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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:04 pm 
Wears Pleather Undies
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It is? Dang! That sucks, I had no idea! :( Back to the drawing board once I use up my pureology stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:45 pm 
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Right, I know. Seems like at some point or another every company I like ends up being bought by an evil one. I am really bummed about Origins. I love their products.


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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:56 am 
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Ugh! Totally! I was super stoked to try some korres products
Until I discovered that Johnson and Johnson owned them!
Boo! I have a few skincare brands I rotate between that I
Love but I want to make sure they aren't owned by a shady
Company. I will definitely post what I find out!


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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:45 am 
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lipstickrogue wrote:
Ugh! Totally! I was super stoked to try some korres products
Until I discovered that Johnson and Johnson owned them!

Ack! I didn't know that. Why are all seemingly OK companies owned by animal testing pond scum? I have multiple lists of who tests and who doesn't and they definitely do not agree with each other. I try to stick to the brands that are on several lists, but it is just so difficult to navigate. It's frustrating!


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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:27 am 
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Korres is owned by Johnson and Johnson!? DAMNIT ALL TO HELL! (I really like their lip butter.) OH WELL. mustards.

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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:42 pm 
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This is the most depressing thread, ever.


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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:36 pm 
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I think the Korres and Johnson & Johnson must be fairly recent. But, a few brands that (to the best of my knowledge) aren't owned by a larger evil company that tests are Boscia and Ren Skincare and (to the best of my knowledge) they do not test and all products in the ranges are vegan (with the exception hydra calm youth defense serum from Ren). All the products from both lines I have tried are amazing but Boscia has been a mainstay for me the past few years. There is hope you guys!


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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:20 pm 
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alice1drland wrote:
This is the most depressing thread, ever.


Yup.

I'm trying out different stuff to replace the Aveda hair stuff I've been using for years. Hopefully between Lavera and Lush I might find something that works. I have no idea where to even start looking for makeup to replace all my MAC stuff though. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:52 pm 
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paprikapapaya wrote:
Aveda hair stuff is some of the only stuff that works on my hair.


This for both Aveda and Origins. I am so torn. Since this news broke I've been trying sample after sample of skin care products and hair care I can get my hands on and my rosacea is back as well as the horrific acne. I'm at a loss of what to do. This is so upsetting to me on so many levels.

Next it will be Urban Decay and I may as well just go Sasquatch in the forest because without good skin care, hair care and pretty colors I am scary. My students have already been commenting on how terrible my skin and hair have been looking which is hurtful. I hate 7th graders sometimes.

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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:53 pm 
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Oh assilembob, that's terrible! <good thoughts>

Ever since I started this thread, I've been doing some research to replace my Aveda, MAC, and Origins stuff. I've come up with some options that are all Leaping Bunny certified:

For higher-quality hair care:
http://www.giovannicosmetics.com/ (they also have a new skin care line that I'm interested in trying)

Nice lipglosses:
http://store.veganessentials.com/organi ... p3266.aspx
Also, OCC (http://www.occmakeup.com/lips.html) (not LB certified, but says cruelty-free)

For dry skin care:
SkiKai Borage Facial Skin Care (http://www.shikai.com/products/borage.htm -- scroll down)

Various vegan lip stuff (not LB certified, but says it's cruelty-free):
Silk Naturals (not all of their stuff is vegan, but they have a vegan section, with lipsticks and gloss sticks) http://www.silknaturals.com

Not sure if this will help anyone... but maybe. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:07 pm 
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Thanks, marmoset. I think it helps to remember that we do have options, even if it royally blows that options are being taken away.

assilembob, I'm sorry. I really feel you. I'm terribly bummed about Aveda. I have really problematic hair that I was teased and bullied for endlessly growing up and Aveda is one of those things that I chalk up to being self-care for me, it makes me hair nice and makes me feel good about myself. It is pissing me off so much to think they've gone back 50 years into the dark ages of animal testing.

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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:37 am 
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Honestly, there's worse news coming. REACH legislation means that anything sold/produced in Europe will have to have its ingredients animal tested. It peas all over the Cosmetics Directive so there's no legal grounds to stop it.


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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:05 am 
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I'm so confused; I thought Europe was going to ban animal testing? Gah!

