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 Post subject: Contact Lenses and Animal Testing
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:22 am 
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Hey peeps! I've got eyeball questions!

Do you wear contacts?
What brand do you use?
Have you tried Day Soft?
Do you like them?

I've been using Acuvue for as long as I can remember and for some reason never put 2 and 2 together that they are part of Johnson & Johnson and they test pretty much everything on animals, contacts included. Luckily for me I have an eye appointment in a few hours. Day Soft has confirmed that they are cruelty free but I'm not sure they are a brand that eye drs usually keep in stock so I'll probably be ordering some.

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 Post subject: Re: Contact Lenses and Animal Testing
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:49 am 
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I do, I use some kind of Acuvue and I assumed they were in some way bad, but glasses give me headaches and as a migraine sufferer all headaches lead to migraines, so . . .

If the Day Softs are good, let us know! That'd be cool.

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 Post subject: Re: Contact Lenses and Animal Testing
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:44 pm 
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I do wear contacts. My eyes are finicky so there are only a few kinds of contacs I can wear (and glasses don't work for me either). Since they stopped making the ones I've used for years, I switched over to new ones early this year. Not as good as the old ones, but they are working OK so far. The new ones are made by CIBA Vision.

From their FAQ:
To what extent does CIBA Vision use animals in its product testing?
CIBA Vision has invested a great deal of effort to eliminate animal testing during its routine product development process. Our innovative research methods involve testing our products on cells, not animals. Certain regulatory authorities still require certain animal tests as part of their product approval processes. The majority of the animal testing that CIBA Vision does is to fulfill these requirements.

Sigh.


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 Post subject: Re: Contact Lenses and Animal Testing
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:25 pm 
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I wear contacts sometimes, and I didn't even think it was possible to get any non-animal tested, at this point! However, I am very, very near sighted and I have astigmatism, so I dunno if they offer lenses for that. I will have to look into this.
I currently wear the Acuvue advance for asitgmatism (with or without hydraclear..I can't remember).

Do you all use the Clear Conscience solution? I did for a couple years, but it didn't seem to work well at all with my new lenses. It was making them gunky and unwearable after a few wears.


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 Post subject: Re: Contact Lenses and Animal Testing
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:38 pm 
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Well, I just got back from the eye doctor and they had never heard of Day Soft, probably because they aren't sold by the big companies(Bausch & Lomb, J&J, etc) I mentioned my concerns about animal testing to her and she was more than happy to look into them for me to see if they could get trial pairs but it might take some time so I just had her send me home with a weeks worth of Acuvue dailies and I *just* finished ordering from Day Soft so hopefully my new contacts will be here before I leave for Cali next week.

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 Post subject: Re: Contact Lenses and Animal Testing
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:55 pm 
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allychristine wrote:

Do you all use the Clear Conscience solution? I did for a couple years, but it didn't seem to work well at all with my new lenses. It was making them gunky and unwearable after a few wears.


I used it for a few months and got multiple eye infections during that time. I don't know if I had a bad bottle, or if I somehow contaminated it myself, or if it was just a coincidence....anyways, I stopped using it. I honestly never gave any thought to my actual lenses. I use CooperVision Bioinfinity Toric for astigmatism. I just emailed 'em!


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 Post subject: Re: Contact Lenses and Animal Testing
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:06 pm 
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morecuminthancumin wrote:
allychristine wrote:

Do you all use the Clear Conscience solution? I did for a couple years, but it didn't seem to work well at all with my new lenses. It was making them gunky and unwearable after a few wears.


I used it for a few months and got multiple eye infections during that time. I don't know if I had a bad bottle, or if I somehow contaminated it myself, or if it was just a coincidence....anyways, I stopped using it. I honestly never gave any thought to my actual lenses. I use CooperVision Bioinfinity Toric for astigmatism. I just emailed 'em!



that sucks. at least with dailies i wont have to worry about using solution. And I am finally having new lenses put in my glasses so I can wear those more often too.

