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 Post subject: Help me find more fat!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:11 am 
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Hearts James Cromwell

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Lovin the look of the new PPK. Not lovin the advice my husband's homeopath gave him today. She says his health is suffering from a lack of fat in his diet and this is why he's gaining weight. I don't get this, but at any rate, she's suggested that he abandon veganism and be simply vegetarian so he can eat yogurt and cheese. He's not in favor of this. I'm certainly not in favor of this, and know we can eat avocado, flax seed, coconut, but what else? And any recipe suggestions that use these things in large-ish quantities?


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 Post subject: Re: Help me find more fat!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:21 am 
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Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
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i dont even know how to respond to this nicely. hes fat because he doesnt eat enough fat? please see an actual nutritionist, not a cray-cray.


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 Post subject: Re: Help me find more fat!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:24 am 
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Hearts James Cromwell

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We actually love this doc and this is the first time she's mentioned our diets. I'll get more info when my husband gets home from work, just got the quick re-cap this morning, but even though we don't necessarily agree with this advice, my husband did seem to think whatever she said makes sense, so I need recipes.


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 Post subject: Re: Help me find more fat!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:25 am 
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Ummm... what?

If he is really looking for more fat (although still, what?) try nuts. Almonds and cashews and walnuts, etc. are great sources of fat, without abandoning veganism.

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 Post subject: Re: Help me find more fat!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:26 am 
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havecompassion wrote:
so I need recipes.


cook with more olive oil. add nuts as snacks. add hemp or flax oil to foods.

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 Post subject: Re: Help me find more fat!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:31 am 
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Is he on a fat-free diet? Low calorie diet? You gain weight because you eat more calories than you burn. Lipids are a necessary part of any diet because some nutrients require them for absorption. If your doctor is trying to make a connection between a fat-free/low fat diet and overeating or poor nutrient absorption, I would get more details.

I am NOT a nutritionist, but before I would start adding things to my diet, I would to know exactly what nutrients I was missing and then plan accordingly.

Having said that, amaranth is a high calorie, high fat, nutrient dense, protein packed grain.


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 Post subject: Re: Help me find more fat!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:33 am 
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It is commonly mentioned that when does not take in enough calories or fat (but is not 'anorexic' per se), the body tends to retain whatever *is* taken in instead of burning it for energy. Thus, the common dieting plateau, etc. I agree with your homeopath for being concerned, but I don't agree with adding animal products. I agree with your ideas and would go further to say to really try to incorporate more raw, unprocessed fats such as coconut oils and young coconut meat, avocados, cold pressed olive oils, raw nuts and seeds, as the body uses them more efficiently. As someone who has done a fair amount of raw detox stretches, you will feel better, AND lose weight when consuming fats and oils this way. Look into some of the Ani Phyo recipes, Natalia Rose, etc. If you want any of them, PM me :)

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 Post subject: Re: Help me find more fat!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:38 am 
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Hearts James Cromwell

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RedBeetsRock-
Yes! This is what she was saying. That his body is not burning what he is eating, because he's not eating enough good fats, and is eating too many carbs (which is true of our entire fam). In my shock, I'd completely forgotten about nuts. Heading to look up Ani Phyo and Natalia Rose now because both names are 100% new to me.

Thanks all!


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 Post subject: Re: Help me find more fat!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:48 am 
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I would definitely seek a second opinion on this matter, whether you love the doc or not. There are some nutritionist folks on the PPK who I'm sure will chime in soon.

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 Post subject: Re: Help me find more fat!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:59 am 
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havecompassion wrote:
RedBeetsRock-
Yes! This is what she was saying. That his body is not burning what he is eating, because he's not eating enough good fats, and is eating too many carbs (which is true of our entire fam). In my shock, I'd completely forgotten about nuts. Heading to look up Ani Phyo and Natalia Rose now because both names are 100% new to me.

Thanks all!

