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 Post subject: Re: My partner may have been exposed to HIV.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:26 am 
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Oots.

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 Post subject: Re: My partner may have been exposed to HIV.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:58 pm 
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Thanks for your comments, guys. I showed the responses to my boyfriend and I'm just giving him some time. Yay for being irrational and conditioned to be scared of things you don't need to be scared about. Ugh.


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 Post subject: Re: My partner may have been exposed to HIV.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:30 am 
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No worries! I often come to PPK with questions and worries, simply because the 2-3 people I get advice from, I've learned, totally suck at giving advice.


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 Post subject: Re: My partner may have been exposed to HIV.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:28 am 
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melly wrote:
Thanks for your comments, guys. I showed the responses to my boyfriend and I'm just giving him some time. Yay for being irrational and conditioned to be scared of things you don't need to be scared about. Ugh.

Best of luck to your boy, Melly. Keep us updated on how he is.


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 Post subject: Re: My partner may have been exposed to HIV.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:32 pm 
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tinglepants! wrote:
I'm still stuck on why anyone thinks this kid might have HIV, to begin with. What would make him high-risk? I'm not trying to be callous, but I can't understand any reason to worry your partner might be infected--sounds more like a problem with generalized fear.


I agree.

Don't worry too much. It seems like there is probably no chance at all that he is infected. He got bit but no skin was broken. HIV is not passed in saliva anyway. Ergo, no issue. Makes sense to me. But if you are worried, engage in lower risk sexual activity for now and don't stress on the results until and if you have reason to.

I'm glad your partner has read the responses here and feels a little better. A little reassurance goes a long way.

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 Post subject: Re: My partner may have been exposed to HIV.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:06 pm 
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i was wondering, what if the test was to safeguard the school & your boyfriend against a lawsuit if the kid does turn out to have HIV (to prove to them that your boyfriend was negative at the time) *shrug*

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 Post subject: Re: My partner may have been exposed to HIV.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:16 pm 
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I repeat: your partner is fine.

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 Post subject: Re: My partner may have been exposed to HIV.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:59 am 
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just mumbles wrote:
Oots.


Order of the stick?

Re: the discussion you and suzukibeane were having, that's sort of a thing right now. Responsibility of the + person to disclose v. responsibility of the neg person to ask or use a condom. Since we're talking about transmission as a matter of negligence, it is at a minimum contributorily negligent for someone engaged in random hook-ups to not even ask the person's status, much less to use protection, and I don't think it's unreasonable for a + person to assume that someone who wants to bb is already +. That being said, I always disclose my status, and have turned down bug chasers.

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 Post subject: Re: My partner may have been exposed to HIV.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:25 am 
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bug chasers?


In asking that I feel like a new world is about to be exposed to me.

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 Post subject: Re: My partner may have been exposed to HIV.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:09 pm 
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Fee wrote:
bug chasers?


People who are actively seeking to be infected with HIV. People who are actively seeking to infect other people are called gift givers.


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 Post subject: Re: My partner may have been exposed to HIV.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:15 pm 
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Got that much, but why?

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 Post subject: Re: My partner may have been exposed to HIV.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:20 pm 
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Fee wrote:
Got that much, but why?


There's lots of reasons.

For some, it's the ultimate taboo. It becomes a huge sexual turn on because of that.

For others, they want the support from the HIV+ community...maybe they are lonely. Others want support from the state (section 8, ect).

There's probably other reasons I'm forgetting...


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 Post subject: Re: My partner may have been exposed to HIV.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:20 pm 
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In the context of queer theory, I've heard that the logic goes something like this: HIV is a specter haunting the gay community instilling fear in everyone. If HIV is the worst thing that can happen, why not just get infected and get it over with already so that you can go on living your life without fear.

I'm sure there's more to it than that, of course, but I don't know too much about it.


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 Post subject: Re: My partner may have been exposed to HIV.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:33 pm 
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Squeak wrote:
[...] I don't think it's unreasonable for a + person to assume that someone who wants to bb is already +.

I think that's pretty unreasonable, given that the percentage of the population engaging in unprotected sex dwarfs the HIV positive population--obviously, lots of people who aren't HIV positive are having unprotected sex at any given time, and we have no grounds for believing they're part of a much smaller subset.

