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 Post subject: Re: Happy Herbivore Cookbook
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:00 am 
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Efcliz wrote:
See, to be totally fair, Joni had a tofu omelet on her blog ages even before Vegan Brunch came out. And I dare say someone else had one before she did too. I'm certainly not saying Isa copied it, just that like Vijita says there's not too many really new ideas with the same set of ingredients. I'll be very interested to look at the book though.


It's not about the concept of a tofu omelet, it's about particular amounts and combinations of ingredients that make it work.

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 Post subject: Re: Happy Herbivore Cookbook
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:14 am 
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I think the thing is that it's not the fact that there are many vegan authors making the same dish. I mean, in the omni world, how many chicken a la king recipes are out there? Probably about a hundred gajillion, and that's normal and fine (I mean, except for the chicken aspect, which is wrong and gross). The thing that I think is rotten about the HH cookbook is that the omelet recipe is almost exactly the same as Isa's. It's not just A tofu omelet recipe, which would be a total non-issue; it's that it's SOMEONE ELSE'S tofu omelet recipe, barely even modified, and printed as the author's own creation. To me, that's a dealbreaker, and I won't support that kind of conduct.

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 Post subject: Re: Happy Herbivore Cookbook
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:33 am 
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I have a couple of her e-books and I've never cooked anything from them, they were unimpressive. I should probably try a couple of recipes before I come to that conclusion but nothing stood out as something I wanted to try.

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 Post subject: Re: Happy Herbivore Cookbook
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:05 am 
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Venomous Head of Veganism
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OK, honestly, when I got that manuscript to give a blurb I immediately saw a few recipes that were too close for comfort. The omelet and the sausages were two. The sausages were basically my recipe with a few mods, and if any of you have seen Vegan Brunch you'll know that I dedicated an entire page of the book to thanking Julie Hasson for the method. Did Julie invent steaming seitan? No. But did she do it in a new and creative way? Yes. I took that method and added my spin (with the pinto beans and stuff.) Vegan Dad took that method and invented his sausages. But look at Vegan Dad's recipes and you will see he talks about the origins of the recipe as well. I didn't delve too deep into this to see if there was anything else, but those come to mind.

So is it legal to modify recipes and not give credit? Yes. Is it cool? Not really. The sad thing is, it takes two seconds to say thank you and also makes people happy. So why not go that route instead? I'll never get it.

Links:
On Sausages and Community: http://www.theppk.com/2008/02/on-sausag ... community/
On recipe plagiarism: http://www.theppk.com/2008/06/our-cookies-ourselves/

And I am sure this will be the PPK drama of the day, so if the author is reading this, I just hope you'll be more mindful in the future. I am sure I have made mistakes like this but it's never too late to learn from them. And if you don't think it's a mistake, oh well.

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 Post subject: Re: Happy Herbivore Cookbook
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:17 pm 
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Kitchens Planning Manchester
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Dr. Apricot wrote:
Efcliz wrote:
See, to be totally fair, Joni had a tofu omelet on her blog ages even before Vegan Brunch came out. And I dare say someone else had one before she did too. I'm certainly not saying Isa copied it, just that like Vijita says there's not too many really new ideas with the same set of ingredients. I'll be very interested to look at the book though.


It's not about the concept of a tofu omelet, it's about particular amounts and combinations of ingredients that make it work.


Yes, sorry, that's what I was trying to say but obviously failed. It's about taking a concept and twisting it; and that twist shouldn't just be swapping garlic powder for garlic. All that's needed is "This was inspired by....." at the beginning of the recipe.

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 Post subject: Re: Happy Herbivore Cookbook
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:46 pm 
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I really hope a cookbook author would have enough integrity to not use other's recipes and pass them off as her own. I still haven't tried any recipes from this book, and the only ones that are somewhat appealing to me are soups and a few of the baked goods, though I am extremely dissapointed in her strawberry cupcake recipe, which is just plain cupckaes with a slice of strawberry on top.

I only ordered the book because the table of contents looked like it had good recipes, but if I had known that most of the entrees relied on beef crumbles, I wouldn't have bought it. But the book has great reviews on Amazon, all fours and fives, so I bought it without looking for it in a store. As soon as I do get around to making a few recipes, I'll be giving it my own review on Amazon, but it's already no more then three-stars for me with the selection of recipes included.


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 Post subject: Re: Happy Herbivore Cookbook
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:56 pm 
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If you buy a book and are unhappy with it for legitimate reasons, don't be afraid to leave a less-than-positive review. It helps people!


