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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:50 pm 
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Chip Strong
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strawberryrock wrote:
But really, her I'm not jealous of at all. I would like to think that even if my parents offered that I wouldn't take it, I would rather actually experience being an adult.


I sometimes pretty much lose my mind over stuff like this and turn into a crabby old bat - heavens to murgatroyd, I had two jobs in addition to going to school and I had thirty jillion roommates and I sold my books (saddest!) to make rent sometimes and I walked uphill in the snow both ways &c &c - and then my sweetheart reminds me that I turned out pretty awesome and that I pretty much like the life I have and wouldn't trade it to be a coddled person who didn't know how to function in the world in a million years ever.

So yeah, strawberryrock, ugh and also <3.


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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:07 pm 
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allularpunk wrote:
He needs a new realtor, clearly.

man, when I sold my place, after 2-3 months on the market with some outrageously lowball offers, we told the agent to fork off and use better copy on the site listing (that we wrote). she protested, saying that she's the expert (which was true, but we had nothing to lose at that point). within a week, there was an offer at the asking price. bam.

I forking hate (most) real estate agents.

so yes, get a new agent. or at the very least, tell this one to get their shiitake together.

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:13 pm 
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joshua wrote:
allularpunk wrote:
He needs a new realtor, clearly.

man, when I sold my place, after 2-3 months on the market with some outrageously lowball offers, we told the agent to fork off and use better copy on the site listing (that we wrote). she protested, saying that she's the expert (which was true, but we had nothing to lose at that point). within a week, there was an offer at the asking price. bam.

I forking hate (most) real estate agents.

so yes, get a new agent. or at the very least, tell this one to get their shiitake together.


Yeah real estate is funky in that the longer your listing is on the market, the less likely it will sell. At 9 months, the house would be considered ancient and most buyers won't even look at it. At that point, it should be taken off the market and look for a new agent.

Something is wrong. Either the place wasn't priced right or the place needs to be staged. The realtor should ask anyone who has looked at it why or why they aren't interested to get some feedback.

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:17 pm 
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literally a copy change was the difference for me. the original listing was like "a real DIY dream", which seemed odd since it was in generally good shape but we went with it. we changed it to read like "great family home" and suddenly it got so much more interest. same photos, same staging

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:42 pm 
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I think I'm going to drop out of architect school and apply to psychology or medicine at university.

I stayed home today because I REALLY didn't want to get out of bed, and managed to fix a bunch of things in the apartment and it feels really good. I totally needed a day where I just did whatever I wanted.


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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:35 pm 
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kfad wrote:
I am doing a little rearrangement of my living room. And in the middle I realized that I am painting in about a week. Why am I bothering?


To chase away the phantom ticking clock of course. I like any excuse to rearrange furniture. My husband has limited me to twice a year though, the behaviour reminds him of his mother.

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:41 pm 
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joshua wrote:
literally a copy change was the difference for me. the original listing was like "a real DIY dream", which seemed odd since it was in generally good shape but we went with it. we changed it to read like "great family home" and suddenly it got so much more interest. same photos, same staging


ha ha! no kidding. "a real DIY dream" would have me running for this hills. Not that I can afford a house, but reading real estate ad from all over the world is a hobby of mine, so....

ETA in Canada the euphemism is " a handyman's special"

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:45 pm 
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jean wrote:
joshua wrote:
literally a copy change was the difference for me. the original listing was like "a real DIY dream", which seemed odd since it was in generally good shape but we went with it. we changed it to read like "great family home" and suddenly it got so much more interest. same photos, same staging


ha ha! no kidding. "a real DIY dream" would have me running for this hills. Not that I can afford a house, but reading real estate ad from all over the world is a hobby of mine, so....

ETA in Canada the euphemism is " a handyman's special"


"a real DIY dream" to me translates into "great for flippers, come to us with your lowest offers". So basically horrible verbiage.

