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 Post subject: Re: Vegan Privilage
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:12 pm 
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Maybe a vegan pissed her off.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan Privilage
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:21 pm 
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AutumnLeaves wrote:
Maybe a vegan pissed her off in her soup.


I know I would

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan Privilage
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:26 pm 
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Not to mention the fact that at least for us American and Canadians, having meat every day is a privilege compared historically here and for much of the rest of the world. Meat is a luxury and having lots off us is a nation's way of showing off its wealth, hence meat subsidiaries. If those subsidiaries weren't there and the true cost of meat was revealed, it would be much more expensive.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan Privilage
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:59 pm 
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AutumnLeaves wrote:
Maybe a vegan pissed her off.



i think a vegetable pissed her off

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan Privilage
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:19 am 
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Being able to eat at all is a privilege.
Being able to have any level of control over what you eat is also a privilege.

That's where this argument ends. Being vegan isn't about buying expensive meat and dairy imitation products, being vegan is about eliminating animal foods from your diet (and other consumer goods). It's entirely possible to eat decent vegetarian and vegan meals for significantly less money than it would cost to eat highly processed junk food and McDonald's.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan Privilage
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:35 am 
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- removed because it was a stupid post anyway and everything came out wrong -

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan Privilage
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:15 pm 
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Shantylass wrote:
Being able to eat at all is a privilege.
Being able to have any level of control over what you eat is also a privilege.


This.

And the most "privileged" diet I can't think of is a locavore diet a la Michael Pollan. That's certainly not vegan.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan Privilage
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:21 pm 
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I just read a similar article that a friend from highschool (who doesn't know I am vegan) on facebook posted. She went out of her way to take quotes from this chef out of the article which stated that vegans (and gluten free, etc.) were narcissistic and infantile because we don't eat what they serve as is on the menu and "expect" that the chef or host will accomodate them. It took everything I had not to respond to it. I really don't like to get into fights on facebook. I wanted to post, "Because everyone knows that chefs get a lot of psychological training."


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan Privilage
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:36 pm 
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Shy Mox wrote:
Not to mention the fact that at least for us American and Canadians, having meat every day is a privilege compared historically here and for much of the rest of the world.


Plus, if you consider how much fish and corn is used to feed "food" animals and fish (like farmed salmon), the market for that "animal feed" means that poor people are priced out of having enough to eat. And at the same time, you never see the real human cost. Isn't that a ginormous privilege?

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan Privilage
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:32 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
Shy Mox wrote:
Not to mention the fact that at least for us American and Canadians, having meat every day is a privilege compared historically here and for much of the rest of the world.


Plus, if you consider how much fish and corn is used to feed "food" animals and fish (like farmed salmon), the market for that "animal feed" means that poor people are priced out of having enough to eat. And at the same time, you never see the real human cost. Isn't that a ginormous privilege?

Omni privilege!


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan Privilage
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:42 pm 
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Choosing to have a vegan diet is privileged for numerous reasons:

It is a privilege to have access to information about alternative diets; this includes knowing what recipes to use, what foods to purchase, and how to make things that taste good.

One word: library.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan Privilage
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:46 pm 
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Is the whole argument that having (and intending to stick to) food preferences (ethical, aesthetic, or otherwise) is infantile and privileged? Because much of the world can't afford to be picky and must eat whatever is available, it's horrible for anyone to turn down food? Even hypothetical, not-actually-offered food?

I suppose the author of the original piece eats only the crud found on the bottom of the dumpster.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan Privilage
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:00 am 
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Tofulish wrote:
Shy Mox wrote:
Not to mention the fact that at least for us American and Canadians, having meat every day is a privilege compared historically here and for much of the rest of the world.


Plus, if you consider how much fish and corn is used to feed "food" animals and fish (like farmed salmon), the market for that "animal feed" means that poor people are priced out of having enough to eat. And at the same time, you never see the real human cost. Isn't that a ginormous privilege?


PREACH.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan Privilage
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:17 am 
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I've been thinking about this lately. I work in a homeless shelter, and I'm always sheepish about it when residents find out I'm vegan. The more I get to know people, though, the less I worry about it. Sometimes I'm offered food when they know it happens to be vegan, and one time a lady even gave me a vegan cookbook when she moved out, as a going-away present. I made her mini chocolate-orange-hazelnut tarts from VPITS.

I think it reads to most people here as just a difference in lifestyle, rather than a difference in privilege.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan Privilage
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:54 am 
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To be fair, although this person clearly is an idiot & has framed his/her argument incredibly poorly, I do think there's some truth to this.

Garrick wrote:
I've been thinking about this lately. I work in a homeless shelter, and I'm always sheepish about it when residents find out I'm vegan.


