Post Punk Kitchen Forum

Yep. We had a barbecue at our place for the football grand final last year, and it ended up being horrible weather so we had to cook inside. I'd made a ton of veggie burgers and potato salad and stuff, and some people still bought their own sausages and pans and things, which I could deal with. But one person bought bacon, and fried it over a super high heat so bacon fat splattered all over my stove and the wall. I was well out of the kitchen as this happened, but I was not happy to find after everyone had gone home that no one had attempted to clean it up. So, the point is- someone inconsiderate enough to demand that they bring bacon isn't going to give a shiitake about cleaning up the inevitable gross, stinky mess.

No one has said this exactly, but you're well within your rights to call him and say, look, I've thought it through and would really prefer that you don't bring [whatever non-vegan food] to brunch. Give him reasons if you must, but it's your house and you don't have to explain the rules.

You say he's doing it to wind you up - don't forking let him. If he's gonna be enough of a dick-bag to try to coerce you into letting him cook stinky bacon/eggs/whatever in your house and is already going full-on anti-veg, he'll probably be the type to wave that shiitake in front of everyone else while ragging on your delicious vegan food. You don't need that, especially in your own home.

Yeah I kind of agree with Rachel. I have been dealing with a now ex veg and even though we have talked about food for years and years now I can't even say I like nutritional yeast to him anymore without him talking about how much happier he feels now. The other day we went to a vegan restaurant, he asked if the sausage was "real" then when the waitress gracefully said "no it's homeade seitan and it's really good" he said he'd just have water. This is a guy who has been vegetarian/vegan for probably 25 years, meat eater for 1 and now suddenly can't eat non meat. And he's a dick about it.

My point is that Ex's are really excited about their new choice. They want everyone to know about it and the best way is to have a confrontation with you. It's different then dealing with non vegans. I would straight up tell him if that talking about food is off the table.

But what I'm saying is they see it as rude as well...and I've had people say "Can't you just eat this for one meal and be polite?" From their point of view it's the same. For us, it's not. So it's a perspective issue. They feel that if you think it's okay to bring food into their home to keep with your dietary wishes then they can do the same. Most people see vegan as a picky thing. I'm told every single day that I'm too picky and I should just eat what everyone else is eating. I've actually been excluded from dinners with friends simply because they didn't want me to bring food when they worked hard to prepare food. It's crepe I know, but it's the uphill battle having to be fought. Especially when you work with a bunch of people who aren't open minded at all and think everything is better with bacon.

Yeah, I recently had someone who had recently discovered the connection between eating animals and food shortages. To which the response was basically "I may cut down meat, but I'm not giving it up. And bacon." So, yeah, it sucks our collective choices fork over the world. But bacon. Oh, and cheese.

And you're right, it IS a perspective thing, and I'll admit to being influenced from being on this side of the fence. But the problem is there is a justifiable, ethical grounding on avoidance. If it were somehow ethically/spiritually imperative for someone to have cheese or bacon or beef at every single meal maybe I would think differently but so far I've not seen a reasonable argument for that. Just like I would respect someone keeping kosher or halal (spelling?) even though I'm an atheist, I expect my moral choices to be respected, too. Mostly I'm just still annoyed at having dealt with this recently, so please ignore my ranty-ness.

And sorry I wasn't clear on my dog analogy...for the bacon, it's totally equal (to me) but I was thinking of my own incidents with dairy when I wrote that out. Even though it is abundantly clear that dairy and eggs are just as cruel as actual meat, that feeling just isn't captured the same way in milk as it is in flesh. All "food" animals are equivalent to dogs/cats.

I don't give omnivores so little credit as to think that they really don't understand the difference between a principled reason for abstaining from a type of food and being a picky baby. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but honestly, if my friends would not invite me to dinner because it hurt their feelings so much that I had a particular set of ethical beliefs about food that required me to bring my own, they would not be my friends for long.

If the OP's friend had a medical issue that made it hard for them to digest plant-based foods, or had a religious faith that forbade tofu and greens or something, then I imagine the conversation would be very different. As it stands, it's someone who has a standard majority diet, who is asking their host, who has an ethical objection to animal products, to accommodate them by having them cook their own food in their host's kitchen. To me, the whole "I'm going to exclude you because your lifestyle makes me uncomfortable" is the kind of bullshiitake for which someone should get booted from your life.

UNINVITE! :)

Seriously, though. If your ex-vegetarian "friend" is truly your friend, he would have respected your ethics and not rudely state he is bringing food to cook. It's not like he's actually a carnivore now, so he can ONLY eat animals, right?

If I had someone like that coming over, I'd never let him cook meat/eggs in my house - even on his own skillet, and then set up brunch outside and he could eat his own pre-cooked meaty-eggy things while hiding behind a tree.

A-men.

