| Register  | FAQ  | Search | Login 
It is currently Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:30 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1169 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 ... 47  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Weight/powerlifting
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:43 pm 
Offline
The Real Hamburger Helper
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:03 pm
Posts: 2292
Location: I can't believe it's not England!
Wince and rip them further and cause pain and uneven worsened grip strength. Which may contribute to elbow and shoulder issues a week or two later.


...I have no idea who would do that. In other news, I'm pretty much limited to machine leg stuff since my shoulder's forked over right now. Hoping it'll stop being sore enough to do a real leg workout next tuesday or so, but who knows.

_________________
"Vegan to me means Oreos for breakfast." -Poopiebitch
"tl;dr: I quit working to drink beer paid for with gift cards" erikasoyf*cker


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Weight/powerlifting
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:22 pm 
Offline
Calls "cavemen" on that
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:53 pm
Posts: 2365
Hey guys, I need to change up my routine. Been on a calorie restricted diet and doing massive amounts of cardio forever, and it is just not working.

I got the book "New rules of lifting for women" read it, and plan on starting a strength training program. Looking forward to it!

For the diet portion, they mention really high protein of course. I think 40% protein, 30% carb and 30% fat. I want to shoot for that, roughly. and of course increase my calories up to probably 1700-2000 a day once I get started.

For those of you that have read this book, and follow this plan, have any advice? I am thinking make a TON of seitan on Sundays, and lots of beans/chickpea cutlets, Tofu, lentils etc. And a good post recovery shake. Probably vega - ew.

Also, for working out, I do NOT want to give up my cardio! I love my cardio tai and kickboxing classes (2-3x a week). Glad I don't have to give them up. Does anyone lift on the same days they do cardio? The days I can work out are sometimes limited to a few a week, and I want to maximize my time.

Any other advice?

(sorry if this has been discussed to oblivion, the thread is long and I have not looked back in the earlier posts)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Weight/powerlifting
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:31 pm 
Offline
The Real Hamburger Helper
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:03 pm
Posts: 2292
Location: I can't believe it's not England!
Hey chicki! I started new rules last july. I do a bunch of cardio. I use a bike as transportation so im on it every day, even lifting days (though i usually lift and go straight home after work). That being said, i experimented with cardio and lifting on the same day (i trained for a half marathon for two and a half months). Cardio here being running or otherwise hard exertion since cycling is a pretty light steady state for me. The ONLY way it really worked for me was to do the cardio first. And my lifting sometimes suffered.

I do cardio type things like hill a d stair running on non lifting days accepting that i am probably not going to be as fast. I am more focused (when not injured) on my lifting since it is sooo much fun and worry less about slower race times.

If you can only do them on the same day, definitely do cardio first. As for diet, i try to eat a lot of veggies and beans/lentils but seitan/tofu would also work! I am in an emotional rut so I've been eating a lot of carbs. I add a hemp protein powder to my oatmeal a lot to try to make sure i meet my protein needs.

Also, take a picture now! Take a picture again near the end of stage 7. Im fairly sure i've gained weight but i have some pretty awesome definition in my shoulders and im slowly doing recomposition (recomp) ii'll see if i can post my recent picture (2nd to final workout in stage 7, taken at the end of a workout last week). I hadn't realized id made such a huge change in my body until i saw the two side by side.

Edited to add: i found the picture! http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y68/LilyanP/1A56D759-0A2E-488F-AC45-7E2653D57005_zpssler11iy.jpg

_________________
"Vegan to me means Oreos for breakfast." -Poopiebitch
"tl;dr: I quit working to drink beer paid for with gift cards" erikasoyf*cker


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Weight/powerlifting
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:13 pm 
Offline
Dr Bronners, MD
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:36 pm
Posts: 4646
Location: Philadelphia
Damn lillianp! You've definitely got some awesome definition going!

My lifting shoes came today, after UPS was released from the grip of our 47th snowstorm of the season. (UGH.) They are about half a size too big and I think I could use a slightly higher heel, but they do help a bit so I'm going to keep them around. Even with them my squats are pretty terrible... my body just is not good at them. It's really frustrating. My leg is still hurting a bit on and off too. Bleh. I just generally feel really tired and shitty today but I didn't want to skip my whole workout so I ended up just doing bench press and calling it a night.

