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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:45 am 
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braisenwoman wrote:
I dunno, It's not like the cheese was bad, per say...but I don't like it. I don't know that I'll eat it, to be honest. It just was nowhere near its dairy counterpart, which was my expectation based on Miyoko's description. Anyone have suggestions? I really, really, really want this to work!

I have only made the non-melty mozz but I totally agree with you about the taste not standing up to my expectations. I don't even like the taste of mozzarella anymore but my mozzarella just tasted like cashew yogurt balls to me. It's a shame because my husband loves mozzarella and Parmesan and we can't find anything close enough. Nuts and nooch and yogurt/rejuvelac taste like, well, nuts and nooch and yogurt/rejuvelac. And that's not a slight to the book! I've really liked the hard cheeses and dips I've tried.

I don't have any helpful advice on how to improve the recipe, just sharing in the bummed outedness. Maybe you could try a mix of macadamias and coconut? Those seem pretty rich and mild. About giving up cheese...for me knowing how it's made wasn't enough to gross me out and stop the ridiculous attachment I had to the stuff. It took years of willpower avoiding it until one day my palate changed. For my husband, it's not enough to make him give it up. He's just not there yet. It would be so nice to have a close tasting sub. The fact that the best we've come up with is Daiya and FYH is a testament to how complicated these cheeses are.

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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:25 am 
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couroupita wrote:
braisenwoman wrote:
I dunno, It's not like the cheese was bad, per say...but I don't like it. I don't know that I'll eat it, to be honest. It just was nowhere near its dairy counterpart, which was my expectation based on Miyoko's description. Anyone have suggestions? I really, really, really want this to work!

I have only made the non-melty mozz but I totally agree with you about the taste not standing up to my expectations. I don't even like the taste of mozzarella anymore but my mozzarella just tasted like cashew yogurt balls to me. It's a shame because my husband loves mozzarella and Parmesan and we can't find anything close enough. Nuts and nooch and yogurt/rejuvelac taste like, well, nuts and nooch and yogurt/rejuvelac. And that's not a slight to the book! I've really liked the hard cheeses and dips I've tried.

I don't have any helpful advice on how to improve the recipe, just sharing in the bummed outedness. Maybe you could try a mix of macadamias and coconut? Those seem pretty rich and mild. About giving up cheese...for me knowing how it's made wasn't enough to gross me out and stop the ridiculous attachment I had to the stuff. It took years of willpower avoiding it until one day my palate changed. For my husband, it's not enough to make him give it up. He's just not there yet. It would be so nice to have a close tasting sub. The fact that the best we've come up with is Daiya and FYH is a testament to how complicated these cheeses are.


YES. Yes to all of this. I was actually debating if macadamias might work better in this recipe - good suggestion. I worry that coconut will taste too coconut-y, but then again, that might be delicious, in its own "milky" kind of way. :)

I'm going to try a few other recipes I've discovered online, in the hopes of landing on something a little closer to what I'm hoping for. I'll let you know if any of them pan out!

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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:27 am 
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I have a mozz recipe that is pretty quick and that i'm satisfied with. If anyone is interested PM me and I'll dig out my recipe. (It takes a little from this source, a little from that source, so I don't consider it solely "mine" and therefore don't think its right to just post it here, but I think its ok to share via email if asked?)


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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:35 am 
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Cornelie wrote:
braisenwoman wrote:
Cornelie wrote:
I don't think any vegan cheese will taste just like it's dairy counterpart, especially not if you have dairy on hand to compare it with. My appreciation of vegan cheeses has grown a lot since I stopped eating dairy cheese, cause I can't compare them anymore. Even before that I felt that they should be enjoyed as their own thing. The comparison with dairy cheese is just to give you a general idea of what the nut cheese is like, it will never be exactly the same.

If you don't like a particular vegan cheese, that's fine, but don't blame it for not being dairy cheese, because it's not.


I don't blame it for not being dairy cheese - that would be ridiculous, of course. I don't blame portobellos for not being steak, or seitan for not being chicken. I totally agree that the best way to go about many vegan or vegetarian items that might be seen as "substitutions" is to love them for what they are. My point was that this particular cheese has been sold by Miyoko (and others) as tasting freakishly close - even passing for - dairy mozzarella. That was the point of comparing it to the dairy mozzarella. I was super excited about the awesomeness of a cheese that accurate to its original inspiration. And I think she oversold that particular comparison. Just my opinion.

