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 Post subject: Why Am I Always Shocked/Surprised?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:06 pm 
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So I have been reading a few books on nutrition (vegan and cancer prevention). I've also been totally disgusted with the latest crepe Monsanto is being allowed to get away with and its really got me thinking even more about how to stay healthy with good nutrition.

I'm sitting here with co-workers who are talking about how they eat. I sympathize with busy single parents and people who work long hours (I am one of the latter). But I am always shocked at how I can almost see people roll their eyes when I talk about how poor nutrition causes disease. I'm not even going down the "V" road with them. Seriously, I could feel a wall go up as we were talking. It makes me sad. Prepping fresh food might seem daunting, but really, does it take that much more time to throw together a stir fry than it does to wait in line at a fast food joint? Is saving a few bucks today worth selling out your health for tomorrow. I know so many of you have experienced similar conversations.

I'm just always so surprised how little people know about nutrition, healthy foods and what is going on with our food supply (patenting forms of life, weak labeling laws and oversite, giving power to AG giants, etc.) Why aren't more people angry, outraged and willing to fight for our health?

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 Post subject: Re: Why Am I Always Shocked/Surprised?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:55 pm 
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Lots of reasons, but they don't make it any less frustrating and sad.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Am I Always Shocked/Surprised?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:38 pm 
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Not to be an apologist but the thing about buying fresh food is you have a limited time to cook it. If you work crazy hours or can't plan your week because your schedule varies, you might just be tossing money in the trash. The other thing is that cooking is one more chore for many people. They really need collective arrangements with people - you cook, I do your yardwork, she does laundry, he goes shopping...

What I do is cook a ton of food on a day off and live on it for the week.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Am I Always Shocked/Surprised?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:46 pm 
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I think it's good news that nutrition and disease are linked! It means we have power!

What, would you rather disease came from nowhere and was just a giant, unfathomable mystery?

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 Post subject: Re: Why Am I Always Shocked/Surprised?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:59 am 
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FootFace wrote:
I think it's good news that nutrition and disease are linked! It means we have power!

What, would you rather disease came from nowhere and was just a giant, unfathomable mystery?

I agree whole heartedly. It is good news, but it is truly amazing that it is so hard for many people to accept this concept. I also seem to be finding it increasingly difficult to get good quality organic produce at any of the grocery stores even in an urban area.

Let me qualify that. I can buy it from WF, who is selling out to Big AG, I can do CSA, but often times I get large amounts of ingredients I may not like or use or I'll need specific ingredients for recipe testing. I love the farmers' market, but am suspicious of some of the vendors who have perfect looking produce in large varieties week after week. I will not stop doing any of these things, but it should be the norm, not the exception to have organic non-GMO foods at our disposal.

Vantine wrote:
Not to be an apologist but the thing about buying fresh food is you have a limited time to cook it. If you work crazy hours or can't plan your week because your schedule varies, you might just be tossing money in the trash. The other thing is that cooking is one more chore for many people. They really need collective arrangements with people - you cook, I do your yardwork, she does laundry, he goes shopping...

What I do is cook a ton of food on a day off and live on it for the week.

I love the idea of bartering or helping each other out this way. I need to find some people to go in on this!! I think it would be awesome. Cooking for the week is the best way to organize for busy people! There are also so many books out there with quick and easy recipes.

I've just been a little discouraged this week by a lot of things I've been hearing and reading about the state of our nations/childrens health and the power that these huge AG companies and the goverment have and they feel nor remorse about exploiting at our expense. I'm not a super paranoid conspiracy theorist in general, but I do feel like there is far too much corruption in this arena, therefore many people are misinformed about what is truly healthy and good for them. But I know that here on the PPK I am preaching to the (awesome) choir. Thanks for letting me rant. <3

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 Post subject: Re: Why Am I Always Shocked/Surprised?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:17 pm 
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Veg-in-Training wrote:
FootFace wrote:
I think it's good news that nutrition and disease are linked! It means we have power!

What, would you rather disease came from nowhere and was just a giant, unfathomable mystery?