Hi Chicki! I've never tried Vega, but when it's not stupid cold I like to have a protein smoothie after my workouts. I don't like the stuff straight up, so I usually throw it in with some soymilk, a banana, maybe some peanut butter - whatever. My favorite protein I've tried so far is Naturade Pea Protein. I've also tried Plant Fusion but it was really powdery and the stevia or whatever it's sweetened with was kind of overpowering. My favorite post-workout snack is Clif Builder Bars though. Tastes like a candy bar, has 20 g of protein.

_________________
@amandabear / illustration portfolio / will draw for cookies / more tea wesley?

"I'm now officially wafflesexual." - booberthefraggle


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Weight/powerlifting
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:29 pm 
Offline
Bought a used copy of Natural Harvest
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:29 pm
Posts: 6186
Location: Land of Maple and Beavers
Y'all are really inspiring. I always check this thread, momentarily feel like I can do it but then I feel like I don't know where to start.

_________________
Did you notice the slight feeling of panic at the words "Chicken Basin Street"? Like someone was walking over your grave? Try not to remember. We must never remember. - mumbles
Is this about devilberries and nazifruit again? - footface


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Weight/powerlifting
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:48 pm 
Offline
The Real Hamburger Helper
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:03 pm
Posts: 2292
Location: I can't believe it's not England!
paprikapapaya, I loved new rules of lifting! Programs to start are where it's at! :)

_________________
"Vegan to me means Oreos for breakfast." -Poopiebitch
"tl;dr: I quit working to drink beer paid for with gift cards" erikasoyf*cker


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Weight/powerlifting
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:21 pm 
Offline
Dr Bronners, MD
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:36 pm
Posts: 4646
Location: Philadelphia
Something like Stronglifts 5x5 is another good place to start! It's really simple and straightforward.

_________________
@amandabear / illustration portfolio / will draw for cookies / more tea wesley?

"I'm now officially wafflesexual." - booberthefraggle


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Weight/powerlifting
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:40 am 
Offline
Calls "cavemen" on that
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:53 pm
Posts: 2365
Thanks guys! lillianp, very inspiring pic! I'm starting my new workout routine today, I'll take a flabby pic for sure.

I will definitely do cardio first when I need to maximize time.hopefully, I can dedicate whole days to each, but with my work and travel schedule, not sure.

I'll also experiment with protein powders. Vega....blah. I think it's the stevia I don't like. Sun warrior is great, but soooooo expensive. Bars might be a good option too, and I can eat them on the way home from the gym! And they are usually on sale too, for $1

Also, last week I just kept my same exercise routine, but ate more than I usually do. More protein. ALREADY I can tell I lost a bit. Clothes are a tiny bit looser! Seriously, the super reduced calorie thing is a fail (for me). And I've been doing it for years!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Weight/powerlifting
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:29 pm 
Offline
Mispronounces Daiya

Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:49 am
Posts: 1410
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Hi Chicki, NROLFW was my first foray into lifting. I just started last spring. Like you, I was sick of overcardioing and undereating and not really seeing great results. I can say that weightlifting is definitely bringing results, and its so much fun. I like running and all, but I'm so glad I don't feel obligated to do it every day, 1+ hour long runs every week, etc. blech.

Lilianp gave you good advice. If I'm doing a longer run or a kettlebell workout (which I consider cardio) I do it on different days from lifting. I might do an easy run with my dog before I lift as a warmup, or I might do 15-20 minutes of HIIT after a workout depending on how trashed my legs are, if I'm feeling it, if I have time, etc. So I definitely still do cardio but less of it since the lifting sessions have become the backbone of my workout schedule.

As far as food, I aim for .8 grams of my body weight of protein. I keep a ton of individual portion sizes of cooked beans on hand along with chickpea cutlets and different types of seitan. I usually have one smoothie a day that I throw protein powder in. JonnyGuitar recommended the below protein powder, and I love it. It doesn't have much of a taste at all, so I like to use it in soups, oatmeal, sprinkled in salads. I just ordered a rice protein powder too but amazon is flipping out on me so I can't see which one; I'll report back with how it is once I get it.

http://www.amazon.com/Omega-Nutrition-P ... ein+powder

For calories, I actually have a calculator I got from someone on MFP. It uses your stats, including est BF %, and looks at all of the types of exercise you do to come up with a count (ie, lifting burns less than running - it doesn't just treat all activity as the same). If you want a copy I can send you one, just PM me. If you aren't as nerdy with numbers as I am, the estimates from NROLFW are definitely in the ballpark.