And if someone wants to play host and doesn't want anyone else making food because then--heaven forbid--the host wouldn't get all the props and attention for making the meal--then that host damn well has a responsibility to make food that everyone can eat. When I was omni, I'd still make a full dish (not a crappy salad) for my veg friends if I was having people over for dinner. When my partner and I host dinners now, we still accommodate for all allergies/dietary restrictions. We'll make a completely soy-, gluten-, and nut-free dinner (hello taco night!), or we'll make more than one entree. Granted, both of us like to cook--but any host who doesn't want to go through the trouble of cooking for everyone shouldn't invite friends for dinner, in the first place. Invite people over for movies and drinks, or go out to eat, or have a potluck. If you can't handle that, limit your social circle to other whiny babies and go sit in the corner with them.

The one exception: I have omni friends who just don't know how to make something vegan. They'll tell me this in advance, and invite me to bring/cook whatever I want...I don't find that offensive because it's still an effort to include me.

assilembob: I didn't mean to say that you peas'd me off. My bro wasn't giving me the empathy I wanted at the time and that's all I meant by that. I appreciate your input.


I do too.

It's neat to actually talk about this reaction that people have when they turn a 180 after being veg. Most of the time, I just throw my hands up or shrug my shoulders and am generally speechless. I mean, how could you have empathy for some ethics/ beliefs and then refuse to see that side of the spectrum? They must force themselves to forget or feign ignorance or something.

This friend also works in the kitchen of a fancy restaurant that serves stuff like foie gras (yeah, let's not get into that) so I'm sure that not only is he thinking I'm not appreciating food fully, but also that he has more refined tastes.... I'm not saying that justifies his behavior at all-- I agree with what jordanpattern said on that-- I'm just trying to give myself some perspective, honestly.

I know a lot of you would write this person off, but I live in a very small town and I think it's good to strive to keep the few friends I have. I've also known this person a very long time, so even though he can be cantankerous, I think it's worth it to keep him in my life.

I've decided that if he gives me a hard time at brunch tomorrow, I'm going to ask to speak with him away from everyone else and then very calmly and politely ask him to leave. But hopefully it won't come to that. Hopefully he'll come in and say, "Hey (chouettes crêpes), sorry I gave you a hard time about the bacon thing. This is a great tofu scramble."

The smell of cooking eggs made me feel ill even as an omni...I have never liked them and have always found the smell offensive. I would not let someone cook eggs in my house...or bacon, now. Neither eggs nor bacon seems like a good accompaniment to a vegan brunch.

I view my bringing a vegan dish to a non-potluck as different than bringing meat or eggs to a vegan's house. I always bring enough to share too. And I'm bringing my own dish because I *can't* eat most of what is being served...not because the host's diet excludes the things I normally eat.

It doesn't matter why someone is vegan. The omnis have no objection (ethical, religious, aesthetic) for refusing to eat dishes that don't include meat and dairy. They just want to stir shut up.

Also, if anyone thinks vegans as a group are annoying, they must never have encountered ex-vegans.

There is no legitimate reason for this person to bring eggs and bacon into your house other than to be a rude, pain in the asparagus Pretend that it's someone else here reporting this. What would you tell them?

quoted for truths.

But even if it wasn't for an ethical belief it would be rude. You are invited to a specific event and don't get to dictate the terms.

host: We're making a delicious Indian meal, we hope you like it!
guest: I don't like Indian. I'm going to bring some ravioli and a sauce. I'll just bring a saucepan and make it myself.

host: We are having dinner at 8
guest: Oh that doesn't work for me. I'll get there at 9, but don't worry, I'll make my own meal.

host: we're inviting bill and sue as well.
guest: Oh I don't like them. I'm going to bring George and we can set up a separate table. Don't worry, I have a card table from Costco.

What the hell did you type to get this filter?

Why do you think its a filter?

It's capitalised in the middle of a sentence (I guess I should've left it in context). It just looks like a filter.

Oh god he's a foodie and a newly ex-vegan. Good luck! Let us know how it goes.

Absolutely uninvite. Be firm, but polite. Something like, "I don't need a huge forking drama llama shitting on my brunch, so do us all a favor and just stay the fork home."

Truth.

teehee... drama llama....

He came over without the bacon or eggs and made some comments about how he's never going to do another diet again-- to which I suppose he was referring to "vegetarianism", although he didn't observe it very astutely in the first place-- and I just kinda dismissed it with a "to each his own" comment. Although it may seem strange, he is a friend and I'm just going to patiently watch him go through this little anti-veg phase and not let it get to me. He complimented the tofu scramble and I don't care if he didn't mean it.

It sounds like it went awesome! I'm so glad he didn't try and start shiitake!

I think he knew I would've spat back just as hard if he started anything ;)

Good job. You are much nicer than some of us would have been! (even my passive-agressive bitchyness)

he actually seemed to behave pretty well too. I am glad your brunch was not drama llama.