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 Post subject: Re: No Poo
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:07 am 
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oh! i hadn't seen this thread. here's one of the other threads for no 'poo. viewtopic.php?f=33&t=18891
(sorry, there are days when i only look for replies to posts i've already posted in, so i don't see new posts.)

i hadn't had a chance to read this whole thread yet, but i'll reply to monidew, since i kinda had the same thing going on. it was sad, cause i loved the concept of using ACV, but it just made the tiny hairs at the top of my head all stick-uppy, and the sebum on my length never really went away.

i ended up still using the shikakai powder in water for my wash, but then i had to switch to a natural conditioner (Aubrey Organics Honeysuckle Rose Moisturizing Conditioner) for the moisturizing. i don't use much, just enough to moisturize the little stick-uppies on the top of my head, and then i brush it while wet with the goody quikstyle comb (it has offset bristles, so it's like brushing with 2 wide toothed combs at once. good for my thick hair.) the wooden comb just would grab on to my hair too much. (maybe it was the sebum? i dunno)

so i guess i do a modified curly girl method but with WAAAAAAAY less conditioner. i'm happy. with the ACV, as soon as my hair grew past my butt, it was near impossible to brush through without ripping, since there were so many knots. i had to keep a little pair of scissors in the shower, and i'd cut the knots out. (not as reasonable for someone with shorter hair, since the cuts would probably be noticeable.) i haven't had to cut any knots out in a while.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:46 pm 
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Bumping this thread because I'm going to try this! I'm just so frustrated with my scalp, I really feel like there's no shampoo that works. I just went through my 'bathroom box' and I have like seven different partially used shampoos, and I buy the expensive shiitake! Such a waste of money! But I can never stick it out with shampoos because the issue is too maddening! My problem is that my head gets crazy itchy at the end of the day. I have to shampoo my hair daily or I feel like I want to stab people. Yesterday I tried just a BS rinse, no vinegar because I feel like that'll be drying to my scalp? It definitely worked in that my hair looked good after, stopped being itchy at least right away like shampoo does. This morning I haven't showered yet and my head is getting itchy though, but I figure it's not an instant fix kind of problem. Last night it didn't get itchy, so that's something? Although usually when I switch brands it stops being itchy as much for a bit until it gets used to the new product, and then gets itchy again.

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 Post subject: Re: No Poo
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:09 pm 
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nope. our skin has an acid mantle, and if you use only the baking soda, it'll end up being to alkaline and dried out. the vinegar essentially remoisturizes you. (especially if you use ACV, since there are natural oils in there.) you can also add a drop of coconut oil to the ACV and let that moisturize.

you might also want to try a pre-BS white vinegar soak, where you take a 50% dilution and leave it on your scalp for a bit to soften any crusties before scrubbing.

good luck! :-) definitely read the other thread i posted in my reply above. it's really long and most likely has some explanations for other issues. ::edit:: nevermind. i was thinking it was the old thread on the old boards. that thread had a lot of info. *frownyface* oh well. i guess this thread will have to build back up. :-)

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 Post subject: Re: No Poo
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:36 pm 
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does anyone have experience with hard/soft water? i think i am having issues due to that.

i have waist length, semi-curly hair, so i'm a bit hesitant to use BS more often than i already do because my hair is prone to dryness/frizziness. my routine is basically 1/2 tbsp BS in a cup of boiling water left to cool, followed by a diluted acv vinegar rinse once a week. my hair will look fine for about three days after. if i look greasy inbetween, i will do a wash with just the acv solution, which appears to work, but the next day, my hair will just stick together when i brush it and get plastered to my scalp. i think its residue from the water, and it gets left behind on my brush and hands too (gross, i know, sorry). i've been at it for a year and a half, and my hair is greasier than when i shampooed/conditioned once a week with drugstore shampoo :(


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 Post subject: Re: No Poo
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:08 pm 
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yeah, that's the greyish paste residue. lots of people get that. i still occasionally get that, and i've been doing this for almost 8 years. but mine is orange because of the henna and shikakai. :-) (that's another reason i switched to using some conditioner.) i'm assuming it's partially sebum mixing with stuff, and an oil needs to get it out. (you know how people use butter to get gum out of hair?) maybe try using a natural (silicone-free) conditioner to clarify, brush it through well, and then see how it goes with your regular routine after that. do you put any essential oils in your ACV? i wonder if there would be enough oil in a drop of essential oils to help cut some sebum.

also, are you adding the baking soda to the boiling water, or are you boiling it and then letting it cool and then adding the baking soda? cause i wonder if the baking soda is reacting with something in your water and you're washing with the product of the reaction instead of baking soda that just so happens to have been diluted in hard water? (heat makes chemical reactions happen faster.)

i know you don't want to use too much baking soda, but you might have to up your BS just once to clarify, brush it through so it scrubs each strand, and then you can add some conditioner to your ACV rinse to curb some of the dryness.

here's the greyish paste residue tag on the LJ community for further reading. http://no-poo.livejournal.com/tag/greyi ... 0hairbrush
(also, here's the hard water tag.) http://no-poo.livejournal.com/tag/water ... %2Fsoft%29

oh. hmm. now that i'm thinking of "plastered to your scalp" do you use a nozzle to direct the baking soda solution to your roots, or are you just dumping it on top hoping that it'll make it's way down? cause if there's enough sebum in your hair, it'll act like a duck. (you know, water off a duck's back?) if you get a squeezy bottle and direct the baking soda solution down into your scalp, i'm sure that'd help quite a bit.