I agree whole heartedly. It is good news, but it is truly amazing that it is so hard for many people to accept this concept. I also seem to be finding it increasingly difficult to get good quality organic produce at any of the grocery stores even in an urban area.

Let me qualify that. I can buy it from WF, who is selling out to Big AG, I can do CSA, but often times I get large amounts of ingredients I may not like or use or I'll need specific ingredients for recipe testing. I love the farmers' market, but am suspicious of some of the vendors who have perfect looking produce in large varieties week after week. I will not stop doing any of these things, but it should be the norm, not the exception to have organic non-GMO foods at our disposal.


I can speak of the farmers that I deal with. Part of my job is not only run farmers markets but to also visit the farms and inspect what the farmers are growing, making sure that they are bringing to market what they are growing. In California at every farmers market the farmer MUST have their agriculture certificate with them every week and it should be on display (not sure if this is true in other states). As a customer you can request to see their cert and look at what they are growing. The cert will say what they grow, what months that item is grown, and how many acres they are growing of that item. Of course there are some variations, for instance we had a really wet and cold summer last year so some things didn't pop up until later than normal, but it gives you an idea overall of what the farmer should be selling. Also, you would be surprised at how much one can grow on 10 acres. I have one farmer (my favorite) Who had 10 acres last year but always had the best looking kale around, I have been to their farm a few times and because of their cool climate the kale stays fresher longer after picking than places where it is much warmer.

All that being said there are definitely farmers who have shady practices and buy from wholesalers to keep their booths looking good, which is awful. This is something we are trying to address. Honestly, talking to your farmers and finding the smaller farmers and usually organic farmers are the ones that tend to be a little more honest. I don't have anything against conventional growers, it just so happens that a lot of them tend to be old school and a lot of things used to be allowed that are better enforced now. It also helps greatly when the person you are buying from is a person who actually works on the farm or is the farm owner, not just a farmers' market seller.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Am I Always Shocked/Surprised?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:26 pm 
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Thanks littlebear. I don't think we have those regs here, but I am getting to know a few of the farmers that I really do trust. I buy most of my stuff from them, but sometimes I need things they don't have. That is when it gets frustrating. I need to quit whining and be so grateful we have the choices we do! Because I really do feel fortunate for all I have. We are still trying to figure out how to get more yeild out of our garden too. It is such a learning process. It's very exciting when we get to pick our lunch out of our garden!

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 Post subject: Re: Why Am I Always Shocked/Surprised?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:07 pm 
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Veg-in-Training wrote:
Prepping fresh food might seem daunting, but really, does it take that much more time to throw together a stir fry than it does to wait in line at a fast food joint?

I wonder this when ever I pass by a fast food joint around lunch time or when it looks like everyone must have just gotten off of work or school at once and there is a huge line of cars wrapped around the place. People can't actually be saving any time by sitting in their cars in those sorts of lines.
Vantine wrote:
thing about buying fresh food is you have a limited time to cook it. If you work crazy hours or can't plan your week because your schedule varies, you might just be tossing money in the trash. The other thing is that cooking is one more chore for many people.

Ya, but some fresh produce does last a really long time: potatoes, onions, garlic, winter squash, cabbage, turnips. Plus there are frozen veggies, and canned beens and canned tomatoes products.
I think it has more to do with lack of know how than lack of time. There are quick and easy recipes, and you can do laundry, pay bills, help kids with homework, etc. while food simmers or bakes.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Am I Always Shocked/Surprised?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:13 am 
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Although some people may have some kind of excuse for eating the way they do - no time, no cooking knowledge, etc. - there are also many people who are actively opposed to anything that looks vaguely healthy, never mind vegan or even vegetarian.

At my job, we order food a few times per month, all paid for by management. The caveat is that it has to come from the cafeteria downstairs. The young lady in charge of ordering always gets us a nice assortment of things (I'm her boss, so she always gets me a vegan something). There will be salad, pizza, cooked veggies, mushrooms, meaty stuff...You would not believe, or maybe you would, how many people turn up their nose at the healthier fare saying "That is healthy!" and move on to the pepperoni pizza.