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:47 pm 
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madeleine.teacup wrote:
strawberryrock wrote:
But really, her I'm not jealous of at all. I would like to think that even if my parents offered that I wouldn't take it, I would rather actually experience being an adult.


I sometimes pretty much lose my mind over stuff like this and turn into a crabby old bat - heavens to murgatroyd, I had two jobs in addition to going to school and I had thirty jillion roommates and I sold my books (saddest!) to make rent sometimes and I walked uphill in the snow both ways &c &c - and then my sweetheart reminds me that I turned out pretty awesome and that I pretty much like the life I have and wouldn't trade it to be a coddled person who didn't know how to function in the world in a million years ever.

So yeah, strawberryrock, ugh and also <3.


While I enjoy patting myself on the back for earning my stripes, when help has been offered by parental figures, I have always accepted. I know plenty of people who were helped out in huge ways by their parents who seem like much more functional adults than I and clearly able to do all the functional, adult things I can do (and then some, sometimes, especially when I have been distracted by *just trying to eat*) and plenty of people who weren't helped who are just struggling and limping through their thirties now entirely screwed (and a couple examples of the reverse of both).

I think if you were taught how to navigate the world (because all these adult skills can be taught in adolescence), came from a financially secure and life-functional background, and have a little wisdom, perseverance, willingness, and luck, you will generally do fine - extra financial security through parental money will not spoil you, and you will probably get through periods of insecurity if you don't have that help. But any leg up is still a leg up. And hardship is still hardship. What doesn't kill you generally makes you weaker, not stronger. And people who are insecure about housing, food, etc., have a way harder time functioning in the world, a harder time learning, a harder time getting a foot hold.

If I have the money to support my kids through to adulthood, I totally will, and then some. And taking money (or other help), does not make one less of an adult. The ability to ask for and accept the help you need is a sign of maturity and wisdom.


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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:13 pm 
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Ariann wrote:
madeleine.teacup wrote:
strawberryrock wrote:
But really, her I'm not jealous of at all. I would like to think that even if my parents offered that I wouldn't take it, I would rather actually experience being an adult.


I sometimes pretty much lose my mind over stuff like this and turn into a crabby old bat - heavens to murgatroyd, I had two jobs in addition to going to school and I had thirty jillion roommates and I sold my books (saddest!) to make rent sometimes and I walked uphill in the snow both ways &c &c - and then my sweetheart reminds me that I turned out pretty awesome and that I pretty much like the life I have and wouldn't trade it to be a coddled person who didn't know how to function in the world in a million years ever.

So yeah, strawberryrock, ugh and also <3.


While I enjoy patting myself on the back for earning my stripes, when help has been offered by parental figures, I have always accepted. I know plenty of people who were helped out in huge ways by their parents who seem like much more functional adults than I and clearly able to do all the functional, adult things I can do (and then some, sometimes, especially when I have been distracted by *just trying to eat*) and plenty of people who weren't helped who are just struggling and limping through their thirties now entirely screwed (and a couple examples of the reverse of both).

I think if you were taught how to navigate the world (because all these adult skills can be taught in adolescence), came from a financially secure and life-functional background, and have a little wisdom, perseverance, willingness, and luck, you will generally do fine - extra financial security through parental money will not spoil you, and you will probably get through periods of insecurity if you don't have that help. But any leg up is still a leg up. And hardship is still hardship. What doesn't kill you generally makes you weaker, not stronger. And people who are insecure about housing, food, etc., have a way harder time functioning in the world, a harder time learning, a harder time getting a foot hold.

If I have the money to support my kids through to adulthood, I totally will, and then some. And taking money (or other help), does not make one less of an adult. The ability to ask for and accept the help you need is a sign of maturity and wisdom.


