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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:45 am 
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paprikapapaya wrote:
Co-worker keeps bringing up that she thinks we need to get over being so PC and start calling it Christmas again. Sorry, but when did it stop being called Christmas? And honestly, you can't accept the fact that you live in a country with multiple other cultures? Get over yourself.
Also, same co-worker is constantly talking about the "turkey dinner" lunch on Thursday and making "mmm mmm mmm!" sounds. I'm the only person out of 20 people at this office that isn't participating.
That's all very depressing.


The whole "War on Christmas" thing is so ridiculous. Who's attacking Christmas? It's just this way for Fox News to get Christians, the majority, to feel like they're being persecuted.


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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:56 am 
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I always see these "it's Merry Christmas, not Happy Holidays!" Images being posted on Facebook and I just think... Can't it be both?

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:58 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:07 am 
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paprikapapaya wrote:
Co-worker keeps bringing up that she thinks we need to get over being so PC and start calling it Christmas again. Sorry, but when did it stop being called Christmas? And honestly, you can't accept the fact that you live in a country with multiple other cultures? Get over yourself.
Also, same co-worker is constantly talking about the "turkey dinner" lunch on Thursday and making "mmm mmm mmm!" sounds. I'm the only person out of 20 people at this office that isn't participating.
That's all very depressing.

I'm slightly with your coworker, though for an entirely different reason. I really really appreciate when someone says Happy Holidays to me instead of Merry Christmas if they don't know what I celebrate. But it stinks that there are holiday parties, holiday trees, holiday cookie exchanges, and holiday lights, when they're really Christmas parties, Christmas trees, Christmas cookie exchanges, and Christmas lights. You can't just put the word holiday in front and expect that it's inclusive.


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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:11 am 
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mollyjade wrote:
paprikapapaya wrote:
Co-worker keeps bringing up that she thinks we need to get over being so PC and start calling it Christmas again. Sorry, but when did it stop being called Christmas? And honestly, you can't accept the fact that you live in a country with multiple other cultures? Get over yourself.
Also, same co-worker is constantly talking about the "turkey dinner" lunch on Thursday and making "mmm mmm mmm!" sounds. I'm the only person out of 20 people at this office that isn't participating.
That's all very depressing.

I'm slightly with your coworker, though for an entirely different reason. I really really appreciate when someone says Happy Holidays to me instead of Merry Christmas if they don't know what I celebrate. But it stinks that there are holiday parties, holiday trees, holiday cookie exchanges, and holiday lights, when they're really Christmas parties, Christmas trees, Christmas cookie exchanges, and Christmas lights. You can't just put the word holiday in front and expect that it's inclusive.


YES! MJ, I feel exactly the same way. If it's a Christmas party, call it a Christmas party. Don't pretend it's also a Hanukkah/Kwanzaa/Winter party when you don't even know when those other holidays are. I'm not offended by people celebrating Christmas, but I am offended that people think that Chanukkah is just Jewish Christmas.

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:12 am 
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ijustdiedinside wrote:
mollyjade wrote:
paprikapapaya wrote:
Co-worker keeps bringing up that she thinks we need to get over being so PC and start calling it Christmas again. Sorry, but when did it stop being called Christmas? And honestly, you can't accept the fact that you live in a country with multiple other cultures? Get over yourself.
Also, same co-worker is constantly talking about the "turkey dinner" lunch on Thursday and making "mmm mmm mmm!" sounds. I'm the only person out of 20 people at this office that isn't participating.
That's all very depressing.

I'm slightly with your coworker, though for an entirely different reason. I really really appreciate when someone says Happy Holidays to me instead of Merry Christmas if they don't know what I celebrate. But it stinks that there are holiday parties, holiday trees, holiday cookie exchanges, and holiday lights, when they're really Christmas parties, Christmas trees, Christmas cookie exchanges, and Christmas lights. You can't just put the word holiday in front and expect that it's inclusive.


YES! MJ, I feel exactly the same way. If it's a Christmas party, call it a Christmas party. Don't pretend it's also a Hanukkah/Kwanzaa/Winter party when you don't even know when those other holidays are. I'm not offended by people celebrating Christmas, but I am offended that people think that Chanukkah is just Jewish Christmas.


But what makes a Christmas party a Christmas party? like my work has holiday parties because they are at the end of the year, they aren't christmas parties. Other people I know are having parties that aren't Christmas parties. People put up lights not particularly for Christmas but that they like them and some people even put up trees.

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:13 am 
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But my position is that I only ever hear people calling stuff Christmas party/feast/dinner/tree/whatever! I've never heard someone call it a holiday tree. There is no war on Christmas, there's plenty of talk about Christmas, but is it really wrong to get "Happy Holidays!" cards instead of "Merry Christmas!" cards to give out to your co-workers? I don't celebrate Christmas in the Christian sense, but in the secular santa/tree/elves way, so maybe that affects my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:21 am 
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I don't think it's wrong to give out Happy Holiday cards, but if those cards have trees and lights and are green and red, then it's basically a Christmas card. Personally, I'd prefer to get a card for New Years since everyone can celebrate that. The thing that bothers me about this season is that people just ignore the fact that I'm Jewish or worse people feel sorry for me that I don't "get" to celebrate Christmas and give me Christmas presents and cards because they feel bad.