I'm sometimes in a similar position at work too.

I work with lots of disadvantaged/underprivileged/whatever-generic-term-you-like teenagers & young adults. Quite often I'm in situations where we all eat together - everyone else will be tucking into the buffet provided & instead I'll be sat munching my own PB sandwich. This always prompts questions & gets lots of comments; I do explain the fact I'm vegan but basically I will just say as little as possible & change the subject, since discussing dietary ethics with a bunch of people who might not know where their next meal is coming from would be kind of ridiculous.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan Privilage
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:53 am 
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i think the only thing wrong with being in a position of privilege, is to misuse that said privilege. like sitting around blogging hatefully about people changing their entire lives to help underprivileged farm animals. bisque.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan Privilage
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:09 am 
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JimXVX wrote:
To be fair, although this person clearly is an idiot & has framed his/her argument incredibly poorly, I do think there's some truth to this.

Garrick wrote:
I've been thinking about this lately. I work in a homeless shelter, and I'm always sheepish about it when residents find out I'm vegan.


I'm sometimes in a similar position at work too.

I work with lots of disadvantaged/underprivileged/whatever-generic-term-you-like teenagers & young adults. Quite often I'm in situations where we all eat together - everyone else will be tucking into the buffet provided & instead I'll be sat munching my own PB sandwich. This always prompts questions & gets lots of comments; I do explain the fact I'm vegan but basically I will just say as little as possible & change the subject, since discussing dietary ethics with a bunch of people who might not know where their next meal is coming from would be kind of ridiculous.


I understand this, but at the same time, would you think twice about someone working in a similar situation to you or Garrick bringing their own food because they keep Kosher or Halal? The fact is, you are in the privileged position of being able to choose, and while you don't want to rub that privilege in the faces of the people you work with, you're not bringing out picnic baskets of expensive food, you're eating a simple PB sandwich. I don't know why food choices based on ethical considerations should be considered more frivolous than those based on religious traditions that were set out centuries ago which no longer have logical relevance in today's food climate. (And yet, they quite often are.)

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan Privilage
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:22 am 
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I have been in a position where a couple of friends I love in and respect who are also First Nations people (fish, beef, and earlier, buffalo, are big parts of their diet) suggested that it was easy for me to be vegan because of my lack of cultural values tied to food and my ability to afford stuff like soy milk (so basically, "privilege"). I let it go because while I could kind of see where they were coming from, our philosophies clashed and I didn't see them understanding mine anytime soon. But I still kind of regret not going there.

But yes, this grass-fed beef/paleo nonsense has got to be the most expensive diet there is.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan Privilage
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:26 am 
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❀madam dahlia❀ wrote:
i think the only thing wrong with being in a position of privilege, is to misuse that said privilege. like sitting around blogging hatefully about people changing their entire lives to help underprivileged farm animals. bisque.


I love you. ::blows kisses::

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan Privilage
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:22 pm 
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❀madam dahlia❀ wrote:
i think the only thing wrong with being in a position of privilege, is to misuse that said privilege. like sitting around blogging hatefully about people changing their entire lives to help underprivileged farm animals. bisque.


i dont think there is a better or more succinct way to sum it up!!!

also someone mentioned people thinking gluten free is priviledged??
that makes no sense in my brain (ok well neither did the whole blog post we are talking about)

are there really people out there who think a gluten free diet is a priviledged diet? i mean im sure there are people who choose a gluten free diet for non-allergy reasons but i mean if you CANT eat gluten because you have celiac disease that doesnt really seem priviledged to me :-/

it's kind of like calling kids who are deathly allergic to peanuts ungrateful little snots for not eating pb&j

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Damn dirty vegan hippies and their carob.~~Moon

It's just funny to think that we could go through years of this, become the president of the damn country, and still, we'd be eating pasta with veggies at every. damn. function.~~Joyfulgirl


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan Privilage
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:35 pm 
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vijita wrote:
I have been in a position where a couple of friends I love in and respect who are also First Nations people (fish, beef, and earlier, buffalo, are big parts of their diet) suggested that it was easy for me to be vegan because of my lack of cultural values tied to food and my ability to afford stuff like soy milk (so basically, "privilege"). I let it go because while I could kind of see where they were coming from, our philosophies clashed and I didn't see them understanding mine anytime soon. But I still kind of regret not going there.

But yes, this grass-fed beef/paleo nonsense has got to be the most expensive diet there is.


Semi ridiculous, because the culture surrounding the US and Canada is heavily animal based as far as whats being eaten.