We had an event to promote environmentalism, which was also catered, and people did not want to go because, and I quote, "They are going to have ORGANIC food only!".

I feel there is some kind of presumed coolness associated with eating junk, where eating healthy=not cool, boring, obsessed.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Am I Always Shocked/Surprised?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:25 am 
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As a former starving single parent, I WISH I had known then what I know now about food an nutrition. If someone had taught me how to cook beans and rice, it would have helped a lot. I think that food programs (like WIC) which we would have starved without, should have a better nutrition education program.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Am I Always Shocked/Surprised?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:32 am 
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Karma007 wrote:
As a former starving single parent, I WISH I had known then what I know now about food an nutrition. If someone had taught me how to cook beans and rice, it would have helped a lot. I think that food programs (like WIC) which we would have starved without, should have a better nutrition education program.

I totally agree! My organization teaches classes to WIC parents, and low income parents. I have taught some of the classes, now my friend Mario who is a professional chef is teaching some classes, it is really awesome!


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 Post subject: Re: Why Am I Always Shocked/Surprised?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:43 am 
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We cook with all the fresh food at the beginning of the week so it doesn't go bad, freeze leftovers. Frozen veggies aren't that bad either. I think for awhile I was stuck in a rut-I was tired from the crepe I was eating so I was too tired to cook and prep good food. Once I got out of the rut I realized how important it was to be healthy. With that said, I have friends and family say "you look awesome, what are you doing?" and if I mention what I eat they think I am insane. My grocery bill has gone down at least 25% too.
I got real angry at the family on food inc. that had the father with type 2 diabetes and they continued to eat fast food. If they stopped that he could probably get off his meds and save more money. They turn their nose up at produce but somehow have money to buy soda at the drive thru. I have a child with type 1 (not lifestyle related) but with some of the other parents I've met they continue to feed their children crepe when they are at higher risk for cardiovascular disease, they whine about fat spikes and staying up all night chasing numbers. Duh-stop feeding them shiitake! Not saying if you do xzy with healthy food you will get better numbers all the time but you will more often in a growing child.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Am I Always Shocked/Surprised?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:06 pm 
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This reminds me of a conversation my brother and I were having over Christmas, talking about people getting sick and how diet affects it, and how shocking it is when someone who eats really healthily gets sick, and he said, "I won't be surprised when I get sick. I know I eat like shiitake." And yet he always bisques about how he's fat, doesn't feel well, etc.

Then there's my sister-in-law, who despite loving everything I've ever made for her and constantly asking for recipes, could never go vegetarian because "All I'd eat is carbs." People are just so frustrating sometimes, and I get sick of hearing about it, because I just want to shake them and tell them to change things if they aren't happy, yet they never listen.

And I once read that people were more likely to change their significant other than they were to change their diet(or something to that effect), and it really made me sad to think that people weigh their diet as the most important thing in their life.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Am I Always Shocked/Surprised?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:10 pm 
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Angelina wrote:
I feel there is some kind of presumed coolness associated with eating junk, where eating healthy=not cool, boring, obsessed.


Yes, and it's the most absurd attitude in the world. If you eat the same garbage everyone else is eating, you're a rebel with a wild streak. If you eat what a small subset of the population eats, you're conformist loser.

Meat-eaters getting off on their presumed transgressive habits are ridiculous.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Am I Always Shocked/Surprised?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:43 pm 
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gaia13 wrote:
This reminds me of a conversation my brother and I were having over Christmas, talking about people getting sick and how diet affects it, and how shocking it is when someone who eats really healthily gets sick, and he said, "I won't be surprised when I get sick. I know I eat like shiitake." And yet he always bisques about how he's fat, doesn't feel well, etc.

Then there's my sister-in-law, who despite loving everything I've ever made for her and constantly asking for recipes, could never go vegetarian because "All I'd eat is carbs." People are just so frustrating sometimes, and I get sick of hearing about it, because I just want to shake them and tell them to change things if they aren't happy, yet they never listen.

And I once read that people were more likely to change their significant other than they were to change their diet(or something to that effect), and it really made me sad to think that people weigh their diet as the most important thing in their life.