To be fair, I do actually celebrate Christmas with my husband, but we also light the menorah for Chanukkah.

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:25 am 
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Yeah, I hear that. The cards I'm giving out this year have hand drawn owls that are wearing scarves and there's no green or red in sight. That way, it's inclusive of everyone, including myself, since I'm not Christian and don't give a shiitake about the true meaning of Christmas or whatever.

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:25 am 
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PS i get REALLY grinchy around this time of year, so...i apologize in advance.

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:31 am 
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paprikapapaya wrote:
Yeah, I hear that. The cards I'm giving out this year have hand drawn owls that are wearing scarves and there's no green or red in sight. That way, it's inclusive of everyone, including myself, since I'm not Christian and don't give a shiitake about the true meaning of Christmas or whatever.


I would love to get a card like that!

I'm not Christian, but I do like to celebrate it being midwinter. I'm saddened that people might be offended by me sending greetings cards that don't point to a particular religion, but since Pagans say Christians co-opted their holiday to begin with I don't see it as so black and white.

I've had a Christian co-worker tick me off for saying holiday season instead of Christmas but actually I was referring to being on holiday from work. Apart from Easter, it is the only time we all are.

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:31 am 
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Sorry to talk more about christmas when it's obvious that christmas is played out in this conversation, but reading this all reminded me of mistletoe for some reason and hey..that tradition is weird.

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:57 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:59 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:07 pm 
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linanil wrote:
ijustdiedinside wrote:
mollyjade wrote:
I'm slightly with your coworker, though for an entirely different reason. I really really appreciate when someone says Happy Holidays to me instead of Merry Christmas if they don't know what I celebrate. But it stinks that there are holiday parties, holiday trees, holiday cookie exchanges, and holiday lights, when they're really Christmas parties, Christmas trees, Christmas cookie exchanges, and Christmas lights. You can't just put the word holiday in front and expect that it's inclusive.


YES! MJ, I feel exactly the same way. If it's a Christmas party, call it a Christmas party. Don't pretend it's also a Hanukkah/Kwanzaa/Winter party when you don't even know when those other holidays are. I'm not offended by people celebrating Christmas, but I am offended that people think that Chanukkah is just Jewish Christmas.


But what makes a Christmas party a Christmas party? like my work has holiday parties because they are at the end of the year, they aren't christmas parties. Other people I know are having parties that aren't Christmas parties. People put up lights not particularly for Christmas but that they like them and some people even put up trees.

Are the decorations red and green? Are there evergreens/mistletoe? Is there a secret santa/white elephant gift exchange? Are there traditional Christmas foods like cookies? Are people wearing holiday sweaters and santa caps? Is there Christmas music playing?

I know that many people celebrate Christmas in a secular manner, but if you put up twinkle lights this time of the year, they're Christmas lights.

I really am very pleased to be invited to join my friends and coworkers in celebration of their holiday. But it's frustrating that everyone expects it to be my holiday, too. Don't pressure me to put up "holiday" decorations. Don't pressure me to make "holiday" cookies. And don't pressure me to participate in a "holiday" gift exchange. I don't celebrate my holiday in any of those ways.


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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:15 pm 
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mollyjade wrote:
I know that many people celebrate Christmas in a secular manner, but if you put up twinkle lights this time of the year, they're Christmas lights.


I don't celebrate Christmas. I've never celebrated Christmas in my life. If I put up twinkle lights this time of year, they're definitely not Christmas lights...unless I spell "Merry Christmas" with them or they're shaped like Santa Claus or something. That's as absurd as saying that if I light a menorah at this time of year, it's a Christmas menorah.

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:16 pm 
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Fee wrote:
Sorry to talk more about christmas when it's obvious that christmas is played out in this conversation, but reading this all reminded me of mistletoe for some reason and hey..that tradition is weird.

it originated with the druids, i think. it was related to fertility rituals somehow.

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:19 pm 
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JonnyWoop wrote:
American Life #480, "Animal Sacrifice," is all about animal (ab)use. not sure if i'm gonna finish it


Moon wrote:
JonnyWoop wrote:
acr wrote:
this installment of this american life that i'm listening to is tearing my heart to bits. nobody else listen to it! it's terrible!


Which one is it?

Don't tell him! Then he will listen!

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:27 pm 
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choirqueer wrote:
mollyjade wrote:
I know that many people celebrate Christmas in a secular manner, but if you put up twinkle lights this time of the year, they're Christmas lights.