The possibility of reinfection more or less moots this argument in any case.

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 Post subject: Re: My partner may have been exposed to HIV.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:21 pm 
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just mumbles wrote:
Squeak wrote:
[...] I don't think it's unreasonable for a + person to assume that someone who wants to bb is already +.

I think that's pretty unreasonable, given that the percentage of the population engaging in unprotected sex dwarfs the HIV positive population--obviously, lots of people who aren't HIV positive are having unprotected sex at any given time, and we have no grounds for believing they're part of a much smaller subset.

The possibility of reinfection more or less moots this argument in any case.



In that case, let me rephrase that - I don't think it's unreasonable for a + person to assume that someone who wants to bb is already +, or at least willing to accept the risk of transmission, and I do think it would be unreasonable to bb with random strangers assuming that everyone who is + will know about it and say something.

Re: reinfection - I'm unaware of this occurring in any individual practicing treatment adherence, and it occurring only rarely in treatment naive or poorly adherent individuals.

ETA: Adah has the right of it with bug chasers. I didn't realize it existed anymore until a couple of people hit me up with profiles stating "neg here looking for poz loads." On a slightly more understandable level, a friend of mine, who has more + than - friends, and doesn't see a huge change in quality of life, was considering intentionally getting infected so he could again bareback with a couple that he's known for years.

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 Post subject: Re: My partner may have been exposed to HIV.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:50 pm 
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Squeak wrote:
In that case, let me rephrase that - I don't think it's unreasonable for a + person to assume that someone who wants to bb is already +, or at least willing to accept the risk of transmission, and I do think it would be unreasonable to bb with random strangers assuming that everyone who is + will know about it and say something.

What is the risk of transmission you can reasonably infer someone accepts in that situation, given that they have no knowledge of their partner's status? It is not reasonable, for example, to assume that someone who accepts a 1/10,000 chance will also accept a 1/1,000 chance. The problem is that if you're positive, you know the risk of transmission is higher than the one you're assuming they accept.

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Re: reinfection - I'm unaware of this occurring in any individual practicing treatment adherence, and it occurring only rarely in treatment naive or poorly adherent individuals.

How can you know that your partner adheres to treatment if you don't even know whether they're HIV positive?

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 Post subject: Re: My partner may have been exposed to HIV.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:13 pm 
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just mumbles wrote:
The problem is that if you're positive, you know the risk of transmission is higher than the one you're assuming they accept.


Do I? Because I tell all of my partners, and there are very few who opt to use a condom with me. Whether they would ask my status, or use a condom even without me telling isn't something I have any knowledge of. I suppose I can start asking.

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Re: reinfection - I'm unaware of this occurring in any individual practicing treatment adherence, and it occurring only rarely in treatment naive or poorly adherent individuals.
How can you know that your partner adheres to treatment if you don't even know whether they're HIV positive?


In order to be reinfected, you'd need to be infected first.

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 Post subject: Re: My partner may have been exposed to HIV.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:21 pm 
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Squeak wrote:
Do I? Because I tell all of my partners, and there are very few who opt to use a condom with me.

That was the hypothetical you, but yes, you know the risk is higher. What you don't know is how that will affect your partner's decisions.

Quote:
In order to be reinfected, you'd need to be infected first.

Right. But if you're HIV positive, and you don't know whether your partner is HIV positive or not, you're certainly not going to know anything about the treatment they're receiving.

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 Post subject: Re: My partner may have been exposed to HIV.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:22 pm 
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Squeak wrote:
just mumbles wrote:
The problem is that if you're positive, you know the risk of transmission is higher than the one you're assuming they accept.


Do I? Because I tell all of my partners, and there are very few who opt to use a condom with me.

I find that surprising and odd. I'm also wondering if you have an ethical obligation to use a condom regardless. Yes, HIV isn't a death sentence anymore. But it's not convenient or pleasant to have either, especially if someone doesn't have access to good healthcare. Why take the risk of passing it on?


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 Post subject: Re: My partner may have been exposed to HIV.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:54 pm 
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Adah wrote:
Squeak wrote:
just mumbles wrote:
The problem is that if you're positive, you know the risk of transmission is higher than the one you're assuming they accept.


