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 Post subject: Re: Leather and ethics
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:45 pm 
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http://www.bebenroth.com/vegan%20motorc ... guide.html


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 Post subject: Re: Leather and ethics
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:16 pm 
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SassyOh wrote:
Now that I have a motorcycle I'm keeping my pregan thrifted Gripfasts. I feel safer in them. Not to derail, but is there a comparable vegan option for motorcycle boots? I'm nervous about synthetics melting into what would be left of my skin if I were to get in a really nasty accident. Maybe I'm not using the right keywords or something, because all I've really found is leather or pleather.



There is/was a motorcyclist topic viewtopic.php?f=4&t=12707

I have Sidi vertigo rain motorcycle racing boots. Sidi is known for good quality motorcyle boots and most of what they sell is synthetic.





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 Post subject: Re: Leather and ethics
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:30 pm 
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Thank you both, I appreciate the info! Maybe I'm being a little hysterical with the it-will-melt-into-my-skin stuff :)


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 Post subject: Re: Leather and ethics
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:12 pm 
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vijita wrote:
I'm having a hard time with ice skates. I need new ones, and don't want to buy second-hand. However, I can't afford the vegan versions. So I've just been sitting on not buying skates for 6-7 years. I miss skating! I wish I was Natalie Portman for a day.


Hockey products have changed a lot during the hiatus I took from playing. But when I take a look at what skates are available now, they mostly look synthetic to me. Where have you been looking for them?

Also, the reason I have a bit of discomfort over the use of even second-hand leather items is that other people don't know that what you're wearing is second-hand. And being seen in leather contributes to the normalisation of leather usage, especially if those who see you wear it know that you're vegan. On the flipside, I still have a pair of leather cycling shoes that came with a bike I bought off of Craigslist so I am a giant hypocrite.


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 Post subject: Re: Leather and ethics
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:55 pm 
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i have no problem buying second hand leather


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 Post subject: Re: Leather and ethics
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:23 pm 
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broseph wrote:
vijita wrote:
I'm having a hard time with ice skates. I need new ones, and don't want to buy second-hand. However, I can't afford the vegan versions. So I've just been sitting on not buying skates for 6-7 years. I miss skating! I wish I was Natalie Portman for a day.


Hockey products have changed a lot during the hiatus I took from playing. But when I take a look at what skates are available now, they mostly look synthetic to me. Where have you been looking for them?


You know honestly, I just haven't really been looking because I (wrongly) assumed they were all leather. I've never played in a league or anything, just tend to pass a puck around for kicks at rink, so I wasn't too informed.


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 Post subject: Re: Leather and ethics
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:45 pm 
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vijita wrote:
broseph wrote:
vijita wrote:
I'm having a hard time with ice skates. I need new ones, and don't want to buy second-hand. However, I can't afford the vegan versions. So I've just been sitting on not buying skates for 6-7 years. I miss skating! I wish I was Natalie Portman for a day.


Hockey products have changed a lot during the hiatus I took from playing. But when I take a look at what skates are available now, they mostly look synthetic to me. Where have you been looking for them?


You know honestly, I just haven't really been looking because I (wrongly) assumed they were all leather. I've never played in a league or anything, just tend to pass a puck around for kicks at rink, so I wasn't too informed.


I may be wrong, myself. I haven't had a close look to see if the skates I'm thinking of have any leather details that aren't immediately visible. I've been trying to do more research online, but the information is hard to find. It seems like skate makers, unlike shoe manufacturers, don't have to disclose the materials they use. Next time I get my skates sharpened, I'll have another look.


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 Post subject: Re: Leather and ethics
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:20 pm 
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I just feel like if a vegan ethical ice-skating company were to pop up that'd be awesome. Like good quality skates. But then I wouldn't be able to afford them so I'd be back at square one. Hence my (reluctant) despondency.


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 Post subject: Re: Leather and ethics
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:32 pm 
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There are lots of awesome quality skates that are vegan. What brands are you looking at?


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 Post subject: Re: Leather and ethics
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:33 pm 
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SassyOh wrote:
Now that I have a motorcycle I'm keeping my pregan thrifted Gripfasts. I feel safer in them. Not to derail, but is there a comparable vegan option for motorcycle boots? I'm nervous about synthetics melting into what would be left of my skin if I were to get in a really nasty accident. Maybe I'm not using the right keywords or something, because all I've really found is leather or pleather.


Sidi makes some vegan boots. I think Veg Eric has some. Ive been using my ancient vegan Doc Martens. They probably would melt, but so far they are ok if I touch the pipes.

I'm trying to find some vegan motorcycle gloves, but haven't. I ripped up my vegan pair (and my hand) when I dropped my bike in a gravel parking lot. I was stopped, but just sliding my hands a foot across the gravel was enough.

I bought a Harley jacket off Craigslist from a woman who was going to ride on the back, bought a whole expensive rig out, decided she hated it after wearing the stuff twice, and sold it really cheap. I know there are good synthetics, but leather is still safer and I'd rather have the thick leather if I'm riding my bike on the DC beltway. If I'd had to buy new though, I'd have gone with a synthetic.