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 Post subject: Re: Happy Herbivore Cookbook
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:04 pm 
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vijita wrote:
If you buy a book and are unhappy with it for legitimate reasons, don't be afraid to leave a less-than-positive review. It helps people!


Just be aware that if you do it on your blog you may get a snarky defensive comment from the author. I love that sort of thing so it didn't bother me when it happened (totally different writer, by the way).

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 Post subject: Re: Happy Herbivore Cookbook
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:17 pm 
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disneyfav4ever wrote:
I really hope a cookbook author would have enough integrity to not use other's recipes and pass them off as her own. I still haven't tried any recipes from this book, and the only ones that are somewhat appealing to me are soups and a few of the baked goods, though I am extremely dissapointed in her strawberry cupcake recipe, which is just plain cupckaes with a slice of strawberry on top.

I only ordered the book because the table of contents looked like it had good recipes, but if I had known that most of the entrees relied on beef crumbles, I wouldn't have bought it. But the book has great reviews on Amazon, all fours and fives, so I bought it without looking for it in a store. As soon as I do get around to making a few recipes, I'll be giving it my own review on Amazon, but it's already no more then three-stars for me with the selection of recipes included.


you can also return it. amazon has really good return policies.

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 Post subject: Re: Happy Herbivore Cookbook
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:19 pm 
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ijustdiedinside wrote:
disneyfav4ever wrote:
I really hope a cookbook author would have enough integrity to not use other's recipes and pass them off as her own. I still haven't tried any recipes from this book, and the only ones that are somewhat appealing to me are soups and a few of the baked goods, though I am extremely dissapointed in her strawberry cupcake recipe, which is just plain cupckaes with a slice of strawberry on top.

I only ordered the book because the table of contents looked like it had good recipes, but if I had known that most of the entrees relied on beef crumbles, I wouldn't have bought it. But the book has great reviews on Amazon, all fours and fives, so I bought it without looking for it in a store. As soon as I do get around to making a few recipes, I'll be giving it my own review on Amazon, but it's already no more then three-stars for me with the selection of recipes included.


you can also return it. amazon has really good return policies.


Can you return just because you don't like it? I thought it was just if it was sent late or in error or something. That's really useful to know!

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 Post subject: Re: Happy Herbivore Cookbook
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:12 pm 
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Smuggling Raisins

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I just looked at their shipping policies for books, and it looks like any book can be returned within 30 days, and not needed/wanted, is an option for returning.


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 Post subject: Re: Happy Herbivore Cookbook
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:40 pm 
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I tried a few recipes from this book today, didn't like them, left a two-star review on Amazon, got flamed for it, and got so worked up over the comments I received, (being told my review was "fake" and that I must not be able to follow a recipe because the book is awesome,) that I deleted my review. I really can't recommend this book to anyone, not only do I not like the recipes I tried, but the comments I got left a serious distaste in my mouth that I'll probably never pick up this book again, let alone buy anything else from this author.

But as far as the actual recipes go, the brownies are somewhat dry, have an odd taste to them, even with me adding extra cocoa, and an off-putting texture. The smoky black bean wraps were spicy, but not flavorful spicy, just hot, and the Mexican cabbage that I made to go with it just tasted like cooked cabbage with salsa mixed in.

Plus there are a ton of recipes in this book that don't seem like recipes at all; the no-huevos rancheros, the herbed home fries, which uses all dried spices, (yes I could easily substitute fresh for the dried, but I think a cookbook promoting whole-natural foods would call for the fresh,) and more. The only recipes that seem somewhat interesting are a few of the baked goods and soups, but after my brownie disaster this afternoon, I'm hesitant to try any more of the baked recipes.

Sorry this is more of a review of the book then the actual recipes, but I just feel so jaded after having to remove my review from Amazon.


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 Post subject: Re: Happy Herbivore Cookbook
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:44 pm 
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wow, that's a bummer, df4e! sorry to hear about your amazon experience and the recipes that didn't turn out. if the book isn't dirty from cooking return it!

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 Post subject: Re: Happy Herbivore Cookbook
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:47 pm 
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ijustdiedinside wrote:
wow, that's a bummer, df4e! sorry to hear about your amazon experience and the recipes that didn't turn out. if the book isn't dirty from cooking return it!
I accidentally did spill some water on the brownie page. I'd feel bad returning it after doing that, like it would be really bad karma.


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 Post subject: Re: Happy Herbivore Cookbook
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:56 pm 
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You can always sell it still if even for a dollar or two less than you paid. If people think it's so great, they'll be clamoring to buy your copy.

