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 Post subject: Do you notice that testers come out clean...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:58 am 
Venomous Head of Veganism
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...even when things aren't done baking? I think it's a GF phenomenon. I will stick in a toothpick or a skewer or a knife and it will come out clean and everything will appear okay. But then once cooled, stuff is underbaked. It kind of stinks because it's so easy to dry out GF stuff that overbaking would ruin everything, but obvs underbaking sucks, too. My solution has been to test early and then give it 5 more minutes. Has anyone else noticed this?

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 Post subject: Re: Do you notice that testers come out clean...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:10 pm 
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I have not experienced this, but I also don't bake a lot anymore. I get gooey testers all the time. Sorry, I'm no help.


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 Post subject: Re: Do you notice that testers come out clean...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:23 pm 
The Real Hamburger Helper
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IsaChandra wrote:
...even when things aren't done baking? I think it's a GF phenomenon. I will stick in a toothpick or a skewer or a knife and it will come out clean and everything will appear okay. But then once cooled, stuff is underbaked. It kind of stinks because it's so easy to dry out GF stuff that overbaking would ruin everything, but obvs underbaking sucks, too. My solution has been to test early and then give it 5 more minutes. Has anyone else noticed this?


I'm not a tester and haven't experienced this, but to some point it makes sense (with my limited knowledge of things)

I assume that in regular baking things, stuff is "done" when the gluten are fixed/fixated and the skewer or needle comes out clean.

When it's gluten free, that no longer is an indicator if the recipe or mix is fully done ?

(where is susie tofu monster? she's the kind of person that could probably explain it all)


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 Post subject: Re: Do you notice that testers come out clean...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:47 pm 
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<3!

New boards!

I have a better name!

Thanks Veg Eric!


On the topic of the thread - So the toothpick test doesn't adequately identify the point at which these products are "done". These are my thoughts as to why you might notice this especially for gluten-free formulations:

* In gluten free batters, instead of doneness being a result of protein coagulation AND starch gelatinization, it is likely only or very-mostly-only a function of starch gelatinization, because gluten free vegan products probably don't have a lot of structural dependence on protein coagulation/gelation. Starch gelatinization starts at 140F, while gluten coagulation starts at 165F [1]. So, in a gluten-utilizing cake, the dry toothpick signals the temperature where protein coagulation happens has been reached, which is much higher than the starch gelatinization temperature. SO, it means that starch gelation has probably had the chance to reach completion.

* Gluten free things sometimes contain thickening components that do not require high heat to perform their thickening action, such as xanthan gum, which increases viscosity even before heating. Even if no gums are used, I'd guess that for a final product to be the correct texture, that maybe the starting batter must be thicker relative to the desired final texture than a batter containing proteins with structure-providing ability. The toothpick coming out dry really only means that a certain minimum thick and cohesive texture has been reached. If the raw gluten free product starts out thicker, because it can't rely on protein gelation for strength later on, then perhaps it will be more prone to reaching that minimum cohesiveness earlier, before all of the starch actually has had a chance to gelatinize.

I recommend scrapping the toothpick test for the gluten-free products. If it doesn't differentiate between "done" and "not done", there is not much point in doing it. Experiment with figuring out what a more reliable way of testing the product might be. If you have one of those oven probe thermometers, you could do some internal temperature monitoring, and examine how the maximum internal temperature reached correlates with the cooled product properties. Internal temperature seems as though it would be the most reliable way to predict doneness, although if you pay close attention to the gluten free things coming out of the oven at the right degree of doneness, you might be able to identify some characteristic that could signal doneness as conveniently as the toothpick, so you don't need the thermometer every time.

Cited:
[1] Gisslen, W. Professional Baking. 2004. Page 13. At Google Books: http://books.google.com/books?id=YrQZi4 ... re&f=false


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 Post subject: Re: Do you notice that testers come out clean...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:25 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Do you notice that testers come out clean...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:10 am 
Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
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Susie!

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 Post subject: Re: Do you notice that testers come out clean...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:55 pm 
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Susie wrote:
I'd guess that for a final product to be the correct texture, that maybe the starting batter must be thicker relative to the desired final texture than a batter containing proteins with structure-providing ability.


Yes ma'am, this is true.


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 Post subject: Re: Do you notice that testers come out clean...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:39 pm 
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Dr. Apricot wrote:
Susie, will you marry me? <3

can we do a three way?

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 Post subject: Re: Do you notice that testers come out clean...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:41 pm 
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kittee wrote:
Dr. Apricot wrote:
Susie, will you marry me? <3

can we do a three way?


Yes!

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That commercial didn't make me want to go out and buy Dove, but this thread did make me sniff my armpits. They smell like apricot. - designedtobekind


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 Post subject: Re: Do you notice that testers come out clean...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:08 pm 
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Dr. Apricot wrote:
kittee wrote:
Dr. Apricot wrote:
Susie, will you marry me? <3

can we do a three way?


Yes!


gluten-three marriage?

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 Post subject: Re: Do you notice that testers come out clean...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:03 am 
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Usually the testing works for me. But I had to bake a recipe 10 minutes longer yesterday because it was gluten-free'd.

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