And P.S. morecumin - I now have More Human than Human stuck in my head! I love Rob Zombie and I love your username!

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 Post subject: Re: Contact Lenses and Animal Testing
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:29 pm 
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VeganFoodRocks wrote:

that sucks. at least with dailies i wont have to worry about using solution. And I am finally having new lenses put in my glasses so I can wear those more often too.



Yeah, and I hate to badmouth any cruelty-free company, especially one competing in a market that's almost exclusively animal-testing. But yeah, it was no fun. I've hard of lots of people using it with no problems, though! Dailies must be nice! The packaging sucks, but if you're not using solution, it's probably a wash, eh?

VeganFoodRocks wrote:

And P.S. morecumin - I now have More Human than Human stuck in my head! I love Rob Zombie and I love your username!


Ha, thanks! I have it stuck in my head, too.


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 Post subject: Re: Contact Lenses and Animal Testing
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:04 pm 
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I wear Acuvue Oasys and I've never tried the cruelty-free solution. I have some etching on my corneas which my optometrist says is from preservatives in off-brand solutions. She's probably a tool of the machine, but I can actually SEE the effects when I'm looking at a blank, light-colored expanse and I don't want it getting worse. So I'm back on Alcon.

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 Post subject: Re: Contact Lenses and Animal Testing
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:19 am 
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I hadn't even thought about contacts being tested! The PPK opens my mind to so much.
I wear Acuvue too, but I really really would like to get pretty glasses. I can't though (unless I want 2 inches thick lenses) so I need to look into laser-fixing my problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Contact Lenses and Animal Testing
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:17 am 
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Wishwishwish I could afford lasik. That would be one of the most amazing things, ever. I've been wearing lenses since 1st grade!

So, are there any other CF solution options? Since the Clear Conscience didn't seem to be working, I broke down and purchased some Optifree. :( Ugh.
Maybe it was just all in my head and CC works fine..


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 Post subject: Re: Contact Lenses and Animal Testing
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:28 am 
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Anek wrote:
I hadn't even thought about contacts being tested! The PPK opens my mind to so much.
I wear Acuvue too, but I really really would like to get pretty glasses. I can't though (unless I want 2 inches thick lenses) so I need to look into laser-fixing my problem.

When was the last time you had glasses? The lenses for my -8 were about 4 mm... And that was like 12 years ago they might have even thinner versions now,

Interesting to see the dominance of Acuvue. I've never used them myself. I use monthly contacts since dailies don't work as well for me. And I use Alcon solution, too, since it's what they told me to use. I regard my contacts and lenscare pretty much as a medical issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Contact Lenses and Animal Testing
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:09 pm 
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i have acuvue 2 lenses, and i use the clear conscience solution. i've been using it for years, and haven't had any problems with the solution at all.. so i guess i should consider myself lucky. sorry it bothers some of your eyes. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Contact Lenses and Animal Testing
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:45 pm 
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Whether all contact lenses are tested on animals depends on how they are classified as a medical device by the FDA. They are probably class II (class I being a toothbrush, class III being a pacemaker) because they're not high-risk, but I can't find out definitively from the FDA website.

FDA wrote:
FDA has reviewed premarket notification submissions (510(k)s) under section 510(k) of the Act (21 U.S.C. 360(k)) and premarket approval applications (PMAs) under section 515 of the Act (21 U.S.C. 360(e)) for most corrective and non-corrective contact lenses marketed in the United States, including certain decorative contact lenses intended to change the appearance of a normal eye. All currently approved or cleared decorative contact lenses are legally marketed only as prescription devices (21 CFR 801.109).
Thus, all contact lenses in commercial distribution, including decorative contact lenses that are non-corrective, require either a cleared 510(k), an approved PMA, or an exemption for investigational use (IDE).