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 Post subject: Re: Happy Herbivore Cookbook
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:57 pm 
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disneyfav4ever wrote:
ijustdiedinside wrote:
wow, that's a bummer, df4e! sorry to hear about your amazon experience and the recipes that didn't turn out. if the book isn't dirty from cooking return it!
I accidentally did spill some water on the brownie page. I'd feel bad returning it after doing that, like it would be really bad karma.


yeah, i wouldn't return it if it's got water on it, but maybe a trade for another cookbook at paperbackswap.com? i'd just be bummed out after that and probably wouldn't want to keep the book.

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 Post subject: Re: Happy Herbivore Cookbook
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:59 pm 
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Okay, that is so awful and horrible. Good job, Lindsay, you managed to bully someone into deleting a review. I hope you're really proud of yourself. Also, please take all of your talk about not wanting drama and how other cookbook authors (no names mentioned, winkwink) are supposedly doing exactly what you're doing, and shove it. Dividing the community indeed.

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 Post subject: Re: Happy Herbivore Cookbook
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:59 pm 
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disneyfav4ever wrote:
I tried a few recipes from this book today, didn't like them, left a two-star review on Amazon, got flamed for it, and got so worked up over the comments I received, (being told my review was "fake" and that I must not be able to follow a recipe because the book is awesome,) that I deleted my review. I really can't recommend this book to anyone, not only do I not like the recipes I tried, but the comments I got left a serious distaste in my mouth that I'll probably never pick up this book again, let alone buy anything else from this author.

But as far as the actual recipes go, the brownies are somewhat dry, have an odd taste to them, even with me adding extra cocoa, and an off-putting texture. The smoky black bean wraps were spicy, but not flavorful spicy, just hot, and the Mexican cabbage that I made to go with it just tasted like cooked cabbage with salsa mixed in.

Plus there are a ton of recipes in this book that don't seem like recipes at all; the no-huevos rancheros, the herbed home fries, which uses all dried spices, (yes I could easily substitute fresh for the dried, but I think a cookbook promoting whole-natural foods would call for the fresh,) and more. The only recipes that seem somewhat interesting are a few of the baked goods and soups, but after my brownie disaster this afternoon, I'm hesitant to try any more of the baked recipes.

Sorry this is more of a review of the book then the actual recipes, but I just feel so jaded after having to remove my review from Amazon.


I was reading those comments. They were getting a little nuts! I was the person that tried to stick up for you.


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 Post subject: Re: Happy Herbivore Cookbook
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:06 pm 
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ijustdiedinside wrote:
disneyfav4ever wrote:
ijustdiedinside wrote:
wow, that's a bummer, df4e! sorry to hear about your amazon experience and the recipes that didn't turn out. if the book isn't dirty from cooking return it!
I accidentally did spill some water on the brownie page. I'd feel bad returning it after doing that, like it would be really bad karma.


yeah, i wouldn't return it if it's got water on it, but maybe a trade for another cookbook at paperbackswap.com? i'd just be bummed out after that and probably wouldn't want to keep the book.
I may end up giving it to one of my veg*n friends who doesn't really cook that much but is kind of picky, so the recipes may appeal more to her.


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 Post subject: Re: Happy Herbivore Cookbook
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:09 pm 
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denali wrote:
I was reading those comments. They were getting a little nuts! I was the person that tried to stick up for you.
Oh, thank you! I can't believe I got that flamed for just having a different opinion. I really had no idea what internet drama she was referring to until I went over to her blog to read her post, and realized it was linked to me being a fan of Isa's books, since the only other book review I have on Amazon at this point is for Vegan with a Vengeance. I keep on meaning to add more, but time always seems to get away from me, and I like to try several recipes from a book before a write a review.


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 Post subject: Re: Happy Herbivore Cookbook
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:34 pm 
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I saw those posts, DF4E. They were unprofessional and unkind. I am really sorry that happened to you.


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 Post subject: Re: Happy Herbivore Cookbook
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:49 pm 
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It is really sad to see this. I hope you all know this doesn't help veganism in any kind of way -- the in-fighting. I don't understand why PPKers are so quick to tear down every other aspiring chef.

For the record, I've been writing these recipes for years. So no, I didn't plagiarize anything.

I've seen recipes by all sorts of authors (including Isas) that were strikingly similar to other recipes that came before. Do I assume these people copy them? No. I just assume that it's bound to happen -- there are only so many ways to create a recipe for chocolate cake after all.

In fact, if we really want to get down to it, there are several recipes in Isa's new book that have been on my blog for years. But I would never accuse her or anyone... I'm just not that type of person.

When I first was vegan I worshipped Isa. I tried to get into the PPK community and was never welcomed. I guess I wasn't cool enough. So I went off and did my own thing. And now I'm being attacked because why exactly?

