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 Post subject: Re: Weight loss peeps - where you at?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:54 pm 
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Mispronounces Daiya

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You're right, Ariann. I should have clarified that because requirements will differ drastically per person. The 1800 is for the average woman. It was referenced in a source I read; I'll see if I can find it to get back to the WHO directly. I can't remember if it was an article or an ebook though... Anyway, when I read that it definitely struck me because all my life the mantra has been 1200 - 1500 kcal to lose weight.


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 Post subject: Re: Weight loss peeps - where you at?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:57 pm 
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Yeah I'd like to see a source, because that seems like kind of a bs number.


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 Post subject: Re: Weight loss peeps - where you at?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:13 am 
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I think I'm ready to call bs on the calculators in general, at least for me. They all told me to eat 1650-1700 to maintain my weight, which seemed to work for a while, but then I got sick of it and stopped counting and started eating more. I've since maintained the same weight AND gotten my period back after at least a year (big relief).

So I can only conclude that I was basically starving myself and didn't realize it.


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 Post subject: Re: Weight loss peeps - where you at?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:33 am 
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http://gokaleo.com/2013/01/25/adrenal-f ... tarvation/

This is where I read it. I haven't run across it in the WHO site for myself. There's lots of info on starvation and poverty but I haven't seen (in an admittedly cursory search) the 1800 itself.

http://www.fao.org/docrep/MEETING/004/M ... 995E00.HTM

http://www.fao.org/docrep/007/y5686e/y5 ... #TopOfPage

I did find this for minimum requirements. Not the same thing, but the first shows 2200 - 2300 for a 120 pound woman for maintenance and basic activity, and "[falling below runs] a nutritional risk due to a probable calorie deficiency." The calc in the second link is a little more detailed and updated so I included it if anyone is interested.
Even if the 1800 should be hogwash for starvation per se (ie even if GoKaleo meant it not as you'll die tomorrow but rather your metabolism and body function will not be supported), my point is that it appears that the minimum calories we are conditioned to believe as acceptable or ideal is lower, sometimes way lower, than what we may actually need.


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 Post subject: Re: Weight loss peeps - where you at?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 6:58 pm 
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It's all insanity!

*susan powter flashback*

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 Post subject: Re: Weight loss peeps - where you at?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:09 pm 
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appifanie wrote:
It's all insanity!

*susan powter flashback*

Nice!

I havent worked out in 4 days. It was a rough week. But I am feeling smaller hips for sure! So theres that.

Im having one of those days where Im starving but nothing is satisfying me. Just made a huge bowl of popcorn with EB, nooch, garlic powder and sea salt. I ate a few pieces and put it down. Now Im craving taco bell but that just isnt happening.

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 Post subject: Re: Weight loss peeps - where you at?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:14 pm 
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emmalv wrote:
http://gokaleo.com/2013/01/25/adrenal-fatigue-as-a-cover-for-starvation/

This is where I read it. I haven't run across it in the WHO site for myself. There's lots of info on starvation and poverty but I haven't seen (in an admittedly cursory search) the 1800 itself.

http://www.fao.org/docrep/MEETING/004/M ... 995E00.HTM

http://www.fao.org/docrep/007/y5686e/y5 ... #TopOfPage

I did find this for minimum requirements. Not the same thing, but the first shows 2200 - 2300 for a 120 pound woman for maintenance and basic activity, and "[falling below runs] a nutritional risk due to a probable calorie deficiency." The calc in the second link is a little more detailed and updated so I included it if anyone is interested.
Even if the 1800 should be hogwash for starvation per se (ie even if GoKaleo meant it not as you'll die tomorrow but rather your metabolism and body function will not be supported), my point is that it appears that the minimum calories we are conditioned to believe as acceptable or ideal is lower, sometimes way lower, than what we may actually need.



The GoKaleo site is a little um, not convincing (the one study that might have been meaningful was a little lacking in that it was on teenagers - all the symptoms they measure of starvation are also symptoms of both normal adolescence and obsessive thinking, and may be unrelated to calorie restriction). I totally feel the Susan Powter reference. :). That woman once had me eating 3000 calories of high sugar crepe a day. Not helpful!

The first FAO link seems to be average needs, rather than minimum needs. If 2200 is an average need for a 120 lb woman, we still don't know what the variance is. My feeling, though, is that you still have to create an energy gap to lose weight, so these are kind of meaningless numbers. So if you eat less or exercise more, the goal is still, basically, to force "starvation." The goal is to not provide your body with all of the fuel it needs, so that it is taking from its own fuel stores.