That said, I'm super not interested into getting into any sort of debate on here about it... I was just hoping that others might have some suggestions or thoughts on how I could improve on the outcome the next go-around. I love vegan nut cheeses. Just not this one. *shrug*

I'm sorry, maybe I sounded a bit harsh when but I didn't mean to be. I agree it's silly that vegan cheese cookbooks from Ultimate Uncheese to AVC claim that their recipes taste just like dairy cheese when they don't. AVC comes closer than any other I've tried so far. Maybe you could fool some unsuspecting omnis with it, but critics will notice the difference, especially if there is a direct comparison on hand. Mozzarella is very difficult to imitate because the taste is so milky and the texture relies heavily on casein proteins, which only occur in dairy.

I loved the taste of dairy cheese and took a very long time to let go of it, so I understand where you're coming from. At some point I decided I really did not want to eat it anymore because animals were hurt and killed to make it. Like _rootVeg points out, once I made that decision, dairy cheese sort of stopped tasting good to me (both because of the ethics and because my taste perception changed). This is a vegan forum after all, so people can get a bit itchy if you talk about eating and loving dairy cheese.


It's all good! I appreciate the feedback. I live in a bit of dietary no-man's land as a vegetarian-who-eats-mostly-vegan, and it can be tricky to navigate those waters. I used to beat myself up about it - I felt a lot of shame in not being able to "commit" to full-time veganism - but I've made my peace with it. Endless respect for everyone here. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:13 pm 
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I tried to make the almond ricotta & it's more grainy then smooth - I had the almonds soaking for 9 1/2 hours -did it need to be longer? I used a Cuisinart & then tried an immersion blender


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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:08 pm 
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love this book. i keep a jar of sharp cheddar - which i prefer unthickened for spreading - a jar of the cream cheese, and a jar of yoghurt on-hand at all times!

i've tried to air dry, but i run into problems with mold after a few days. when i have some spare time, i'm going to convert an old wine fridge into a cheese cave to see if that'll help.

i've also tried several of the yoghurt cheeses, but i don't like the texture after thickening with the carrageenan. so i skip that step and ease up on the tapioca too, then use them as thick sauces since i'm just going to melt them anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:10 am 
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I picked up more soy yogurt today and I'm excited to jump back in...

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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:41 pm 
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i really struggled with making yoghurt at first until i got one of these machines that i rewarded myself with after a good night of blackjack:

Image

i chose it because it cultures in one large container, has an adjustable timer and then automatically switches to "cool" mode and chills the finished yoghurt.

Image

comes out nice and thick:

Image

i originally used some Whole Soy plain as the starter but now I just start each new batch from the previous one.

i also use the machine to culture the cashew cream cheese and get really consistent results.

it was just over $100 but between the long drive and the high cost of store bought, I think it has more than made up for the initial investment.


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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:34 am 
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emmalv wrote:
I have a mozz recipe that is pretty quick and that i'm satisfied with. If anyone is interested PM me and I'll dig out my recipe. (It takes a little from this source, a little from that source, so I don't consider it solely "mine" and therefore don't think its right to just post it here, but I think its ok to share via email if asked?)

that's how most recipes are made these days. :-) the only thing "copyrightable" is the directions. (after all, monkeys and shakespeare and all that.)
you can also always mention your sources in a "thank you" section. if you prefer.

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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:51 am 
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braisenwoman wrote:
YES. Yes to all of this. I was actually debating if macadamias might work better in this recipe - good suggestion. I worry that coconut will taste too coconut-y, but then again, that might be delicious, in its own "milky" kind of way. :)

I'm going to try a few other recipes I've discovered online, in the hopes of landing on something a little closer to what I'm hoping for. I'll let you know if any of them pan out!


I made the brie with coconut yoghurt because that's all I can get here and and the coconut taste is overwhelming in the finished brie. It isn't as good as the one I made when I was able to find unsweetened plain soy yoghurt.


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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:36 am 
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supercarrot wrote:
emmalv wrote:
I have a mozz recipe that is pretty quick and that i'm satisfied with. If anyone is interested PM me and I'll dig out my recipe. (It takes a little from this source, a little from that source, so I don't consider it solely "mine" and therefore don't think its right to just post it here, but I think its ok to share via email if asked?)

that's how most recipes are made these days. :-) the only thing "copyrightable" is the directions. (after all, monkeys and shakespeare and all that.)
you can also always mention your sources in a "thank you" section. if you prefer.


Actually, thanks for responding to that, supercarrot. I kind of felt nervous about sharing anything, this is totally new territory for me. For those that asked, I did say from which sources I pulled from, just as an ethical CYA for my conscience. Plus I figured those folks could look look at those particular sources if they wanted to see more.

Ok, onwards to yogurt and cheese...