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 Post subject: Re: Leather and ethics
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:04 am 
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lavawitch wrote:
Sidi makes some vegan boots. I think Veg Eric has some. Ive been using my ancient vegan Doc Martens. They probably would melt, but so far they are ok if I touch the pipes.

I'm trying to find some vegan motorcycle gloves, but haven't. I ripped up my vegan pair (and my hand) when I dropped my bike in a gravel parking lot. I was stopped, but just sliding my hands a foot across the gravel was enough.

I bought a Harley jacket off Craigslist from a woman who was going to ride on the back, bought a whole expensive rig out, decided she hated it after wearing the stuff twice, and sold it really cheap. I know there are good synthetics, but leather is still safer and I'd rather have the thick leather if I'm riding my bike on the DC beltway. If I'd had to buy new though, I'd have gone with a synthetic.


I'll check out those boots, thanks!
I have a nice armored textile jacket that's leatherless, and I feel pretty safe in it, but if I hadn't found it I would have gone with used leather for the same reasons as you. Eventually I'll get some riding pants for longer rides. I haven't found non-leather gloves I trust. I'm using my Alpine Stars I bought a hundred years ago. I need some glove liners :(


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 Post subject: Re: Leather and ethics
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:36 am 
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I'm paranoid! My jacket is armored to the max. I was in a potentially nasty accident with my dad as a kid--a truck ran us off the road into the desert, so I am an ATGATT girl for sure.

I admit that the jacket depresses me though. Buying second hand isn't really a "free pass" or anything. It is still leather, so I certainly do feel hypocritical about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Leather and ethics
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:47 am 
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lavawitch wrote:

I admit that the jacket depresses me though. Buying second hand isn't really a "free pass" or anything. It is still leather, so I certainly do feel hypocritical about it.


My boots make me feel hypocritical too, secondhand or not. As others have said though, you have to do what you think is right--neither of us wants to give up riding because our gear makes us feel unsafe, so we're taking the best approach we can. I do buy most everything second hand to reduce waste anyway; for me, thrifted leather is at least less wasteful than buying new gear.

I feel comfortable in my jacket for the type of riding I do, but after seeing pics of my friend's fancy armored leathers that were worn paper thin after he slid an obscene distance at a 70 miles per hour, I'm wary about wearing it on long-distance, freeway trips. I barely get out of second gear riding around town (I'm a new rider), so I think my textile will protect me just fine, but when I get to higher speeds I might want leather. But then I look at all the stuff racers wear and it's frequently synthetic, and I think that might not be so bad--they're riding at freakish speeds and the risk of losing their skin is much higher!


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 Post subject: Re: Leather and ethics
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:02 am 
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Really? A college friend who races bikes told me that they never wear synthetics at the track. He wears textile when he is riding around town, but never racing. Talking to him about gear made me less comfortable going synthetic, but if I had t had experience sliding as a kid, I don't think I'd have thought twice about textile.

I'm a newrider too, a d actually am. It doing anything other than sadly sitting on my Harley I. The garage right now. I can't do much until physical therapy helps my leg get stronger.

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 Post subject: Re: Leather and ethics
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:07 am 
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Well that's one rider and maybe he rides with synthetics but being around the racing scene for some time and doing some work at a ship I can say a fair amount of people do wear synthetics, especially boots the Sidi racing boots are one of the to go to brands and they are made of lorica.


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 Post subject: Re: Leather and ethics
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:41 am 
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SassyOh wrote:
my friend's fancy armored leathers that were worn paper thin after he slid an obscene distance at a 70 miles per hour


Leather comes in different qualities just like synthetic fibers do.
I've seen a picture of some ones (fancy) kangaroo leather suit which was also worn through after sliding for a really long distance on the track.

I think that when you drive on the public road, you shouldn't be too concerned about sliding over the road surface.
(I wear synthetic with, if I know I'm going to drive fast, a top quality back protector under my jacket)

It's more likely that you won't slide far but will "come in contact with a stationary object".
Leather doesn't do much when you fly into a tree or lamppost etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Leather and ethics
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:51 pm 
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Veg_Eric wrote:


It's more likely that you won't slide far but will "come in contact with a stationary object".
Leather doesn't do much when you fly into a tree or lamppost etc.


Excellent point!
It's easy to get spooked when you see the photos of really bad crashes, but it's also easy to overlook all the variables (quality of gear being just one of them).