Do I? Because I tell all of my partners, and there are very few who opt to use a condom with me.

I find that surprising and odd. I'm also wondering if you have an ethical obligation to use a condom regardless. Yes, HIV isn't a death sentence anymore. But it's not convenient or pleasant to have either, especially if someone doesn't have access to good healthcare. Why take the risk of passing it on?


Ryan White and ADAP take pretty good care of me, and I have trouble imagining someone I would have sex with who wouldn't have access to those. That being said, I'm really not worried about passing it on. My viral load is undetectable and I'm a bottom. I don't know what the chances of infection are exactly, but I'm not aware of anyone, even anecdotally, much less in a study, who has ever contracted HIV from topping an undetectable bottom.

mumbles, I'm not aware of any instances of a person who has good treatment adherence becoming reinfected, even if their partner has poor adherence, or is treatment naive.

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 Post subject: Re: My partner may have been exposed to HIV.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:21 pm 
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Squeak wrote:
mumbles, I'm not aware of any instances of a person who has good treatment adherence becoming reinfected, even if their partner has poor adherence, or is treatment naive.

Reinfection is difficult to detect in general, so I'm not sure it's wise to go by lack of documented cases of reinfection for people in your specific circumstances. Research suggests that treatment probably confers a fair amount of resistance, but we're talking about very small sample sizes.

Quote:
Ryan White and ADAP take pretty good care of me, and I have trouble imagining someone I would have sex with who wouldn't have access to those.

I guess economists have a point.

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 Post subject: Re: My partner may have been exposed to HIV.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:46 pm 
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just mumbles wrote:
Reinfection is difficult to detect in general, so I'm not sure it's wise to go by lack of documented cases of reinfection for people in your specific circumstances. Research suggests that treatment probably confers a fair amount of resistance, but we're talking about very small sample sizes.


Okay, but without any sort of documentation, in what way does reinfection make bbing between + folk moot?

Quote:
I guess economists have a point.


Go on.

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 Post subject: Re: My partner may have been exposed to HIV.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:23 pm 
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Squeak wrote:
Okay, but without any sort of documentation, in what way does reinfection make bbing between + folk moot?

I was saying that we shouldn't treat unprotected sex between HIV positive people as risk-free. The risk of reinfection is non-zero, except in very limited circumstances, which means that the information is useful in almost all cases.

Quote:
Go on.

It strikes me as a problem that the state, having assumed some of the financial risks of HIV infection, has apparently eroded an incentive to use protection. The rational individual will not account for these costs, which results in a collective failure.

I realize that this was something of an aside, and that you don't consider someone in your position to pose a serious transmission risk, but then the history of my involvement in this thread is a series of reactions to asides.

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 Post subject: Re: My partner may have been exposed to HIV.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:51 pm 
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just mumbles wrote:
I was saying that we shouldn't treat unprotected sex between HIV positive people as risk-free. The risk of reinfection is non-zero, except in very limited circumstances, which means that the information is useful in almost all cases.


Given the state's interest in reducing/preventing barebacking, even among + individuals (other, treatable diseases can still be passed - gonorrhea, chlamydia, etc), I'd say that if there were a non-negligible risk of re-infection, it would be documented, if not well documented, by now.

Quote:
It strikes me as a problem that the state, having assumed some of the financial risks of HIV infection, has apparently eroded an incentive to use protection. The rational individual will not account for these costs, which results in a collective failure. I realize that this was something of an aside, and that you don't consider someone in your position to pose a serious transmission risk, but then the history of my involvement in this thread is a series of reactions to asides.


That's a valid concern, but only for those who are content to remain without actual insurance. Ryan White takes care of my hiv, but if I were to suffer, say, a broken limb or similar, I'd be pretty screwed. Adah's comment referred to those "without good healthcare", and the least anyone I could forseeably sleep with would have would still take care of hiv, even if there was a realistic possibility of me infecting them. There is a larger discussion about meds, and how eliminating HIV as a death sentence has decreased incentive to use protection.

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 Post subject: Re: My partner may have been exposed to HIV.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:06 pm 
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I don't understand. Why would you not take every possible precaution? This just boggles my mind.

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