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 Post subject: Re: Weight loss peeps - where you at?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:20 pm 
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GraciaKai wrote:
appifanie wrote:
It's all insanity!

*susan powter flashback*

Nice!

I havent worked out in 4 days. It was a rough week. But I am feeling smaller hips for sure! So theres that.

Im having one of those days where Im starving but nothing is satisfying me. Just made a huge bowl of popcorn with EB, nooch, garlic powder and sea salt. I ate a few pieces and put it down. Now Im craving taco bell but that just isnt happening.


Stupid popcorn - it's so easy to eat a LOT. I too have really wanted a bean burrito from Taco Bell lately but I'm not going, no way. But man, I want. Maybe I'll just go in, steal a ton of sauce packets, and put them on home made stuff? ;D

Man, I can't even imagine if I ate 2200 cals and lived my normally not too active life.

The crux of my problem?

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Weight loss peeps - where you at?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:30 pm 
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I've read about the 1800 number being starvation from many sources, but all were for men. For women, it's 1200-1500 depending on the person


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 Post subject: Re: Weight loss peeps - where you at?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:23 pm 
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I wonder if the starvation number should be predicated more on weight than gender anyway. Not totally, because of muscle diffs, but still. If the 1800 and 1200/1500 numbers are just the holdover numbers from years ago are they even relevant? In the 60's the average US male weight was 160's and now is 190's, and the average female was 140's and is now 160's.

Anyway, we could pbly endlessly discuss the semantics of averages and minimums and this numbers vs that number and we’ll never figure the specifics out. My original thought to Appifanie upthread was meant to convey to listen to her body as well when considering the TDEE calculations. And that the lowest number, which is the number I view as tempting to go by, might not be the right one because there is info out there suggesting our needs (to avoid adversely affecting metabolic function, not just create an energy deficit) are higher than we've been taught. What the exact numbers are, who knows. If someone figures it out they'll be rich.

Also, I love popcorn - Gracia Kai's concoction is my go-to that I could eat daily, but I've never added the garlic before. Good call on that. And, I know nothing about Susan Powter. Is she the shouty buzz cut woman from back in the day? 3000 kcal of sugar for weight loss seems like the definition of insanity.


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 Post subject: Re: Weight loss peeps - where you at?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:05 pm 
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Yeah, Susan Powter's whole thing was that we've been told to eat too little, which is hindering weight loss, and since our body likes carbs for fuel, we should give it more carbs. That + building up from walking around her block a few times a day = she lost like 150 pounds.


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 Post subject: Re: Weight loss peeps - where you at?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:10 pm 
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And she had a buzz cut and yelled a lot.

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 Post subject: Re: Weight loss peeps - where you at?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:59 pm 
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And she was AWESOME.


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 Post subject: Re: Weight loss peeps - where you at?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:40 pm 
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PEACE AND LOVE!

I like all the different thoughts and whatnot - it's a lot to ponder.

I was going to find a Susan Powter gif, but I have a migraine and a workout to do, so not tonight.

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 Post subject: Re: Weight loss peeps - where you at?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:03 pm 
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Someone on the food tracking site I use posted this the other day:

Quote:
Smoothies are like "pre-digested" food. Smoothies take away the process of chewing and essentially take away the goodness of the fiber you are consuming in the fruits and veggies in your smoothie. Your body needs the fiber that comes with the natural sugars in the fruits and vegetables. Otherwise, they are readily available to be absorbed, causing the dreaded spike, and subsequent crash, in your blood sugar. This just makes you hungrier! You want spinach at breakfast? Make an omelet and put spinach, mushrooms, and tomatoes in it. Are smoothies great for your food logs? Yes. Great for your body? Maybe not.

(Emphasis mine)

Sometimes I just want to repeatedly bang my head against a wall.

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 Post subject: Re: Weight loss peeps - where you at?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:16 pm 
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I think there is a thread somewhere effectively debunking that. I assume its fine to link to a locked thread because there is no risk of a kfischer? viewtopic.php?f=18&t=18459&p=483844&hilit=smoothies+calories#p483844

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 Post subject: Re: Weight loss peeps - where you at?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:31 am 
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I cant stand this while smoothies arent good for you BS. I make a protein smoothie on my workout days around 8am and I am fully satisfied until noon when I eat lunch. I have friends doing some paleo whole 30 programand that book says the same thing.

Personally, Im over trying to "figure" out how to lose weight. Calories is, calories out, stay active, dont binge, eat well, and keep positive. Thats my recipe and Im sticking to it.

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 Post subject: Re: Weight loss peeps - where you at?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:41 am 
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GraciaKai wrote:
I cant stand this while smoothies arent good for you BS. I make a protein smoothie on my workout days around 8am and I am fully satisfied until noon when I eat lunch. I have friends doing some paleo whole 30 programand that book says the same thing.