Paprikapapaya, join us! I didn't expect to like lifting as much as I do - its fun and brings out your inner bad asparagus.
And speaking of bad asparagus, nice progress pic Lilianp!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Weight/powerlifting
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:44 pm 
Offline
The Real Hamburger Helper
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:03 pm
Posts: 2292
Location: I can't believe it's not England!
Thanks Amandabear, Emmalv & chicki! I was pretty happy with it. My arms are likely going to lose strength since my shoulder got forked up but I'm hoping I can do arm stuff again by thursday. Maybe.

Chicki, it's not a flabby picture, it's just where you're at now and then take another picture in 4-6 months and it'll be you at that time. I find if I love my body now and everything, it's easier to be patient with the very slow changes that happen with weight lifting and healthy body recomp/fat loss over time. But that's what I struggle with. :)

I currently use this for protein powder: http://manitobaharvest.com/product/10/H ... 0-1lb.html

I need to be better at making sure I eat lots of veggies and protein and a little less carbs than I am currently. It'll make my moods a little more stable and probably better for my body composition too.

_________________
"Vegan to me means Oreos for breakfast." -Poopiebitch
"tl;dr: I quit working to drink beer paid for with gift cards" erikasoyf*cker


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Weight/powerlifting
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:33 pm 
Offline
Dr Bronners, MD
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:36 pm
Posts: 4646
Location: Philadelphia
Sooo I met with the trainer today. It went well and illuminated some things. We spent most of the session working on squats, but first things first: I pulled a 230 lb deadlift!! Which is a 12 lb PR and pretty super exciting. This was after 45 mins of squat stuff and form checking OHP and bench, too, so she said if I were fresh I could probably put another 10 lbs or so on the bar.

But like I said, mostly squat stuff since that's my problem area. I've been thinking all along that my inability to squat is flexibility-related, but I'm not so sure that's the case anymore. If I'm holding onto something, I can drop down into an ATG squat without any issues, and I can get below parallel when I do front squats. In fact, we discovered that while I suck mightily at back squats (and even air squats), front squats are comparatively quite easy and feel much more stable and natural, which I guess is the opposite of what most people experience. I quote: "You don't really want to tell people that they're weird... but that's weird." She pulled over a couple of other trainers and they tried to dissect the issue and the conclusion was basically that while my back and legs are strong, my abs are comparatively very weak - what with getting sliced through and stitched back together - and I lack the strength there to brace myself properly, so when I don't have some kind of counter weight to balance me, I just fall backwards. I never really thought about it that way, but I think it makes sense. And unfortunately there's only so much I can do to strengthen that area - it will probably always be weaker than average.

Anyway, her recommendation was to just switch to front squats. Easy as that. I'd still like to keep working on being able to back squat properly, but who knows how long it will take me to get there, so in the meantime I'm going to start fresh with front squats and work my way up in weight.

_________________
@amandabear / illustration portfolio / will draw for cookies / more tea wesley?

"I'm now officially wafflesexual." - booberthefraggle


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Weight/powerlifting
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:18 pm 
Offline
The Real Hamburger Helper
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:03 pm
Posts: 2292
Location: I can't believe it's not England!
That's neat, Amandabear! Good luck with the front squats. I hope you're able to progress faster. I did front squat to push press for NROLW and HATED it but I think it's because pressing up from my shoulders is my weakest point.

On another note, are any of you on fitocracy?

_________________
"Vegan to me means Oreos for breakfast." -Poopiebitch
"tl;dr: I quit working to drink beer paid for with gift cards" erikasoyf*cker


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Weight/powerlifting
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:22 pm 
Offline
Dr Bronners, MD
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:36 pm
Posts: 4646
Location: Philadelphia
Thanks! I don't mind front squats but I've never done them at anything other than a warm-up weight so we'll see how I feel once there are some plates on the bar.

I've never used Fitocracy. Thought about it, but the social aspect kind of puts me off. I do want to find an app to track my food and workouts, though. I used to use Lose It to track my food, and it's good for that, but the exercise tracking is pretty much limited to "weight lifting - 1 hr" which is not helpful.