I'm sad because the sharp cheddar I made (and made several times already) sort of inexplicably "broke" and got oily. I thing it was really warm from being at room temp for culturing, since its warm here in LV, and then the final cooking step just took no time all to separate. So, I used it for Miyoko's mac and cheese recipe. It was pretty good but I think my soy milk was on the sweet side so I ended up putting in some mustard and nooch to unsweeten it. The end result was then much like the couple of other mac and cheese recipes I've tried. Still on the hunt for the perfect one...


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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:00 am 
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okay. :-) can you send it to supercarrot.recipes [AT] gmail.com? <3

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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:50 am 
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VeganVamp wrote:
I have my air-dried camembert culturing on the counter. I swear this time I WILL finish it into its cooked state/air-drying, by end of today! Each other time I started it, I've stolen spoonful after spoonful after spoonful, either to "check its tartness" (haha) or to steal a bit for use as a sour cream-type garnish (sooo good), and never got to the cheese-making/molding.

I promise, I stole just two spoonfuls this morning to top my gallo pinto. It's just so amazingly yummy, that cheese mixture....


Count the air-dried cheddar as another one that may not see its firm/dried state: the culturing velvety mixture is WONDERFUL. I mixed a few huge spoons into some cooked pasta yesterday for a quick mac n' cheese (which was SO reminiscent of good ol' omni mac n' cheese), and then I stole a little custard cup to use with my vegan bean/rice burrito this morning. The taste is just fantastic. And after reading all the reviews, it's only going to get better, the more it sits and dries.

The "magic" of mixing yogurt, cashews, rejuvelac, nooch, salt, etc, and ending up with cheese - a real cheesy cheese that is leaps and bounds beyond commercial vegan cheese I've tried - still blows my mind. ♥


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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:54 am 
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Max&Moritz wrote:
I made the brie with coconut yoghurt because that's all I can get here and and the coconut taste is overwhelming in the finished brie. It isn't as good as the one I made when I was able to find unsweetened plain soy yoghurt.


I've only used the coconut yogurt as a starter for my own batch of Miyoko's yogurt, and there is NO coconut taste in the final product.

I picked up Nancy's Soy yogurt last week, because I wanted to make air-dried camembert mixture as a Mexican-style crema and didn't have any of my own yogurt made. It did the job, albeit a bit sweet - but can't get over how odd it looks: kinda brownish-beige in color, and very gelatinous, as opposed to the creamy loveliness of the homemade yogurt. It pretty much solidifies my need to always have rejuvelac, homemade yogurt, and a bunch of cashews lying around at all times!


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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:27 pm 
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VeganVamp wrote:
I picked up Nancy's Soy yogurt last week, because I wanted to make air-dried camembert mixture as a Mexican-style crema and didn't have any of my own yogurt made. It did the job, albeit a bit sweet - but can't get over how odd it looks: kinda brownish-beige in color, and very gelatinous, as opposed to the creamy loveliness of the homemade yogurt. It pretty much solidifies my need to always have rejuvelac, homemade yogurt, and a bunch of cashews lying around at all times!


I still haven't been able to attain the holy grail of thick home made yoghurt. I have to use a live yoghurt starter which is no problem, but the resulting yoghurt always comes out really runny, in no way able to be strained, and the whey separates after refrigeration. I've tried various types of milk, culturing (Miyoko's sunshine and blanket, thermos, cooler with a jar of hot water, and excalibur dehydrator). I've added blended cashews a la Miyoko, as well as soymilkpower to add more protein. I've tried coconut yoghurt only as well as a blend of coconut and soy yoghurt as starter. Nothing worked. I get a slightly tart flavour and really runny yoghurt. If I add starch, would the yoghurt still drain?


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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:35 pm 
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You can add millet to have a thick yoghurt. Here is the receipe http://smakoterapia.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... stwie.html It is in Polsih, but google translator should help (if not I can help with translation). I made such yoghurt and it is delicious.


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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:58 pm 
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For thick yogurt, you can add agar when you boil your soymilk.


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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:22 pm 
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mumixam wrote:

Image


What machine is this? Looks so awesome, love the giant container.

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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:44 am 
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rainbowwine - sorry for the delayed response... it's a Cuisinart Model # CUI CYM-100


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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:56 pm 
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nepenthes59 wrote:
I tried to make the almond ricotta & it's more grainy then smooth - I had the almonds soaking for 9 1/2 hours -did it need to be longer? I used a Cuisinart & then tried an immersion blender


Unfortunately, a food processor won't do the job, and neither will an immersion blender. You need a high speed blender for this, or soak them for 24 hours or more, and blend in smaller batches, adding water to achieve a creamy consistency. Should not be grainy at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:46 pm 
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I started a new jar of rejuvelac today and just placed an order for more Kappa Carrageenan. Yesssss.