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 Post subject: Re: Leather and ethics
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:47 pm 
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I never come on here anymore, but doing some research to redo my website that was posted earlier by someone else I cam across this thread.
I do not claim to be the "expert" on this stuff but I worked in the motorcycle industry for many, many years, used to road race, tons of street riding and now I race offroad.
The Sidi's are as good as it gets for on road, or road race protection. A large percentage of their boots are vegan.
The only vegan glove that I would consider to be really safe is the MotoPort Kevlar Gloves http://www.motoport.com/index.php?optio ... &Itemid=15
As for jackets, pants, suits etc. I think that non-leather is usually a compromise, but not that much of one. Yes some of the stuff could melt to your skin in a real high speed crash, but I doubt it would be an issue. When you crash you often slide on the padded parts and you are not going to wear through to your skin. Plus if you crash at a high enough speed on the street you are more likely to hit something before melting through. That said pre-vegan I crashed around 120mph or so on the track wearing racing leathers, and slid on my backside for so long that my bicycle shorts melted to my rear.
The only non-leather suit that I know of that is OK'ed by all of the sanctioning bodies is the Motorport GP1 Kevlar racing suit.


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 Post subject: Re: Leather and ethics
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:51 pm 
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Thanks! That's all good information.

Everyone I know who has been in a crash slid. Not counting drunk people who ran into lamp posts.

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 Post subject: Re: Leather and ethics
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:29 pm 
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lavawitch wrote:
Thanks! That's all good information.

Everyone I know who has been in a crash slid. Not counting drunk people who ran into lamp posts.

The question is the length of the slide, yes everyone slides but at 40 mph, when you crash you usually dissipate speed before hitting the ground. I doubt you will slide long enough to tear through a decent cordura jacket.
Of course the decision is up to the individual rider.
FWIW I have only ever had one street fall. I would estimate that I was doing 30ish when I hit the pavement, and none of my gear had any serious damage.


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 Post subject: Re: Leather and ethics
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:26 pm 
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vijita wrote:
I just feel like if a vegan ethical ice-skating company were to pop up that'd be awesome. Like good quality skates. But then I wouldn't be able to afford them so I'd be back at square one. Hence my (reluctant) despondency.


I just took a closer look at the selection where I get my skates sharpened, and the skates in the Bauer Vapor series and the Easton Synergy series both look to me like they use synthetics in place of leather. The tongues in both are felt, though, so they could contain wool content. I didn't even consider that before.


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 Post subject: Re: Leather and ethics
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:13 am 
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I don't know why but most of the motorcycle riders I've seen near me look to be wearing synthetic jackets, I'd assume they were Kevlar or some sort. Except for the guys you see going 80 (or more) on the freeway that are wearing t-shirts.

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 Post subject: Re: Leather and ethics
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:10 pm 
Calls "cavemen" on that
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I went vegan (from vegetarian) like ummm...3.5 years ago? for a long time I was a 'dietary vegan' but in the last year I stopped buying clothes and cosmetics and stuff that are from animal products. Lemme tell you, this has been MUCH harder than changing my diet.

I have no problem personally with using old non-vegan stuff. Good shoes especially. Seems silly to throw them out. But I know that some vegans (many in fact, just not on this board) would have a HUGE problem with a vegan wearing a leather belt. But whatever. It's my life. If that makes me only 98% vegan, that's fine with me. I am sure that my vegan powers will only be gone for a short while. I can deal with that.

Just this past weekend, I decided to get rid of my leather handbags. I kind of have a handbag problem. When I was a home-renter and made good money, I would buy TONS of designer handbags online, discount stores, thrift store etc. Had at one point almost 100 of them. Got rid of a lot when I bought a house a couple of years ago, sold them online.

The reason I got rid of them this time around is because, unlike shoes, they FEEL like leather. I just couldnt get over the fact that I was carrying around a skin bag. And I was always touching it and stuff. So I found a great Matt + Nat sale last month, bought a bunch of bags, and sold some of my leather ones at a high-end thrift store. Got $122 for them. Used that all on (vegan) clothes. Win-win. I still have some really expensive off-runway BCBG ones that I am going to try and sell on eBay. Think I can make a few hundred from them. I also donated a ton of medium expensive ones that the thrift store didn't want to a women's shelter. I feel GREAT about all this :)

Oh, I my car still has leather interior. I can't afford a new car. No way haha.

It's all about whatever you feel is right. The vegan police might come after you. So what? They are all corrupt anyways.


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 Post subject: Re: Leather and ethics
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:15 pm 
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I have a lot of pregan leather and wool that I continue to use. As I buy most of my clothes used, I continue to buy used wool sweaters, blankets, etc. I wouldn't accept anything new made from animal parts, but compassionate ethics are only part of why I am vegan, environmental issues are also hugely important to me, so I prioritize not wasting and not buying things made from petroleum products as much as I prioritize not enslaving and torturing animals. I think it's a personal choice and when I run into the "I'm more vegan than thou," crowd while carrying my circa 1970 leather handbag, I don't really bother with their demands that I sell it or forfeit my V card. The whole vegan definition is to avoid cruelty to the best of one's ability, in my mind that includes cruelty to the planet and the third world laborers who make cheap vegan shoes. So, I think continue to use and re-use what you have and let the haters hate, you know where your heart is!

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 Post subject: Re: Leather and ethics
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:06 pm 
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Chicki wrote:
It's all about whatever you feel is right. The vegan police might come after you. So what? They are all corrupt anyways.


If you wear leather you are not vegan. You may eat a vegan diet, but you're not vegan.


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