_________________
@amandabear / illustration portfolio / will draw for cookies / more tea wesley?

"I'm now officially wafflesexual." - booberthefraggle


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Weight/powerlifting
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:36 pm 
Offline
The Real Hamburger Helper
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:03 pm
Posts: 2292
Location: I can't believe it's not England!
Yeah, fitocracy is a bit social-I enjoy parts of it but mostly the part where I can enter my workouts in. It's really useful for tracking weights/etc. I *think* there's a foot part too?

_________________
"Vegan to me means Oreos for breakfast." -Poopiebitch
"tl;dr: I quit working to drink beer paid for with gift cards" erikasoyf*cker


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Weight/powerlifting
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:06 am 
Offline
Dr Bronners, MD
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:36 pm
Posts: 4646
Location: Philadelphia
Ohhhh god second day DOMS.

Yeah, I've seen mention of "Fitocracy Macros" on several lifting blogs, but googling leads me to believe that's a separate app?

_________________
@amandabear / illustration portfolio / will draw for cookies / more tea wesley?

"I'm now officially wafflesexual." - booberthefraggle


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Weight/powerlifting
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:48 pm 
Offline
The Real Hamburger Helper
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:03 pm
Posts: 2292
Location: I can't believe it's not England!
Probably! I have been playing with the weight machines because of my shoulder and some lingering lower back pain that I"m trying to be careful with. But today on the "squat press" I did 360 pounds! 4 45 pounders on each side?!!

So legs are strong even if I haven't got the power to actually do squats that heavy. Also, my form has been shiitake since I got these new shoes so I'm not sure what to do about that since it's these or running shoes.

_________________
"Vegan to me means Oreos for breakfast." -Poopiebitch
"tl;dr: I quit working to drink beer paid for with gift cards" erikasoyf*cker


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Weight/powerlifting
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:01 am 
Offline
Nailed to the V
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:17 am
Posts: 597
Hey all. Amanda, interesting news on the abdominal weekness leading to your squat issues. Are you doing cross handed front squats olympic hand placements? I do cross handed and it is a little awkward but very comfortable for my elbows. Are you going to supplement with SLDL and Glute Ham Raises for your hamstrings and glutes? http://www.bodybuilding.com/exercises/detail/view/name/kettlebell-one-legged-deadlift are excellent for the hamstrings...prepare for serious Doms.

illianp: man, that picture is great!!! You got some serous shoulder and arm definition going on. Looking very strong, healthy and stylish. As to the more protein: big vat of legumes every week and add a 1/2 cup to every meal. Great for calories, healthy fats and a whack of protein.

8ball: my dearly departed Mum preached the value of rubbing alcohol applied to whatever portion of skin to harden it up for battle. Dries the skin out and thickens up like a callous. Worked for me when I did it for my fingertips.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Weight/powerlifting
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:54 am 
Offline
Dr Bronners, MD
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:36 pm
Posts: 4646
Location: Philadelphia
I'm doing the regular clean grip - it's fine with lower weights but I might have to switch to cross handed when the weight gets heavier. I prefer clean grip, because cross armed is kind of awkward, but I tend to have some issues with my right wrist (drawing hand) so I don't want to exacerbate that. I'm planning to add in some straight leg deadlifts for glutes/hams but I will give the single leg version a shot too! I'm not sure I have the appropriate setup to do glute ham raises... hmm. I'm about to switch over to the beginner variation of 5/3/1, which still has squats in twice a week, so my tentative plan is to do front squats for one session and try work on back squats for the other.

Since I had to find my 1RMs for 5/3/1: OHP is 75, bench is 95, and deadlift is 240. I tested OHP and bench on the same day so I might be able to get slightly higher on either or both, but these are the numbers I'm working with to start. For front/back squats I'll just be starting with the bar and working my way up with a straight 3x5 for the time being. I'm excited to switch over but also kind of nervous because the weights for the first cycle or two seem so light, but I know that's by design.

Speaking of DOMS... day 3 and my thighs are still burning. Yowza.

_________________
@amandabear / illustration portfolio / will draw for cookies / more tea wesley?

"I'm now officially wafflesexual." - booberthefraggle


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Weight/powerlifting
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:20 am 
Offline
Mispronounces Daiya

Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:49 am
Posts: 1410
Location: Las Vegas, NV
YES to 1-legged deadlift DOMS. Yowza. There was a bunch in STS and I felt even when I used fairly light weight, I was guaranteed to be hurtin' the next day.