If they considered class III, the FDA requires all class III medical devices to be tested in animals prior to being tested in humans and prior to being given pre-market approval. Even if that specific iteration of the lens wasn't tested on animals, the polymer (plastic) it is made from probably was, at some point.

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 Post subject: Re: Contact Lenses and Animal Testing
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 3:00 pm 
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Hm. I finally found that most contact lenses and classified as class II medical devices, so they only require a 510k submission and are not subject to the much more rigorous requirements of the premarket approval process.
However, this page leads me to believe that it is standard for all contact lens devices to be tested on rabbit eyes to determine biocompatibility per ISO 9394:1998. ISO standards basically regulate how you have to do your shiitake to sell your product in member countries. The US is a member country, so it subjects itself to ISO's standards.
You can buy a copy of this particular standard from Amazon.com and this is its description:
Quote:
This International Standard specifies an in vivo method of test to assess the ocular safety of contact lenses and contact lens care products. The test assesses the degree of irritation to the ocular tissue produced by the device under test. The test method is described in application to rabbit eyes.

It sounds like all lenses are subject to this standard, so nothing is safe, so to speak. I'm not an expert on the FDA or ISO standards by any means, I just work for a biotech company.
If you're interested in how the animals tests are actually structured, google "animal models for contact lenses"; there are a number of published papers available for free on the first page.

/2cents

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 Post subject: Re: Contact Lenses and Animal Testing
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 3:22 pm 
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I don't understand all the FDA stuff. I understand they have regulations about what gets tested and how or whatever, but I don't trust the FDA for anything so I go directly to the companies themselves for answers, or seek out others who have contacted the companies.
This is what I found on the veggieboards forum regarding Day Soft, it is an email response regarding animal testing, its a little vague but it gets the point across.

Dear (Name removed)

Thanks for your email, and apologies for the delayed reply.

I can confirm that daysoft was not required to carry out any tests involving animals for the current products which are on the market.

We chose to use a combination of materials which had already been established as safe for use, and made an argument to the regulatory body that there should be no further requirement for any tests involving animals. This argument was accepted and we were given approval to market our daily disposable lenses.

If you are wearing monthly lenses which need to be cleaned each day, it is important to note that the cleaning solutions are often subjected to much more extensive testing than the lenses because there are more opportunities for allergic reactions to the cleaning chemicals.

At daysoft we only manufacture daily disposable lenses because there is clear evidence that wearing fresh,sterile lenses every day is the healthiest way to wear contact lenses. Our aim is to make the benefits of daily disposable wear as widely available as possible, hence the reason that you can buy daysoft daily disposables for under £10/month.

I hope this information is helpful.

Best regards

Mark

daysoft Customer Care



It is almost impossible to buy 100% of your products whether they are for hair, eyes, health, skin, etc that have not had, at some point, one or more of their ingredients tested on animals even if it was not by that particular company. They could be piggybacking off of others research. I know that I've seen brands that say they are cruelty free because the company themselves does not test their products or ingredients on animals, but that doesn't mean another company using a same ingredient has not been tested. I do the best I can and refuse to buy anything from any company that directly, or knowingly yet indirectly tests on animals.

In the case of Day Soft, they used things that had already been established as safe, whether or not these things were tested on animals to determine their safety, who knows, but Day Soft themselves did not carry out any animal testing. Also, they are not based in the US so I don't think they are subject to the FDA guidelines. If a company says it does not test on animals, I take their word for it. Even companies that do, when contacted will admit it. Bath and Body Works(i dont use them, its just an example), all of their labels say "This finished product was not tested on animals." They dont test their products on animals but the ingredients may have been by the ingredient manufacturer. I guess it's all a matter of what people are willing to accept as answers regarding animal testing and the veganness of products and how far people are actually willing to look into things.

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 Post subject: Re: Contact Lenses and Animal Testing
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:10 pm 
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fruitbat wrote:
Anek wrote:
I hadn't even thought about contacts being tested! The PPK opens my mind to so much.
I wear Acuvue too, but I really really would like to get pretty glasses. I can't though (unless I want 2 inches thick lenses) so I need to look into laser-fixing my problem.