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 Post subject: Re: No Poo
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:55 pm 
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thanks! will browse the links. i think i'll try more BS first to clarify... i dump it on, but do it in parts and turn my head so the sides, top and underside definitely get coated. it's weird, my hair is clean from the BS/ACV wash, it's just like the 'clean' doesn't last as long as it used to when i shampooed and my scalp seems to make more oil now, which is the opposite of what most people claim no 'poo does - so a week is like, 3-4 days good, 2 days 'ehh' with WO/ACV rinses and wash day is "shiitake why do i not have a hat!" i felt so good about ditching hair products, i'll go to conditioner as a last resort.

i'll see if there's a difference between letting the water cool and adding the BS right away... i started doing the boil because it seemed to reduce the residue when i first started, so i just decided it was something to stick with. i totally did not think of that as a factor at all!

i do use some lavender oil in the ACV, but whatever difference it makes, i can't really notice.


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 Post subject: Re: No Poo
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:51 pm 
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it's possible the oiliness is coming from your scalp being too alkaline. if you don't effectively get the ACV onto your scalp to neutralize the effects of the baking soda, then your scalp will go into panic mode, and produce oils to neutralize it for you. (it's very important to return your scalp to a happy acidic state.) i know you can get a squeezy bottle from restaurant supply stores and i think bed bath and beyond. it really does help a lot. until then, if you lift your hair so the roots are sticking straight out from your head, it'll be more likely to slosh it's way in there.

in general, other than the occasional clarifying wash, your length doesn't really even need to touch the baking soda. (especially since it's curly/frizzy. some sebum will definitely help calm the frizz.)

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 Post subject: Re: No Poo
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:44 pm 
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How does this work in regards to tangles? For some reason, my hair has been ridiculously tangled lately straight from the shower. I haven't had this problem since I was a young kid, so I'm baffled. My hair is fairly thin and wavy, so I can't really afford to lose all this hair due to stubborn tangles!

I've been curious about the no poo thing for a while. I figure I'm going to have to change something about my routine, but I don't want to switch to something that will make the tangling worse.

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 Post subject: Re: No Poo
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:55 pm 
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mine is coarse and hefty, so it can handle being brushed while wet, so i don't think my experience will help much, but tangling wasn't much of a problem for me until it grew past my butt. (actually, for me, brushing while it's dry causes more problems than when it's wet.)

but, it's possible that your scales aren't smoothed down, whatever your routine is now, it might be too alkaline? try an acidic rinse to calm them down. (choose a more natural apple cider vinegar to be more gentle than the harsh and smelly heinz stuff.) 1 tbsp in a cup of water should be plenty. and maybe try to comb it while the vinegar is in, or at least shortly after you rinse it out. (if it can handle being combed while wet, of course)

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 Post subject: Re: No Poo
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:02 pm 
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Right now, I'm still using regular shampoo & conditioner. So with this method, the vinegar is kinda like the conditioner?

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 Post subject: Re: No Poo
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:53 pm 
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if you wanted to, you could mix it in with the conditioner. (but there was a time where when i was working in a tick-infested area, where i resorted to using jason's dandruff shampoo every day, and all i used for "conditioner" was a citric acid rinse. after a few months, it started getting crispy, but it was good for a short time, so it's really up to you, but the conditioner might help with the tangles either way.)

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 Post subject: Re: No Poo
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:40 am 
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Thanks for all your input, suercarrot! That greyish gunk was why I quit no pooing. maybe i can try again now.

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 Post subject: Re: No Poo
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:12 am 
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any time. :-) if it comes back, and if conditioner alone doesn't work, there's nothing wrong with using a mild shampoo to get it out. i've learned to just accept it. my hair is happier when i don't get rid of it completely, and it builds pretty slowly for me, so i just consider it a part of my routine to wash it off of my comb. :-) i get out of the shower, and while my hair is still freshly wet, i'll comb it, and the gunk'll build up on the tines of the comb, and then i'll take my fingernail brush and scrub it under running water, and then go on and brush my hair again and then run the comb under water again. only every once in a while does it become unbearable, and that's when i'll do the clarifying thing where i brush the BS through all of it, but then it'll get slightly more unmanageable until it builds a little bit of sebum back up.

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 Post subject: Re: No Poo
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:43 pm 
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supercarrot! thanks again for your input... i tried changing a few minor things with the rinses which didn't improve too much - but what really got the grey crepe out was combing in the shower. i can feel a difference, and i'm hoping now that i know this works, i'll just have to do a thorough comb after the rinses to keep it from coming back. i was kinda alarmed at how much hair came out, but i'd attribute that to the occupational hazards of long hair over anything else.