A friend of mine was saying once how people crave the familiar, even when it's bad for us. (it wasn't in regards to food but is just as relevant there.)

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 Post subject: Re: Why Am I Always Shocked/Surprised?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:46 pm 
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gaia13 wrote:
This reminds me of a conversation my brother and I were having over Christmas, talking about people getting sick and how diet affects it, and how shocking it is when someone who eats really healthily gets sick, and he said, "I won't be surprised when I get sick. I know I eat like shiitake." And yet he always bisques about how he's fat, doesn't feel well, etc.

This kills me! People now expect to get heart attacks and strokes rather than make any sort of change. Nothing is written in stone in terms of your health. People need to fight for themselves! Aren't their lives worth that much?


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 Post subject: Re: Why Am I Always Shocked/Surprised?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:24 pm 
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I know. Some of the people I work with tease me all the time (and I am truly not the healthiest eater though working to change my bad habits even further) about my no-meat "weird" food. One of them I can actually hear breathing heavily from across the room and he has a pretty regular cough. I truly fear he has congestive heart failure and it makes me sad.

I love this quote ‎"I don't understand why asking people to eat a well-balanced vegetarian diet is considered drastic, while it is medically conservative to cut people open." ~ Dean Ornish

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 Post subject: Re: Why Am I Always Shocked/Surprised?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:10 pm 
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Dean Ornish wrote:
I don't understand why asking people to eat a well-balanced vegetarian diet is considered drastic, while it is medically conservative to cut people open.


Shut up, you freak.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Am I Always Shocked/Surprised?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:57 pm 
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Karma007 wrote:
As a former starving single parent, I WISH I had known then what I know now about food an nutrition. If someone had taught me how to cook beans and rice, it would have helped a lot. I think that food programs (like WIC) which we would have starved without, should have a better nutrition education program.

I love the concept of WIC, but the food women are actually allowed to buy on it drives me crazy. I'm a cashier and see a lot of (California) WIC vouchers; the vast majority of them are for some combination of the following: a gallon or two of milk, a dozen eggs, beans OR peanut butter (never both), a whole grain (almost always bread), and cereal. They get tons of vouchers for milk and eggs, and then they get a couple of measly $6 or $10 checks for fruits and vegetables. If you're buying fresh produce, that amount of money doesn't go very far. It should be the other way around. Lots of people use multiple vouchers at once, so they leave the store with like 6 gallons of milk at a time. Maybe I've just been vegan too long, but I can't even imagine how they go through that much milk that fast.

I just imagine kids subsisting on nothing but cereal (and milk!) and peanut butter sandwiches because that's all that's covered by WIC. I guess that's better than frozen crepe dinners and whatever else is cheap, but still.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Am I Always Shocked/Surprised?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:18 am 
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Veg-in-Training wrote:
Prepping fresh food might seem daunting, but really, does it take that much more time to throw together a stir fry than it does to wait in line at a fast food joint?


I'd say, yes, it really does take more time. You'd have to have already shopped for those fresh ingredients, which took previous time. Then you have to peel and chop all that. That takes too much time...so maybe you buy a bag of frozen mixed veggies, which maybe costs you a buck, a buck and a half. But what do you do with that? Maybe you don't have special sauces or spices at home, or have the know-how on how to prepare those in a way that's tasty.

Then...you have to stand and stir the stir-fry as it cooks. Maybe you don't want to stand anymore because you've been standing for 10 hours.

Then...you have to wash those dishes that you used to cook and everyone ate on!

There really is a big difference.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Am I Always Shocked/Surprised?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:04 pm 
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ashley wrote:
Karma007 wrote:
As a former starving single parent, I WISH I had known then what I know now about food an nutrition. If someone had taught me how to cook beans and rice, it would have helped a lot. I think that food programs (like WIC) which we would have starved without, should have a better nutrition education program.