Carbs are perfectly good to eat, focus on whole foods...whole grains like brown rice etc. Best to stay away from processed foods (bad carbs) as many nutrients get stripped from them, and especially packaged foods where they tend to sneak in extra fat, sugar, salt and all kinds of other crepe.
Ultimately, if you take in more calories than you burn, you will gain weight. Does your husband exercise? That would certainly help him start burning calories. I think rocklobster's right, go to a proper nutritionist/dietitian for advice, there are even vegan ones.
http://www.brendadavisrd.com/
http://www.nutrispeak.com/
There is also a RD on the Mcdougall boards (Jeff Novick) whom you can post questions to. http://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewf ... 3e9b396e80


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 Post subject: Re: Help me find more fat!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:00 pm 
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When I was going to WW meetings, they did tell some people to eat more fat if they stopped losing weight. These tended to be people who were just going overboard eating processed fat-free foods and so their diet wasn't getting enough fat (hardly any at all). Easily remedied with avocado, oils, nuts, etc.

I wouldn't take nutritional advice from anyone who immediately says that not being vegan is the way to fix things. I worked with a nutritionist after my gastric bypass surgery who was perfectly happy with me being vegan (actually I wanted to transition from veg* to vegan). She did a lot of research for me (she hadn't even had many vegetarian patients before) and was very supportive. I actually wasn't able to do it then because I had severe issues with the necessary protein shakes, but before making the decision to delay going vegan, she devoted a lot of time and energy to helping me trouble shoot the issues.

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 Post subject: Re: Help me find more fat!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:02 pm 
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I doubt there's any reason to go crazy with fat but I probably eat more fat than a lot of vegans. There's no shortage of vegan fats though with nuts, avocado, peanut butter, seeds and oils.

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 Post subject: Re: Help me find more fat!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:09 pm 
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I've been told before by many different nutritionists or dieticians with different backgrounds and philosophies that indeed, without enough fat in your diet, your body's metabolism isn't humming along as well as it could be. It's not crazy. It's probably true.


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 Post subject: Re: Help me find more fat!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:16 pm 
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Did your husband give her a food record or did she do a 24 hour recall for his diet? How does she know what he eats? It may be that he does need to add more healthy fat to his diet and maybe too great of a portion of his diet is from carbohydrates, but it's pretty well agreed upon that plant based fat sources are the best for you except for maybe fat from fish. I can't really understand from a nutritional standpoint why she would have told him to add yogurt and cheese. If she is JUST concerned about fat then there's no good reason for her to have told him to stop being vegan. I dunno, it sounds like she may have an agenda here...

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 Post subject: Re: Help me find more fat!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:19 pm 
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Hearts James Cromwell

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:07 am
Posts: 51
[/quote]
Carbs are perfectly good to eat, focus on whole foods...whole grains like brown rice etc. Best to stay away from processed foods (bad carbs) as many nutrients get stripped from them, and especially packaged foods where they tend to sneak in extra fat, sugar, salt and all kinds of other crepe.
Ultimately, if you take in more calories than you burn, you will gain weight. Does your husband exercise? That would certainly help him start burning calories. I think rocklobster's right, go to a proper nutritionist/dietitian for advice, there are even vegan ones.
http://www.brendadavisrd.com/
http://www.nutrispeak.com/
There is also a RD on the Mcdougall boards (Jeff Novick) whom you can post questions to. http://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewf ... 3e9b396e80[/quote]

Our diet is heavy in baked goods - not really much processed food - but vctotw and vciycj are certainly used too much in our house. We need more veggies, fewer carbs, less baked treats and I guess maybe more good fats. Thanks for the nutritionist links. I'll check them out.


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 Post subject: Re: Help me find more fat!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:23 pm 
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Hearts James Cromwell

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:07 am
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ijustdiedinside wrote:
Did your husband give her a food record or did she do a 24 hour recall for his diet? How does she know what he eats? It may be that he does need to add more healthy fat to his diet and maybe too great of a portion of his diet is from carbohydrates, but it's pretty well agreed upon that plant based fat sources are the best for you except for maybe fat from fish. I can't really understand from a nutritional standpoint why she would have told him to add yogurt and cheese. If she is JUST concerned about fat then there's no good reason for her to have told him to stop being vegan. I dunno, it sounds like she may have an agenda here...


Not sure how much he told her about his diet. She said he can try to get all of the fat he needs from a vegan diet, but it would be a lot of work and her recommendation was to add some dairy to make it easier and to be sure he's getting enough. I'm confident that neither of us are going to add animal products to our diets, but this is a good wake up call that we do need to work more at getting proper nutrition.