When was the last time you had glasses? The lenses for my -8 were about 4 mm... And that was like 12 years ago they might have even thinner versions now.


I was at the optic two years ago, and he said it was not possible to make them any thinner... I have -8.5 and -9.0. I might try again at another place.

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 Post subject: Re: Contact Lenses and Animal Testing
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:26 am 
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Anek wrote:
fruitbat wrote:
Anek wrote:
I hadn't even thought about contacts being tested! The PPK opens my mind to so much.
I wear Acuvue too, but I really really would like to get pretty glasses. I can't though (unless I want 2 inches thick lenses) so I need to look into laser-fixing my problem.

When was the last time you had glasses? The lenses for my -8 were about 4 mm... And that was like 12 years ago they might have even thinner versions now.


I was at the optic two years ago, and he said it was not possible to make them any thinner... I have -8.5 and -9.0. I might try again at another place.

Strange. I would definitely ask at another place. They probably won't be very thin, but they should definitely be able to make them manageable (as in around 5 mm or so at the thickest point). I suppose astigmatism and such might have an effect on how thin they can make the lenses as well? I think the ones I had might have been a superthin version (as opposed to regular which wouldn't have worked or thin which would still have been thicker than I'd like to deal with).


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 Post subject: Re: Contact Lenses and Animal Testing
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:46 am 
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So my Day Soft lenses came in the mail while I was on vaca so today is my first day wearing them and so far, I love them! I've only had them in for about 6 hours so we will see how my eyeballs feel after wearing them for another 12 but I have a really good feeling about them. And while they are thinner than acuvues, they don't seem so thin that they will rip super easily. And the cost can't be argued with either, $7.99 a box?! Heck yes!

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 Post subject: Re: Contact Lenses and Animal Testing
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:55 am 
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Aww, I just looked into the Day Softs, and can't use them because they don't correct astigmatism.


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 Post subject: Re: Contact Lenses and Animal Testing
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:13 pm 
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allychristine wrote:
Aww, I just looked into the Day Softs, and can't use them because they don't correct astigmatism.



boooo that stinks! I have a very slight astigmatism, luckily it's not at the point where I need lenses for it. Hopefully it won't get to the point but I'm sure it will, my eyes get progressively worse every year

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 Post subject: Re: Contact Lenses and Animal Testing
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:13 pm 
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i use acuvue lenses and optifree lens solution, and i feel guilty about it as i know they're not cruelty-free, but i know that veganism isn't about perfection, and it's my vision we're talking about. i looked into lasik and i'm not a great candidate as my vision is a bit too poor and my pupils are apparently ginormous when dilated, so there would always be a ring of uncorrected vision when i was out at night/in the dark. lately my contacts have been super uncomfy, so i've been wearing my glasses more, but the glasses give me headaches, so it's a give-and-take. i'm perpetually frustrated with my eyes, and i've been wearing glasses/corrective lenses since kindergarten. blargh.

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 Post subject: Re: Contact Lenses and Animal Testing
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 5:54 am 
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It is time, therefore, to put some pressure on the manufacturers of contact lens products. Please write to manufacturers and use your power as a consumer to encourage them to eliminate animal testing of their products.


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 Post subject: Re: Contact Lenses and Animal Testing
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:52 am 
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I used the 30 day extended wear ones before I had Lasik. It was during my pregan days, so I wasn't all that educated on byproducts in solution. Near the end of my contact days, I did make an effort to only get basic solution with no additives. I remember in high school when I used this Aosept stuff to clean my contacts. It always felt like fire the next time I tried to wear my contacts.
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 Post subject: Re: Contact Lenses and Animal Testing
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:38 pm 
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fork, i had no idea that contacts were tested on animals. i have been wearing accuvue since i was 14. *sigh*

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