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 Post subject: Re: No Poo
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:52 pm 
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Update from me is that I'm not noticing a difference with itching, but I do like that it takes out less grease from my hair than shampooing so my hair is less poofy after a wash. I still want to figure out a solution to this itching though as it drives me a bit mad.

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 Post subject: Re: No Poo
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:55 am 
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yay! i'm glad you got the gunk sorted out. (as for losing a rat's worth of hair, that comes with the territory of long hair. :-) especially for those of us who wash infrequently. we're still losing what? 100 hairs a day? if it's not being removed each day it'll build up to epic proportions.)

mars. i wonder if adding a bit of essential oils to your BS scrub would help. lavender and tea tree would probably help the best.

had you tried either the white vinegar pre-soak or the coconut oil moisturizer? (and had you started using an acid rinse?)

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 Post subject: Re: No Poo
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:16 am 
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No pre-soak, no coconut. My hair feels plenty greasy on it's own. Yeah I'm using ACV after I do the BS, but I've skipped the ACV a couple times cause I forgot to take it into the shower with me.

What do you think the pre-soak accomplishes? My hair itself feels fine, not too dirty or anything. After a wash my scalp feels good too, it's just by the end of the day that I'm itchy.

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 Post subject: Re: No Poo
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:26 am 
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the pre-soak is recommended for dandruff. i wonder if you have some sort of organism living up there. the full strength vinegar might encourage it to not live anymore.

also, the coconut wasn't suggested for your hair. it was suggested for the scalp. (although if you have short hair, then i guess they're one and the same. hmm.)

i am wondering if the "plenty greasy" is because your scalp is dry (hence the itchiness at the end of the day) and your scalp is releasing extra oils to make it less dry, but it's just ending up on your hair instead? if you can stand it, maybe try to help the transition along by having some days where you only wash with ACV, no BS at all. and if there are days where your hair looks fine, and your scalp isn't too itchy, try skipping that day to give it a break.

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 Post subject: Re: No Poo
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:44 pm 
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I'll try the pre-soak and/or some only ACV days. I think even if I tried the coconut oil thing, it wouldn't make it to my scalp, my hair is so thick I don't know how I'd get it on anything but my hair. Also I feel like that'd get expensive!

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 Post subject: Re: No Poo
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:30 pm 
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naw. you'd only need a few drops. rub it on your fingertips and then coax your fingers through your hair and rub your scalp with it. (sorry i wasn't more clear earlier.)

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 Post subject: Re: No Poo
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:06 pm 
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butterbobbin wrote:
Thanks for all your input, suercarrot! That greyish gunk was why I quit no pooing. maybe i can try again now.


I had the greyish gunk. I eventually attributed it to very soft water which was not allowing all the BS to be rinsed out completely. It got cumulatively worse. One day I poured like half a cup of vinegar on my head and that got rid of the gunk finally. I don't use BS anymore.

In fact I don't really no-poo anymore because I'm using a shampoo bar, about twice a week. It seems like a good non-itch alternative for me. I think my scalp is allergic to regular shampoo now, but I couldn't keep my hair clean enough with vinegar alone.


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 Post subject: Re: No Poo
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:00 am 
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yeah, for myself, some days, it doesn't even feel like any of the BS washed out, no matter how much vinegar i use. glad the combing seems to work. not sure how to feel about how it essentially plays the role of sweeping compound on my head.

i'm curious about shampoo bars... what type do you use? how does it leave your hair? i was considering one to combat the grey crepe.


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 Post subject: Re: No Poo
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:10 pm 
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I use a simple shampoo bar from Vermont Soaps. http://shop.vermontsoap.com/Shampoo-Bar ... n74HCR2abM

It seems to leave my hair clean for 2 days, the third day it stays a little dirty, and I usually wash again on day 4. I don't need/use conditioner. If my hair were shorter or I kept the layers really short, I could probably extend the time between washes, but since I've grown my hair out, the oil weighs it down. With shorter hair, my hair seemed to look best on the 2nd day after washing, but now it's definitely best on day 1 and downhill from there.


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 Post subject: Re: No Poo
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:34 am 
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Did the white vinegar pre-soak this morning and man, my hair is so soft today! I keep touching it.

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 Post subject: Re: No Poo
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:54 pm 
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Anyone have any ideas about young babies and no 'pooing? Or how that would work? I've done no poo myself now for many years, and I did it with my daughter when she was a youngster/toddller, but what about really wee babies? I faltered with my daughter because she had a really bad facial scrape one time, and we were worried about the vinegar stinging. And when she took over her own bathing, she went right back to shapoo and so that ended. I wouldn't want small infant to get stung in the eyes with the vinegar or anything.... Or would you just use nothing at all, I think there is a method where some people use only water after de-acclimating their hair to shampoo for a long enough time, and a baby's hair would not be used to shampoo or any silicones yet. Actually, I do no poo method myself about once a week, with a successful water-only hair rinse in between procedures, about 4 -ish days in, so I know water-only can be "buit-up too".....thoughts?

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