Post Punk Kitchen Forum

After some googling, found a variety of vegan blogger when had corresponded with Neutrogena. They got form letter responses that, in short, say that J&J does not test cosmetic products like lotions on animals unless required to do so by law. Other divisions probably do, but Neutrogena seems more-or-less clean, but left themselves a giant CYA shield. I sent them my own email; we'll see if I get any kind of different response since the Naturals line has been out for a year now. Still, I'll be returning the product (haven't opened it, have the receipt).



It's looking like Earth Science is where I'm going...affordability is a BIG factor.

My parents have both had basal cell carcinomas, and I had my first cancery-looking mole removed at age 14 (grew up under the ozone-hole). I don't think I've gone a day without some kind of spf since because I'm paranoid. I recently switched to Brighter by Nature by Origins, and it's the best I've tried, if a bit spendy. It's definitely not greasey, and my skin feels really good after I put it on. It also doesn't smell like lettuce.

Another good option is Ageless Daily Protection SPF30+ by Natio, which is cheaper and cruelty-free.

Skin cancer runs in my family+I'm pale as a ghost. SPF is my friend.

Yes, I definitely NEED a day moisturizer with spf. I'm the palest person I know and my grandfather had skin cancer + I was burned to blister several times in my youth. Damn sun.

I've used spf on my face since I was 18 or so, but it's for the vain reason that it's amazing for preventing premature aging. I don't really worry about the skin cancer thing but I suppose it's a bonus.

I don't think Imperialis is that expensive, to be honest. It's only £11.95/€16.95/USD 23.95 (which is cheap for a Lush mosturiser, especially compared to, say, Gorgeous which is £37.50/€59.95/USD 89.85 (and not vegan!) )

I got this before; I may have to get it again. I didn't not like it or anything, but I wasn't amazed. It'll definitely be my standard if I'm not happy with the Earth Science stuff.

Yeah, Boscia is expensive. Do you think it smells like lettuce though?

(Also, put me in the SPF for vanity club.)

I thought the same thing because you don't need to use a lot of it at one time.

I might give the Philosophy Hope in a Jar oil-free SPF 30 a go. I love the original Hope in a Jar, so I have high hopes this one will work out for daytime use.

For people looking for SPF, I've fallen in love with this stuff: http://www.origins.com/product/3824/103 ... index.tmpl

I'm prone to break outs and have combo skin, and this stuff makes my skin happy. It's light and smells nice. Pricey, but I'm only about 2/3 of the way through a jar I bought a few months ago. I anticipate it to last 6 mos, so under $7/mo isn't bad. As I've gotten older and noticed my skin changing, I'm more willing to splurge on my face (out of pure vanity.)

ETA: I might upgrade to the Brighter By Nature that mendelian mentioned next time. I did like it more when I tried samples of both because it seemed to absorb a bit better, but I wasn't quite ready to spend over $40 on my face. Now I know how long a jar lasts though, I might make the switch, plus it has a little more SPF.

Oh, it's so worth $40. I use Brighter By Nature and it's lasted me since... June? Possibly earlier? of last year. You don't need a ton, and I haven't had an issue with dry winter face skin while using it, which is a miracle in itself. My face feels incredible when I use it, and I really like knowing I have solid SPF protection on my face during the day, every day.

Edited to note that I do have combination, acne-prone skin, and this does not make me break out. Also, I used to use Lush's Enzymion, but this was LOADS nicer for nearly the same (expensive) price.

So, I heard back from Neutrogena. In my opinion, the current version of their form letter is much more of an indictment than their old one. I will be avoiding ANYTHING from J&J.

This is the email they sent me. *SOME PEOPLE MAY FIND IT DISTRESSING*


Dear Sally:

Thank you for contacting Johnson & Johnson. It is always important to hear from our customers and we appreciate the time you have taken to contact us.

The ingredients in our companies' nonprescription skin and hair care products have been proven safe historically, so instead of using laboratory animals to assess the safety of these formulations, the companies perform a number of predictive tests in humans. Any new ingredients, however, would require appropriate safety validation that might include laboratory animals.

Otherwise, as health-care products manufacturers, Johnson & Johnson companies have a responsibility to assure the safety of their products for intended use and in the event of accidental misuse. The primary means of providing this assurance continues to be the judicious and ethical use of laboratory animals and in vitro (test tube) tests.

Johnson & Johnson companies use numerous in vitro or "alternative" methods in testing new compounds and new product formulations. In fact, the companies currently use more than 160 different alternative tests in research, and we are spending more than $92 million each year in using and developing non-animal tests. [color=#BF0000]Ultimately, however, testing with a minimum number of animals is necessary to fully assure safety.