Amandabear, is 5/3/1 a new program you are doing?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Weight/powerlifting
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:47 am 
Offline
Dr Bronners, MD
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:36 pm
Posts: 4646
Location: Philadelphia
Yep! 5/3/1 is a program by Jim Wendler. It's generally considered an intermediate program because it's got less straight volume and a slower progression scheme - you work off percentages of your 1RM and only increase that number once a month. With the exception of squats I think I've mostly exhausted my initial gains and feel good about switching. My trainer has recommended it a few times as well.

Here's a rundown of the program (there's a book/ebook, but this is a decent summary): http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art ... e_strength
And a more beginner-friendly modification, which is what I'm going to be doing until I get my squats back up and running (I still don't think I'd do this program as a complete newb): http://www.jimwendler.com/2011/09/531-for-a-beginner/

On the subject of deadlift variations, has anyone done one-armed suitcase deadlifts? I just ran across them and am intrigued. It seems like a great exercise to work on core stabilization, which I need a lot of.

_________________
@amandabear / illustration portfolio / will draw for cookies / more tea wesley?

"I'm now officially wafflesexual." - booberthefraggle


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Weight/powerlifting
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:03 pm 
Online
Vegan Vegan Vegan Vegan Vegan
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:49 pm
Posts: 4399
Location: Toronto, ON
amandabear wrote:
Since I had to find my 1RMs for 5/3/1: OHP is 75, bench is 95, and deadlift is 240.


Wowza, you are my weight lifting hero!

_________________
I like my bagels like I like my men - big and covered with earth balance & nooch. - Bunniee

http://veganforthewin.wordpress.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Weight/powerlifting
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:15 pm 
Offline
The Real Hamburger Helper
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:03 pm
Posts: 2292
Location: I can't believe it's not England!
I've never tried the one arm suitcase deadlift but now I want to!

Lobsteriffic... me too! Amandabear's been KILLING it. In a good way!

_________________
"Vegan to me means Oreos for breakfast." -Poopiebitch
"tl;dr: I quit working to drink beer paid for with gift cards" erikasoyf*cker


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Weight/powerlifting
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:36 pm 
Offline
Dr Bronners, MD
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:36 pm
Posts: 4646
Location: Philadelphia
Thanks guys! I'm happy with everything else, but I do wish I could squat, like, at all. Working on it!

So tonight I did those single-leg deadlifts and they are so hard. Like, I am so bad at them that I'm not sure how I walk around in my life every day without just falling over when I bend down to pick up a pen. I was only using 14 lb dumbbells! I kept losing my balance and it was generally a really humbling experience. Soooo I'm gonna have to keep working on those.

Planning to try out the one arm suitcase deadlifts during my workout tomorrow, so I'll report back!

_________________
@amandabear / illustration portfolio / will draw for cookies / more tea wesley?

"I'm now officially wafflesexual." - booberthefraggle


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Weight/powerlifting
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:20 pm 
Offline
Nailed to the V
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:17 am
Posts: 597
Ooh, I like that suitcase lift and I do it when I moving weights around but I have never done it as a full exercise. Must be great for the obliques.

Amanda, your numbers are fantastic! Is your husband starting to get threatened by your impressive numbers? "Honey, I have a flat tire. Can you please just lift up the back of the Prius for a few minutes."

When I do the Single legged deads I have my sawhorse set-up in case I need to grab for support instead of falling on my face. Wait until tomorrow....best ham doms ever with that exercise!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Weight/powerlifting
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:48 pm 
Offline
Saggy Butt
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:45 pm
Posts: 287
i'm baaack. did a bit of lifting last night. nothing with any wild foot flexing, but still... hooray :) (based on how it's healing i think the toe was either dislocated or badly sprained... still a bit puffy and sore but i can move it again without agonizing pain)

does anyone know anything about ankle weights? it seems to be a thing with our roller derby team where some people do practice with ankle weights. from what i've read, it's good for endurance, but you possibly risk over extending some muscles when you stop using them. i've skated a few with really light ones and just bought some heavier adjustable ones, but so far all i've been noticing is that i feel real tired at the end of practice.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1169 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 ... 47  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Template made by DEVPPL/ThatBigForum and fancied up by What Cheer