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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:12 pm 
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I wrote a comment on Aveda's facebook asking for clarification on any changes to their animal testing policy, I was very polite. They DELETED MY COMMENT! I mean, really? I think that's a pretty clear sign they don't give a shiitake. So I just wrote another comment. haha.

ETA: They just deleted my second comment!

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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:13 pm 
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Holy Cow! What the haps, Aveda?!

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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:14 pm 
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The Cosmetics Directive bans animal testing, but it's a) very week and b) constantly being pushed back - it is not yet law.

REACH demands that any chemical sold in amounts greater than one metric tonne need a safety data profile. Manufacturers who import, manufacture or supply the same chemical make up a group of SEIF, responsible for providing safety data. If there is no data for tests on vertebrates and invertebrates, the manufacturers of that chemical must either conduct themselves or fund externally animal tests to compile the data. Unlike the Cosmetics Directive, REACH is already law and the first testing might take place as soon as next year.

Can you tell I've been learning this stuff for work?


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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:17 pm 
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Thank you for the explanation, cornflowers. That's really disappointing to learn about.

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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:17 pm 
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Aveda and Origins themselves are still on the Peta no-test list, right? It's just that their parent company is being evil? I realize this is still a problem, I just want to be sure I'm understanding the situation.

In any case, it really really sucks. Like someone else said, we are supposed to have MORE vegan companies as time goes on, not fewer. I don't want to have to tell people "You should really buy vegan makeup! You'll have to order it online though, from this company you've never heard of."

Plus pretty much everything I use on my hair and face is Origins, Aveda, MAC, and Smashbox.


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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:23 pm 
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ndpittman wrote:
Thank you for the explanation, cornflowers. That's really disappointing to learn about.


Isn't it just. Such a massive step backwards.


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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:43 pm 
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paprikapapaya wrote:
I wrote a comment on Aveda's facebook asking for clarification on any changes to their animal testing policy, I was very polite. They DELETED MY COMMENT! I mean, really? I think that's a pretty clear sign they don't give a shiitake. So I just wrote another comment. haha.

ETA: They just deleted my second comment!


I posted in the nail polish thread about how Zoya deleted a comment I made, so I made a second comment saying that I didn't use foul language and wasn't rude, so there was no need to delete my comment, and deleting comments says a lot about a company. That one stayed. Usually one person is in charge of a fan page for a company so it's really them and not the company, so i'd try a third time and say what I said, and if they delete it again, email the company and complain.

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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:10 pm 
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Does this also mean that any cosmetics company which is selling products in China is required to test? Are some companies opting out of selling in China because of this?

I would really love to see a non-PETA press release information source for this.

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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:14 pm 
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Vantine wrote:
I would really love to see a non-PETA press release information source for this.


Me too. I only really care about Aveda in the lot, so I've been waiting for them to answer me directly, because I don't really trust that PETA tells the whole story.

On Aveda's website, they still say they don't test
http://www.aveda.com/discover/index.tmp ... the_change

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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:58 pm 
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I just read the article in Ecouterre (http://www.ecouterre.com/avon-estee-lau ... n-animals/), and I must say, Peta's claims sound pretty off the wall. Maybe I'm reading wrong, but it sounds like Estee Lauder is conducting animal testing in China, where such tests are required by law, but not in any other countries. Of course, that still sucks, but that's a rather different situation in my eyes than "they just started animal testing for the heck of it," which is sort of what Peta seems to be implying.

I must say I'm embarrassed that it took me this long to read more than just this thread about it, but having read the Ecouterre article, I'm not sure how I feel about it. On the one hand, I do want to support vegan companies that are unequivocal in their no-testing stance. On the other hand, I'm not sure that a withdrawal of vegan support en masse from Aveda and Origins will really help the animals. Maybe it will, but I could also see it having an adverse affect, where there is no longer a vegan market incentivizing the creation and marketing of vegan, cruelty free products.

I'm going to think more about it, I guess.

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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:59 pm 
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Such a frustrating situation.....ughh.

As for deleting comments.....that used to happen to me all the time for the government of Canada's youth drug "education" facebook page. They eventually blocked me from the page, which while irritating felt like an accomplishment in the drug policy world.

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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:31 pm 
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I think that this is one of those decisions that everyone has to make for themselves. They are testing based upon the law, not corporate policy. Some of the companies are trying to get China to change their laws.

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