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 Post subject: Re: Help me find more fat!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:31 pm 
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Yeah, honestly, there is no reason for you to go back to dairy. Olive oil has more fat than cheese or yogurt for sure.
I would recommend keeping a food record for three days or so and entering your daily intake into nutritiondata.com to see what percentage of your diet is coming from fat, protein or carbs. It can be a little time consuming, but then you'll know for yourself what is going on. I just don't think it's easier to get fat from dairy products than from veg sources and cheese is much higher in saturated fat than vegetable sources. the increased fat recommendation might not be a bad one, but dairy is totally not necessary.

also, it's hard to imagine a diet that would be too low in fat and causing weight gain. If you think about it most carbohydrate sources that people eat a lot of are also eaten with fat. bread is usually not eaten plain, baked goods have fat, pasta is usually eaten with some fat containing sauce.

I'd either see a dietitian or keep and analyze a food record for myself.

I don't want to sound like a jerk because I'm sure your homeopath is great, but this particular bit of advice just doesn't make a ton of sense to me. I'm not a professional by any means, but when i hear docs telling people to stop being vegan I feel like they need to offer some REALLY good reasons.

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 Post subject: Re: Help me find more fat!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:41 pm 
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Hearts James Cromwell

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:07 am
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ijustdiedinside wrote:
Yeah, honestly, there is no reason for you to go back to dairy. Olive oil has more fat than cheese or yogurt for sure.
I would recommend keeping a food record for three days or so and entering your daily intake into nutritiondata.com to see what percentage of your diet is coming from fat, protein or carbs. It can be a little time consuming, but then you'll know for yourself what is going on. I just don't think it's easier to get fat from dairy products than from veg sources and cheese is much higher in saturated fat than vegetable sources. the increased fat recommendation might not be a bad one, but dairy is totally not necessary.

also, it's hard to imagine a diet that would be too low in fat and causing weight gain. If you think about it most carbohydrate sources that people eat a lot of are also eaten with fat. bread is usually not eaten plain, baked goods have fat, pasta is usually eaten with some fat containing sauce.

I'd either see a dietitian or keep and analyze a food record for myself.

I don't want to sound like a jerk because I'm sure your homeopath is great, but this particular bit of advice just doesn't make a ton of sense to me. I'm not a professional by any means, but when i hear docs telling people to stop being vegan I feel like they need to offer some REALLY good reasons.


No worries...not a jerk...and I am upset too especially because I trust this doc so much and she's helped us in so many ways in the past. Never heard of nutritiondata.com either - love that! I think I'm extra bothered by all of this because we're raising a vegan toddler so any questioning of our diet makes me worry about him even though he eats a better diet than we do, because he's not allowed to sneak four cupcakes in a day (like me!). Really interested in using that website for his diet too though!


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 Post subject: Re: Help me find more fat!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:21 pm 
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Doctors who aren't used to dealing with vegan diets can give some very confused advice sometimes, just because they aren't familiar with the foods and meals. I saw a diabetes specialist recently who suggested a high blood sugar after a meal was because the meal had too many carbs and not enough protein, fiber, or fat. The meal was tofu and vegetables in lots of coconut milk w/ 1/2 cup brown rice. Not many carbs, lots of protein, lots of fat, lots of fiber. She just saw rice and no meat and zeroed in on that.

Your doctor might not know that vegan eat desserts, for instance. Or she might think you're eating just salad for every meal.


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 Post subject: Re: Help me find more fat!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:55 pm 
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havecompassion wrote:
Our diet is heavy in baked goods - not really much processed food - but vctotw and vciycj are certainly used too much in our house. We need more veggies, fewer carbs, less baked treats and I guess maybe more good fats. Thanks for the nutritionist links. I'll check them out.

Ah, those evil baked goods. I would suggest that if your diet is heavy in them, that would definitely contribute to weight gain. I love those books too but sadly they contributed to my own weight gain. Cut them out, focus on eating whole foods, and you will probably see the weight start to come off, will come off even faster if you add in some workouts, even walking for a start.


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 Post subject: Re: Help me find more fat!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:21 pm 
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Olives
Coconut meat and coconut milk
Nuts and seeds


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