I don't think that is always the case, I can introduce you to my 50+ your old uncle who depends on parental care and always has. He is just really poor at financial management and never figured out because whenever he got into a hole, my grandparents helped him. It is such a shame to see as my grandparents never made much money but they also very, very frugal and had a pretty decent savings that my uncle continues to burn through after my grandfather died a couple years ago. My grandmother doesn't want to see him, his wife and his kid homeless so she 'helps'. I have told my mom to offer to pay for a financial manager but he refuses to work more than part time jobs and his wife refuses to work so there is no way for their income to cover their expenses. My aunts/uncles/parents have all said that they will not help him when my grandmother dies or whenever the money runs out, whichever comes first.

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:33 pm 
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I've been fortunate I guess you could say in that my parents died when I was younger so I inherited a pension from my mom. I don't see why that makes me not an adult though. It's made my life a little easier in many ways and I'm grateful for that. It still doesn't mean I'm lazy or irresponsible.

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:42 pm 
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Mars wrote:
strawberryrock wrote:
DOES EVERY PERSON HAVE SECRET PARENT MONEY.

A lot of people in our age group indeed do seem to. When ever I learn this about various friends I can't decide if I'm bitter/jealous about it or actually really grateful/proud for the little I do have.

Yeah, it irritates me when my friends talk about how hard they've worked to get where they are without acknowledging that they didn't get there by themselves. I mean, I haven't either in that my parents sent me to good schools and stuff as a kid, but I never got any money. I've talked to my husband about this, and we are both really happy to have worked our way through school and didn't depend on our parents at all, but I still feel pangs of jealousy? Bitterness? Not sure what it is. Especially on those days when our parents ask us for money. Blergh.

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:53 pm 
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linanil wrote:
I don't think that is always the case, I can introduce you to my 50+ your old uncle who depends on parental care and always has. He is just really poor at financial management and never figured out because whenever he got into a hole, my grandparents helped him. It is such a shame to see as my grandparents never made much money but they also very, very frugal and had a pretty decent savings that my uncle continues to burn through after my grandfather died a couple years ago. My grandmother doesn't want to see him, his wife and his kid homeless so she 'helps'. I have told my mom to offer to pay for a financial manager but he refuses to work more than part time jobs and his wife refuses to work so there is no way for their income to cover their expenses. My aunts/uncles/parents have all said that they will not help him when my grandmother dies or whenever the money runs out, whichever comes first.


I don't think people helping others financially makes them bad at financial management. Financial management is a skill. Just not giving someone money does not teach them that skill. If it did, we'd expect everyone living in poverty to be awesome at it, which is clearly not the case. Not giving someone money also doesn't cure their mental illness/bad family dynamics/codependency, and from your description that sounds like it might be a factor in your uncle's case.

You can teach your kids to manage money well or not. You can raise them to be functional adults or not. Giving or not giving them money is an entirely different issue. The inability to ask for the help you need has made a lot of people suffer unnecessarily. The lack of help available when someone is willing to ask also leads to a lot of suffering. The idea that any of us should be proud of forcing 20-somethings to have housing and food insecurity is kind of demented. These are not good things. They should not be. How much more productive and happy would we be as a society if there were a way better safety net for this group?


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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:12 pm 
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Ariann wrote:
linanil wrote:
I don't think that is always the case, I can introduce you to my 50+ your old uncle who depends on parental care and always has. He is just really poor at financial management and never figured out because whenever he got into a hole, my grandparents helped him. It is such a shame to see as my grandparents never made much money but they also very, very frugal and had a pretty decent savings that my uncle continues to burn through after my grandfather died a couple years ago. My grandmother doesn't want to see him, his wife and his kid homeless so she 'helps'. I have told my mom to offer to pay for a financial manager but he refuses to work more than part time jobs and his wife refuses to work so there is no way for their income to cover their expenses. My aunts/uncles/parents have all said that they will not help him when my grandmother dies or whenever the money runs out, whichever comes first.