Another point I thought about this is most vegans staple foods are actually foods that are also staples for impoverished people around the world. Beans, Rice, Grains, ect. Cheap forms of complete protein.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan Privilage
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:05 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
AutumnLeaves wrote:
Maybe a vegan pissed her off in her soup.


I know I would

That would mean that her soup was no longer vegan...unless a vegan's pee is vegan.

Okay, carry on.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan Privilage
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:09 pm 
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lepelaar wrote:
JimXVX wrote:
To be fair, although this person clearly is an idiot & has framed his/her argument incredibly poorly, I do think there's some truth to this.

Garrick wrote:
I've been thinking about this lately. I work in a homeless shelter, and I'm always sheepish about it when residents find out I'm vegan.


I'm sometimes in a similar position at work too.

I work with lots of disadvantaged/underprivileged/whatever-generic-term-you-like teenagers & young adults. Quite often I'm in situations where we all eat together - everyone else will be tucking into the buffet provided & instead I'll be sat munching my own PB sandwich. This always prompts questions & gets lots of comments; I do explain the fact I'm vegan but basically I will just say as little as possible & change the subject, since discussing dietary ethics with a bunch of people who might not know where their next meal is coming from would be kind of ridiculous.


I understand this, but at the same time, would you think twice about someone working in a similar situation to you or Garrick bringing their own food because they keep Kosher or Halal? The fact is, you are in the privileged position of being able to choose, and while you don't want to rub that privilege in the faces of the people you work with, you're not bringing out picnic baskets of expensive food, you're eating a simple PB sandwich. I don't know why food choices based on ethical considerations should be considered more frivolous than those based on religious traditions that were set out centuries ago which no longer have logical relevance in today's food climate. (And yet, they quite often are.)


The kids I know who fit this sort of profile get most of their food from free lunch and breakfast programs. If they have religious restrictions on food, they ignore them because they are hungry. These are kids who suffer on the weekends because they don't get their free lunch and breakfast. These are kids who have teachers sneaking them snacks during the day. This kind of hunger does exist in the USA.
Kids who either eat their free breakfast or don't eat have different food issues than worrying about if something is Kosher or vegan. They can't believe that anyone would turn away food.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan Privilage
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:32 pm 
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Is soy milk really something that is considered expensive? More so than meats or fancy cheeses? My favorite brand , for a 946 ml tetrapac , is 1.59 at the discount store or 1.80 at the supermarket closest to my house.

Just the notion of someone blogging on how one has to be *privileged* in order to buy spices & olive oil or to cook seems so strange and hypocritical. Like you are going to call someone out for being able to choose what they eat or cook , but not see yourself as privileged for being a blogger - what? It's not like omins are all subsisting off of soylent green while we vegs live it up covering things in paprika (fancy!).


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan Privilage
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:35 am 
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Vantine wrote:
lepelaar wrote:
JimXVX wrote:

I'm sometimes in a similar position at work too.

I work with lots of disadvantaged/underprivileged/whatever-generic-term-you-like teenagers & young adults. Quite often I'm in situations where we all eat together - everyone else will be tucking into the buffet provided & instead I'll be sat munching my own PB sandwich. This always prompts questions & gets lots of comments; I do explain the fact I'm vegan but basically I will just say as little as possible & change the subject, since discussing dietary ethics with a bunch of people who might not know where their next meal is coming from would be kind of ridiculous.


I understand this, but at the same time, would you think twice about someone working in a similar situation to you or Garrick bringing their own food because they keep Kosher or Halal? The fact is, you are in the privileged position of being able to choose, and while you don't want to rub that privilege in the faces of the people you work with, you're not bringing out picnic baskets of expensive food, you're eating a simple PB sandwich. I don't know why food choices based on ethical considerations should be considered more frivolous than those based on religious traditions that were set out centuries ago which no longer have logical relevance in today's food climate. (And yet, they quite often are.)


The kids I know who fit this sort of profile get most of their food from free lunch and breakfast programs. If they have religious restrictions on food, they ignore them because they are hungry. These are kids who suffer on the weekends because they don't get their free lunch and breakfast. These are kids who have teachers sneaking them snacks during the day. This kind of hunger does exist in the USA.
Kids who either eat their free breakfast or don't eat have different food issues than worrying about if something is Kosher or vegan. They can't believe that anyone would turn away food.


Point taken, but does that mean that someone working in a situation like Garrick or Jim (who is vegan or Kosher or Halal and who is able to afford food) should ignore their own dietary restrictions in the presence of the kids (or in Garrick's case, shelter residents) and eat what's being offered even if it's not vegan/Kosher/Halal rather than provide their own food? I'm asking this seriously, because I'm curious what others would do in this situation.

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