Remember for awhile they were saying green smoothies weren't good for you? Madness. My morning smoothie is usually 1 cup soy milk, 1/2-1 cup water (to thin them out and make them bigger), 2 tbsp rice protein, 2 tsp powdered psyllium husk, 1-2 bananas, some other kind of fruit. I'm "morning hungry" (I could eat every 2 hours most mornings) but a smoothie usually lasts me 3-4 hours. I love smoothies.

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 Post subject: Re: Weight loss peeps - where you at?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:54 am 
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I need something for before the gym when I go early and can't face or don't have time to sit and eat a proper breakfast first. I make my porridge with some almond butter in and a bit of agave and take that in a thermos to eat after the gym when I get to work. But I'm struggling with what to eat beforehand. I used to just have a banana but that's not cutting it.

This morning I just had a quick smoothie (just frozen mango, yoghurt and soymilk) and I was dizzy on the cross-trainer. Yesterday I had a banana/chocolate protein powder shake and felt ok with that but that protein powder is SO sweet - I don't love it. I need to try it without the banana because that probably didn't help but not sure if I should just make it with soymilk / water instead of adding fruit?

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 Post subject: Re: Weight loss peeps - where you at?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:01 am 
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i have to eat before a workout too. Normally I munch on raw almonds when I'm on the train and that fills me up enough that I won't get sick. And doesn't make me so full that I can't push myself. It's a difficult balance sometimes. After the workout I make a smoothie with frozen mango, pineapple, and banana, coconut milk, water, and vanilla soy protein powder. That keeps my full until lunch. If I get hungry earlier than I snack on Seaweed snacks and drink more water. I always have a huge cup of water at my desk, but most of the time I have to remind myself to drink it.

If you like the way your protein powder taste alone you can just shake it with water or soy milk in one of those shaker things. I can't stand it like that.

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 Post subject: Re: Weight loss peeps - where you at?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:06 am 
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I'm ok with hunger after I've had my porridge. My problem is that I'm not hungry when I first get up and I never have much time in the morning so a banana is enough to stave off the hunger I feel by the time I get to the gym, but doesn't stop me feeling dizzy during my workout.

I do have one of those shaker things so yeah I might try it with water but I still think it will be too sweet. I'm gonna have to figure out something bitter to put in it to knock that shiitake back a bit! haha

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Last edited by baps on Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Weight loss peeps - where you at?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:06 am 
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Yeah if I workout hungry I spend my whole workout thinking "I'm so hungry, I can't possibly continue without food. Food. Food. Food."

I'm totally good with apple juice + nutribiotic rice vanilla protein.

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 Post subject: Re: Weight loss peeps - where you at?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:22 am 
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You could try a handful of nuts pre-workout. Or bake some granola squares to have on hand so you can just grab and go. There are lots of really easy on the go recipes in Brendan Brazier's Thrive Diet. Off the top of my head a few of them are these frozen balls. I think dates, almond or flax seed, coconut, lemon, etc. all blended in a food processor and then you form the mix into balls and freeze them. He suggest having stuff like this ready for taking with you during long workouts or training sessions. Of course he's a pro cyclist and on the bike for 5 hours a day. But still, something like that could be a good fix.

Coconut Date Balls
Vega Recipe Center: http://bit.ly/137zNNY
½ cup pitted and chopped dates
1/3 cup raw cashews, soaked and rinsed
¼ cup raw almonds, soaked and rinsed
½ cup shredded, unsweetened coconut

1. Add the dates, cashews and almonds to the base of a food processor fitted with a chopping blade.
2. Pulse until the dates and nuts have formed a sticky crumb.
3. Add the coconut and pulse to combine.
4. Remove from the food processor and combine mixture into a large ball.
5. Cover and place in the fridge to harden, about 2 hours.
6. off 2 tbsp. worth of dough and roll into balls.
7. Will keep in the fridge for 10-14 days.

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 Post subject: Re: Weight loss peeps - where you at?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:45 am 
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awesome thank you, i'll try making some of those when I go away for work. All I can ever get hold of is crisps and crepe.

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I sure do love pumpkins, Cotton.

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 Post subject: Re: Weight loss peeps - where you at?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:12 am 
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I need to get back into that book. It seemed really far fetched at the time I bought it since I wasn't active. But now I think I'm in a better place and can put some of those recipes to good use. He has homemade sport drink recipes in there too. So for people who don't like eat in the morning those could be really helpful.

Seriously wish I had a Vitamix to do most of these recipes justice though.

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