The companies use as few animals as possible, mostly mice and rats, and when safety is established, new product formulations are no longer tested. We use tests other than the classical LD-50 -- such as the "limit dose method," which requires one-fourth or fewer laboratory animals. During eye safety tests, our formulations are so mild and gentle that there is no need to restrain animals, and for skin irritation studies we rely heavily on human volunteers or non-traditional tests that require fewer animals.

While there currently is not a single validated alternative test that can fully replace whole animal testing, Johnson & Johnson companies are committed to seeking alternatives through internal efforts as well as by supporting studies at outside research facilities. As alternative forms are validated, please be assured that Johnson & Johnson companies will take the lead in implementing them in their testing programs.

To learn more about our policies, we invite you to see more information on our website:
http://www.jnj.com/community/policies/a ... esting.htm

Again, thank you for your interest in Johnson & Johnson.

Darryl M.
Consumer Care Center

011764165A[/color]

All emphasis is mine. The red phrases I found to be particular ignorant bullshiitake. Really? This is lotion and cleaning products. You can't even make the drug argument of needing to determine the range between therapeutic and lethal. Grrr.

Seriously! Here's my interpretation:

Dear Sally,
As you know, we are a leading healthcare company and must do research to keep our customers safe in the event of product misuse- applying lotion to your skin is complicated stuff! We are committed to using alternatives to animal testing and currently use over 160 different alternative testing practices but there is not a single validated test that can fully replace animal testing as a whole so we here at J&J only perform ethical animal tests.

Please don't hate us because we test on animals,
-J&J

California Baby's Everyday Lotions are amazing. Vegan, easy to find (I purchased a bottle at Target!), and pretty damn affordable for a nice, basic moisturizer. I use the Super Sensitive, my skin is fussy and dry and it works very well. If I feel that it is too light sometimes, mostly when I haven't been drinking enough water, I add a drop of jojoba oil and tada! Perfect.
I also mix it with my foundation for a nice TM :)

I'm a derma-e convert. It's pricey but in my old age it's worth it. Reverse those wrinkles! I use the day and night moisturizers and Amazon always has good deals.

http://www.amazon.com/derma-Peptides-Do ... -1-catcorr
http://www.amazon.com/derma-Hyaluronic- ... -3-catcorr

I love derma-e! I'm using their Pycnogenol and Hyaluronic Acid Eye Cream at night and it's amazing. It plumps all the fine lines I have around my eyes from scowling all the time and squinting because even with an up to date prescription in my glasses I still can't see too great. I used their Very Clear Cleansing Scrub too, and it helped keep my adult acne at bay. Plus I like the packaging because it just looks so clinical and hygienic.

It does smell kind of green to me, but I've never thought "lettuce" as I was applying lotion.

I got a really good price off of amazon, and then derma-e canceled my order and jacked the price up. I guess someone entered the price wrong.

And then I found a jar for 50% off at my health food store! I like anything that says something about vitamin c on it, as far as I can tell it means thick and rich, but not greasy or heavy.

Boscia is expensive, but to me it's worth it. I also use this: http://www.drugstore.com/derma-e-ester- ... x/qxp83732.
I have combination skin and I'm very prone to break outs and black heads. I use their oil free day and night moisturizer (the day one has spf 15). Putting myself on a regimen with good products has really made all the difference. I wash my face with a paraben free face wash for sensitive skin, remove any excess dirt/cleaning product with alcohol free toner, apply the serum and then a layer of Boscia's oil-free moisturizer. I know I sound like a stupid commercial, but my skin has never looked better.
And regarding smell: I don't think Boscia's smell is that strong, but then again, don't really care what a product smells like, as long as it works. As soon as its absorbed, you don't smell a thing.

Boscia is expensive, but to me it's worth it. I also use this: http://www.drugstore.com/derma-e-ester- ... x/qxp83732.
I have combination skin and I'm very prone to break outs and black heads. I use their oil free day and night moisturizer (the day one has spf 15). Putting myself on a regimen with good products has really made all the difference. I wash my face with a paraben free face wash for sensitive skin, remove any excess dirt/cleaning product with alcohol free toner, apply the serum and then a layer of Boscia's oil-free moisturizer. I know I sound like a stupid commercial, but my skin has never looked better.
And regarding smell: I don't think Boscia's smell is that strong, but then again, don't really care what a product smells like, as long as it works. As soon as its absorbed, you don't smell a thing.

Bump. Does anyone have any day moisturizer with SPF recommendations that aren't Trader Joes? We don't have TJs in Canada.