I love the concept of WIC, but the food women are actually allowed to buy on it drives me crazy. I'm a cashier and see a lot of (California) WIC vouchers; the vast majority of them are for some combination of the following: a gallon or two of milk, a dozen eggs, beans OR peanut butter (never both), a whole grain (almost always bread), and cereal. They get tons of vouchers for milk and eggs, and then they get a couple of measly $6 or $10 checks for fruits and vegetables. If you're buying fresh produce, that amount of money doesn't go very far. It should be the other way around. Lots of people use multiple vouchers at once, so they leave the store with like 6 gallons of milk at a time. Maybe I've just been vegan too long, but I can't even imagine how they go through that much milk that fast.

I just imagine kids subsisting on nothing but cereal (and milk!) and peanut butter sandwiches because that's all that's covered by WIC. I guess that's better than frozen crepe dinners and whatever else is cheap, but still.

you get creative with what they give you. I could barely handle cheese after being on WIC for a few years. I still can't really eat peanut butter that much and I don't like cereal now. A lot of people on WIC get it all at once because it can be hard to get transportation to the store so they redeem them in one day. My neighbors and I would exchange things we needed, like if I was running low on eggs (this is way before I went vegan) I'd exchange one of my gallons of milk for some since we were all on WIC on the Navy base. We only got produce vouchers for farmers markets in WA and they only had that for the summer. I'm so glad for WIC but I'm very happy we don't need it anymore. Oddly enough we were more of a community where we lived compared to now-that's the only thing I miss.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Am I Always Shocked/Surprised?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:38 pm 
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FootFace wrote:
Dean Ornish wrote:
I don't understand why asking people to eat a well-balanced vegetarian diet is considered drastic, while it is medically conservative to cut people open.


Shut up, you freak.

Take your pinkovegan propaganda elsewhere, lady!


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 Post subject: Re: Why Am I Always Shocked/Surprised?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:02 pm 
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Anyone else remember the thread on the old boards that was related to this? I'm afraid I don't remember the screen name of the poster, but it was a young lady in college complaining about her friends always going for fast food, using the excuse that they didn't have the money to eat healthy, and the gist of the response was "To get the healthiest, you have to buy organic fresh produce, which a lot of people living in poverty can't access/afford. GAWD."

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 Post subject: Re: Why Am I Always Shocked/Surprised?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:31 pm 
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graffitipassion wrote:
Veg-in-Training wrote:
Prepping fresh food might seem daunting, but really, does it take that much more time to throw together a stir fry than it does to wait in line at a fast food joint?


I'd say, yes, it really does take more time. You'd have to have already shopped for those fresh ingredients, which took previous time. Then you have to peel and chop all that. That takes too much time...so maybe you buy a bag of frozen mixed veggies, which maybe costs you a buck, a buck and a half. But what do you do with that? Maybe you don't have special sauces or spices at home, or have the know-how on how to prepare those in a way that's tasty.

Then...you have to stand and stir the stir-fry as it cooks. Maybe you don't want to stand anymore because you've been standing for 10 hours.

Then...you have to wash those dishes that you used to cook and everyone ate on!

There really is a big difference.


To this I would have to say, yes I agree that it does take a little extra time to plan and clean. But I also have to say that if people have a hard time standing while they throw together a quick healthy stir fry, they may already be feeling the effects of poor diet (fatigue, weakness). I personally work 12 hour shifts and many nights I still have energy and time to throw together a quick, healthy meal and maybe even throw a load of laundry. Part of this is planning to wash and prep some things before I start my work week like simple soups, stews and maybe just plain brown rice or quinoa to have in the fridge to throw together a quick meal.

You can saute those frozen veggies with a little diced tempeh or tofu or beans with a simple seasoning of seasoned salt, pepper, garlic and onion powder. Why not throw a can of tomatoes in? Dinner! 10 minutes. No fancy ingredients. Need some carbs? Simmer up a small sized whole grain pasta while your veggies are cooking (it will cook up very quickly). Two pots to clean. I do really sympathize with busy folks, because I am one, but there are ways to eat healthy that aren't so time intensive. Granted if you want gourmet fare, it's going to take a lot more time. But truly, fast food isn't gourmet anyway, so keep it simple.

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