BTW, I did low fat and fat-free long before Isa, so... umm??

Regardless, that didn't make me any less excited to see her writing a low fat book. or buying it.

This popped up on twitter re: the whole thing -- how true!
"For cruelty free dieters,vegans sure are cannibalistic."


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 Post subject: Re: Happy Herbivore Cookbook
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:00 am 
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HH, honestly, you've done enough to make yourself look bad. Obviously, you have some kind of issue to work out, and I suggest you work it our via email, not via a public message board. Coming to another cookbook author's website to publicly accuse them of plagiarism is tacky to say the least.

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 Post subject: Re: Happy Herbivore Cookbook
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:07 am 
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Venomous Head of Veganism
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HH, you seriously need to seek help. I don't really have anything to say to you, I believe that my actions in the vegan culinary community speak for themselves. You aren't welcome here, and you owe me, the community (and yourself) an apology.

I'm editing this to add that people can compare for themselves. These recipes are copied from my website and from this author's manuscript respectively. This is not the only example, but you should get the idea.

me wrote:
Spicy Pinto Sausages
Makes 4 Sausages

1/2 cup pinto beans, rinsed and drained

1 cup vegetable broth

1 tablespoon olive oil

2 tablespoons soy sauce

2 cloves garlic, grated (with a microplane, or very finely minced)

1 1/4 cups vital wheat gluten

1/4 cup nutritional yeast

1 1/2 teaspoons fennel seed, crushed

1 teaspoon red pepper flakes

1 teaspoon sweet paprika

1 teaspoon dried oregano

Several dashes fresh black pepper

Before mixing your ingredients, get your steaming apparatus ready, bring water to a full boil. The rest of the recipe comes together very quickly.

Have ready 4 sheets of tin foil. In a large bowl, mash the pinto beans until no whole ones are left. Throw all the other ingredients together in the order listed and mix with a fork. Divide dough into 4 even parts (an easy way to do this: split the dough in half and then into quarters). Place one part of dough into tin foil and mold into about a 5 inch log. Wrap dough in tin foil, like a tootsie roll. Don’t worry too much about shaping it, it will snap into shape while it’s steaming because this recipe is awesome.

Place wrapped sausages in steamer and steam for 40 minutes. That’s it! You can unwrap and enjoy immediately or refrigerate until ready to use. I refrigerated some of mine in wrappers and some out of wrappers to see if there would be a difference, but there really wasn’t. They’re really great sliced up and lightly sauteed, and this weekend I’ll be trying them on pizzas.


The Happy Herbivore Manuscript wrote:
Spicy Sausage
Makes 4 sausages

This sausage is a cross between and andouille sausage and pepperoni. It's great for nibbling, sliced on top of pizza, crumbled into a Frittata, Baked Shells and Cheese, or tossed with a batch of Spicy Greens.

1/2 c cooked or canned pinto beans
1 tbsp fennel seeds
1 tbsp cayenne powder
1 tsp rubbed sage (not powdered)
1 tsp red pepper flakes
1 tsp granulated garlic powder
1 tsp granulated onion powder
1/4 tsp chili powder
1/4 tsp dried thyme
1/4 c TVP
3/4 c vital wheat gluten
1/4 c nutritional yeast
2 tbsp soy sauce
2 tsp hot sauce
1 c water

1. Pulse pinto beans in a food processor until coarse crumbs or mash with a fork and set aside.
2.Grind fennel seeds using a mortar and pestle until a thin powder, then combine with all other spices.
3. Transfer beans and spices to a medium bowl. Add remaining ingredients in order.
4. Stir a few times, then combine ingredients with your hands.
5. Knead for a minute or two to ensure even distribution and to help push the bubbles out (under-kneading may cause a spongy texture).
6. Shape mixture into a ball and break into 4 even segments and set aside.
7. Prepare 4 sheets of aluminum foil, each about 5 inches square.
8. Shape each segment into a log. Do not worry about molding sausages perfectly; the steaming process will help shape them.
9. Wrap dough in foil tightly and twist both ends so it looks like a Tootsie Roll.
10. Place sausages into steamer, cover, and cook 40 minutes.
11. Allow to cool, then refrigerate overnight or at least 4 hours.
12. To use, warm gently in oven or toaster oven for 8 to 10 minutes.


So I'm not actually sure why the author is calling so much attention to this? Please don't make me spend another minute on it.

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 Post subject: Re: Happy Herbivore Cookbook
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:08 am 
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Ps this thread is closed. I'll open it if people wish to discuss this book some other time.

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