I don't celebrate Christmas. I've never celebrated Christmas in my life. If I put up twinkle lights this time of year, they're definitely not Christmas lights...unless I spell "Merry Christmas" with them or they're shaped like Santa Claus or something. That's as absurd as saying that if I light a menorah at this time of year, it's a Christmas menorah.

I meant that in relation to group events like an office party. They're closely associated with Christmas. It's not a coincidence that people put them up just after Thanksgiving and take them down just after New Year's.

This is one I feel strong about. When I was a kid, neighbors "helpfully" decorated our house with Christmas lights. I just can't help seeing something like that as overstepping our choice not to participate in that Christmas ritual.

Again, I'm very happy for anyone celebrating however they choose. I just want to be left to celebrate or not myself.


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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:42 pm 
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I put blue and white snowflake lights up in my classroom. The kids enjoy them because they are festive. I call them "snow day appreciation lights." This year, I was informed by some kids that they are gang colors. I left them up anyway since I doubt my classroom will get mistaken for Crips HQ. I didn't even know we had Crips here. MS5 is the big, scary one here.

I feel like "Happy Holidays" is usually meant to encompass the entire season. Even if one doesn't celebrate Christmas, many people have time off from work and plan family events, plus, the new year.

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:44 pm 
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mollyjade wrote:
linanil wrote:
But what makes a Christmas party a Christmas party? like my work has holiday parties because they are at the end of the year, they aren't christmas parties. Other people I know are having parties that aren't Christmas parties. People put up lights not particularly for Christmas but that they like them and some people even put up trees.

Are the decorations red and green? Are there evergreens/mistletoe? Is there a secret santa/white elephant gift exchange? Are there traditional Christmas foods like cookies? Are people wearing holiday sweaters and santa caps? Is there Christmas music playing?

I know that many people celebrate Christmas in a secular manner, but if you put up twinkle lights this time of the year, they're Christmas lights.

I really am very pleased to be invited to join my friends and coworkers in celebration of their holiday. But it's frustrating that everyone expects it to be my holiday, too. Don't pressure me to put up "holiday" decorations. Don't pressure me to make "holiday" cookies. And don't pressure me to participate in a "holiday" gift exchange. I don't celebrate my holiday in any of those ways.


The decorations vary but I've seen people put up blue and white lights. I've seen people put up lighted icicles. At our company holiday/end of year party there are no gift exchanges, there might be decorations but who knows? I don't see someone saying they don't celebrate Christmas or aren't Christian putting up lights as a way to pressure others to put up lights. I figure people do what they like. We don't put up any decorations anytime of year but that is us and if others do or don't, I don't care.

I also enjoy the end of the year. Work slows down (usually), I take time off and we get ready to start a new year that'll hopefully be better than this one was.

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Last edited by linanil on Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:46 pm 
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acr wrote:
JonnyWoop wrote:
American Life #480, "Animal Sacrifice," is all about animal (ab)use. not sure if i'm gonna finish it


JonnyWoop wrote:
acr wrote:
this installment of this american life that i'm listening to is tearing my heart to bits. nobody else listen to it! it's terrible!


Which one is it?



Gotcha. It just arrived in my iTunes feed like today.


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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:54 pm 
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linanil wrote:
mollyjade wrote:
linanil wrote:
But what makes a Christmas party a Christmas party? like my work has holiday parties because they are at the end of the year, they aren't christmas parties. Other people I know are having parties that aren't Christmas parties. People put up lights not particularly for Christmas but that they like them and some people even put up trees.

Are the decorations red and green? Are there evergreens/mistletoe? Is there a secret santa/white elephant gift exchange? Are there traditional Christmas foods like cookies? Are people wearing holiday sweaters and santa caps? Is there Christmas music playing?

I know that many people celebrate Christmas in a secular manner, but if you put up twinkle lights this time of the year, they're Christmas lights.

I really am very pleased to be invited to join my friends and coworkers in celebration of their holiday. But it's frustrating that everyone expects it to be my holiday, too. Don't pressure me to put up "holiday" decorations. Don't pressure me to make "holiday" cookies. And don't pressure me to participate in a "holiday" gift exchange. I don't celebrate my holiday in any of those ways.


The decorations vary but I've seen people put up blue and white lights. I've seen people put up lighted icicles. At our company holiday/end of year party there are no gift exchanges, there might be decorations but who knows? I don't see someone saying they don't celebrate Christmas or aren't Christian putting up lights as a way to pressure others to put up lights. I figure people do what they like. We don't put up any decorations anytime of year but that is us and if others do or don't, I don't care.

I also enjoy the end of the year. Work slows down (usually), I take time off and we get ready to start a new year that'll hopefully be better than this one was.

Your work sounds like it does a good job of being inclusive. I haven't had the same experience everywhere I've worked.


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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:00 pm 
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I just want to add that it always bugged me, growing up in NZ, that we would get Christmas cards with snowmen and robins and fireplaces on them. It's frakkin' summer!

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:08 pm 
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