lot of people in this world who shouldn't have made it out of infancy.

I'm not referring to life or death situations
There is evidence that brain development and perhaps even metabolism and immune system development is impacted. However no one has really been able to get to the root of why that is. It could have something to do with traces of hormones and antibiotics in formulas, or it could just be that the baby feels more comfortable in the position used for nursing, or the feeling of a breast. The issue hasn't received much attention since the few initial studies.
Anyway...I suppose switching between donated milk and formula would be an easy option for someone like myself.


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 Post subject: Re: A funny "babies" question
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:36 am 
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Banned from Vegan Freaks.

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Alyx wrote:
strawberryrock wrote:
If breastfeeding is "critical" there are a whole lot of people in this world who shouldn't have made it out of infancy.

I'm not referring to life or death situations


I think strawberryrock may have thought that since, well, that's usually what critical means. I think lots of parenting type stuff gets massively overblown though.

Quote:
I'd like to at least have a come back for anyone that asks what exactly I plan to do if I ever adopt or have a surrogate child.


Were I in your position I would go with one of:
-We plan on raising the child as a breatharian
-I dunno. Do babies like Lean Cuisine?
-Oh shiitake. Babies eat?
-I'm not worried. I hear Purina is working on Baby Chow.

Which is to say, that is a very specific and personal question with a specific and personal answer that vanishingly few people are reasonably entitled to. And like DEG said, you won't necessarily even have those answers in advance.


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 Post subject: Re: A funny "babies" question
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:25 am 
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Alyx wrote:
strawberryrock wrote:
If breastfeeding is "critical" there are a whole lot of people in this world who shouldn't have made it out of infancy.

I'm not referring to life or death situations
There is evidence that brain development and perhaps even metabolism and immune system development is impacted. However no one has really been able to get to the root of why that is. It could have something to do with traces of hormones and antibiotics in formulas, or it could just be that the baby feels more comfortable in the position used for nursing, or the feeling of a breast. The issue hasn't received much attention since the few initial studies.
Anyway...I suppose switching between donated milk and formula would be an easy option for someone like myself.


So obviously something to remember is early studies are really not something to rely on completely but I was looking at some of the brain development stuff and it is pretty fascinating but I'm not sure what it would mean for the long run. There was a different study I read recently (not related to breastfeeding), that indicated that children who have early gains in life, actually lose those gains later and become equal to their peers. Or in other words, although you can have some early gains in life as a toddler, usually kids even out by the time they reach a certain age, it is just normal part of development. And overall, I wouldn't worry too much about things in general, I'd just take it as it goes. I have 3 lovely cousins and a sister in law who were adopted, as well as other people I've known in general who have adopted or been adopted and there is no noticeable difference from those that weren't.

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 Post subject: Re: A funny "babies" question
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:03 am 
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Flat Chesty McNoBoobs
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^This is a good point.

I'd also highly recommend consulting wth your OB/GYN about your fertility if you're planning to have kids and are over the age of, say, 30. It's good information to have, and you can also ask them about some of the other questions you have, such as about breastfeeding. I'd also recommend looking into the costs and insurance coverage for some of the fertility options you allude to potentially needing. There is little-to-no coverage for more fertility treatments and procedures like donor egg IVF can run $30k - $50k per cycle, and I believe surrogacy gets into the six-figure mark.

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 Post subject: Re: A funny "babies" question
PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:37 pm 
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Huffs Nooch

Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 8:41 pm
Posts: 131
jordanpattern wrote:
^This is a good point.

I'd also highly recommend consulting wth your OB/GYN about your fertility if you're planning to have kids and are over the age of, say, 30. It's good information to have, and you can also ask them about some of the other questions you have, such as about breastfeeding. I'd also recommend looking into the costs and insurance coverage for some of the fertility options you allude to potentially needing. There is little-to-no coverage for more fertility treatments and procedures like donor egg IVF can run $30k - $50k per cycle, and I believe surrogacy gets into the six-figure mark.

Oh jeez, yeah I know it's expensive. I really don't want to carry a child now that I'm older and it has stopped sounding like something magical and great. I don't have a cycle without hormonal birth control, which seems like it would make having a baby pretty difficult. Ectopic pregancies are common in the family, so I'm not too thrilled by the idea of trying at all. I'm just entertaining a hypothetical where I'm married to someone who absolutely insists.


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 Post subject: Re: A funny "babies" question
PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 10:39 pm 
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Nailed to the V

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What do you mean he "absolutely insists"? If this relationship is so new, should you move forward if you aren't able to give him what he wants?


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 Post subject: Re: A funny "babies" question
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:06 am 
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Huffs Nooch

Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 8:41 pm
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I'm not under any pressure right now, but as I mentioned in my first post a lot of men say that they really want one child of their own, from my experience.


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 Post subject: Re: A funny "babies" question
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:16 am 
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I've known many men who didn't want kids or those who wanted to adopt rather or those that really thought it was a collaborative decision, which it should be.

I made it pretty clear with my husband that I didn't want to birth any kids when we got together. We were both on the fencers but I entertained the idea of adopting for a few years and discussed the idea with him. If the 'no birthing' or 'I'm not sure if I want kids' was a deal breaker for him, obviously we would've went our separate ways. Anyway, we decided not to have kids but rather dogs, cats and try to be crappy aunts, uncles and cousins :)

I mean you don't have to be like 'hey should we have kids' but you should be like 'I don't want to be pregnant, I'm not opposed to kids (assuming you aren't), but I'm open to things like surrogacy and adoption, both of which can be very expensive but I just want to let you know where I stand'.

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 Post subject: Re: A funny "babies" question
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:23 pm 
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Not a creepy cheese pocket person
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Donated milk is hard to get. The official stuff is usually saved for sick or at-risk babies, like premies.

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 Post subject: Re: A funny "babies" question
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:29 pm 
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Because Bob Barker Told Me To
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Mods:

Can this post please be moved to the Playground, since that is where it belongs given its theme?

Could the thread also be renamed so it is clear(er) what the subject is?

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