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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:03 pm 
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jdfunks wrote:
I started a new jar of rejuvelac today and just placed an order for more Kappa Carrageenan. Yesssss.


Hip hip - I also started a new jar of rejuvelac, bunking with the two jars of yogurt I have wrapped in oven mitts, nesting in my slightly-warmed oven. =)

Craving some cheese! Can't wait till that yogurt is ready tomorrow.


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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:36 pm 
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Words cannot express my infatuation with (successfully) making my own yogurt!

I think I've cracked the code, and I do not live in a "warm" climate (usually high 60s/low 70s are our highs, although we have some heat spells now and again).

About 500pm, I wrapped my two jars of warm yogurt mixture in oven mitts and set them, standing, in my small Le Creuset. Heated the oven just to 110°F (the dial only goes as low as 180°F, so I just turn it off when the thermometer reads 110°F), then placed the pan in the oven.

3 hours later, I again slightly pre-heated the oven to 110°F, then turned it off (yogurt still inside). Left everything in the oven and went to bed.

Awoke 10 hours later to perfect yogurt in my cool oven: thick, creamy, none of that gelatinous texture store-bought yogurt has, and just the right tang for me. I don't want to be without this yogurt (and, fortunately, I don't have to!).

I have tried a few other methods previously: setting a jar on top of a plastic plate in a water bath inside my crock-pot, and turning it on and off periodically; and setting the jars inside 1/2-gallon thermal containers, pouring in warm water, and exchanging cool water with fresh warm water a few times every so often. Each of those methods resulted in yogurt that somewhat separated: it was pretty good, but not quite thick enough, and always had a layer of water at the bottom of each jar.

This new method resulted in a full jar of thick & creamy yogurt, no extra water!

Happy, happy... Soaking some cashews to make more Camembert mixture (which I prefer in its liquid state, used as a sour cream over rice/beans, tacos, etc).


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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:24 pm 
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VeganVamp wrote:
Words cannot express my infatuation with (successfully) making my own yogurt!

I think I've cracked the code, and I do not live in a "warm" climate (usually high 60s/low 70s are our highs, although we have some heat spells now and again).

About 500pm, I wrapped my two jars of warm yogurt mixture in oven mitts and set them, standing, in my small Le Creuset. Heated the oven just to 110°F (the dial only goes as low as 180°F, so I just turn it off when the thermometer reads 110°F), then placed the pan in the oven.

3 hours later, I again slightly pre-heated the oven to 110°F, then turned it off (yogurt still inside). Left everything in the oven and went to bed.

Awoke 10 hours later to perfect yogurt in my cool oven: thick, creamy, none of that gelatinous texture store-bought yogurt has, and just the right tang for me. I don't want to be without this yogurt (and, fortunately, I don't have to!).

I have tried a few other methods previously: setting a jar on top of a plastic plate in a water bath inside my crock-pot, and turning it on and off periodically; and setting the jars inside 1/2-gallon thermal containers, pouring in warm water, and exchanging cool water with fresh warm water a few times every so often. Each of those methods resulted in yogurt that somewhat separated: it was pretty good, but not quite thick enough, and always had a layer of water at the bottom of each jar.

This new method resulted in a full jar of thick & creamy yogurt, no extra water!

Happy, happy... Soaking some cashews to make more Camembert mixture (which I prefer in its liquid state, used as a sour cream over rice/beans, tacos, etc).


I also tried all methods except what you described above. Did you add cashews to your "milk", and did you use a yoghurt as starter, or did you buy a starter?


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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:01 pm 
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Max&Moritz wrote:
I also tried all methods except what you described above. Did you add cashews to your "milk", and did you use a yoghurt as starter, or did you buy a starter?


Yep, followed Miyoko's recipe exactly, using the soaked cashews, and 3T of leftover yogurt (have used So Delicious Coconut with success, and this time it was Nancy's, which I'd purchased in a pinch) + soy milk. Nancy's on its own is sweet, but makes no difference in the large batch, from my experience (or maybe I'm not that discerning).

From Miyoko's forum:

"The yogurt has to be maintained at 110 degrees for 4 – 8 hours, or it won’t thicken. It can’t just reach it, then cool down. Try wrapping the jar in a warm blanket or towels, and set put it in an oven that has been heated then turned off. Are you using soy milk? It won’t thicken in the refrigerating – the yogurt bacteria only grow in warm temperatures."


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