I don't think people helping others financially makes them bad at financial management. Financial management is a skill. Just not giving someone money does not teach them that skill. If it did, we'd expect everyone living in poverty to be awesome at it, which is clearly not the case. Not giving someone money also doesn't cure their mental illness/bad family dynamics/codependency, and from your description that sounds like it might be a factor in your uncle's case.

You can teach your kids to manage money well or not. You can raise them to be functional adults or not. Giving or not giving them money is an entirely different issue. The inability to ask for the help you need has made a lot of people suffer unnecessarily. The lack of help available when someone is willing to ask also leads to a lot of suffering. The idea that any of us should be proud of forcing 20-somethings to have housing and food insecurity is kind of demented. These are not good things. They should not be. How much more productive and happy would we be as a society if there were a way better safety net for this group?

Yeah I didn't mean to imply that it makes people bad at finances but I think a lot of younger people may see what their parents have and wonder why they don't have that? And think they deserve that? That is kind of my uncle, I think he thinks he deserves a life he cannot afford and he has always been that way. If things had worked out differently and he had focused on a career, who knows? He may have owned a house by now instead of living eviction to eviction. I think a safety net isn't a bad idea but I also think we have to teach financial management at a young age. For some reason, most people in my family are fairly financial savvy but my uncle fell through some kind of hole when it came to finances.

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:21 pm 
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Yeah, it sounds like he has bigger problems than someone bailing him out. I completely agree that people need to be taught money management starting at a very young age and continuing into adulthood. Still, skills are not the same as actual money, which people legitimately need more of sometimes to get through difficult times. Holding up the "working hard, nobody helped me" storyline as somehow more noble is really problematic in the bigger scheme of things.


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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:35 pm 
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I don't think it is more noble but I think a little struggle helps people realize the value of money and what it takes to get to a good place through saving, going without sometimes, etc. Of course some people will struggle unnecessarily, be underpaid, may have difficulty finding work, etc, etc which are all different. I just think if someone is given everything they may come to a point where they really don't understand the value of saving money, budgeting and such.

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:40 pm 
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I mean, I think I would absolutely be better-off, career-wise, if my parents helped support me, absolutely. But I also think parents who support their adult children while they do unpaid internships and such are perpetuating a horribly unfair system. But of course everyone wants the best for their children and the wealthy can provide more for theirs.

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:44 pm 
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Ariann wrote:
I think if you were taught how to navigate the world (because all these adult skills can be taught in adolescence), came from a financially secure and life-functional background, and have a little wisdom, perseverance, willingness, and luck, you will generally do fine - extra financial security through parental money will not spoil you, and you will probably get through periods of insecurity if you don't have that help. But any leg up is still a leg up. And hardship is still hardship.


High school me no doubt would have turned her nose up at things like home economics classes if they'd even been offered but darned if adult me doesn't wish I'd been able to learn stuff like financial management/how to cook/&c early on.


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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:33 pm 
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strawberryrock wrote:
I mean, I think I would absolutely be better-off, career-wise, if my parents helped support me, absolutely. But I also think parents who support their adult children while they do unpaid internships and such are perpetuating a horribly unfair system. But of course everyone wants the best for their children and the wealthy can provide more for theirs.

In so many ways, it matters how much money your parents have. There is no way around that. I don't think there is anything wrong with pointing that out.

It's not the only factor but it does make a huge difference.

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:19 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:30 pm 
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madeleine.teacup wrote:
Ariann wrote:
I think if you were taught how to navigate the world (because all these adult skills can be taught in adolescence), came from a financially secure and life-functional background, and have a little wisdom, perseverance, willingness, and luck, you will generally do fine - extra financial security through parental money will not spoil you, and you will probably get through periods of insecurity if you don't have that help. But any leg up is still a leg up. And hardship is still hardship.


High school me no doubt would have turned her nose up at things like home economics classes if they'd even been offered but darned if adult me doesn't wish I'd been able to learn stuff like financial management/how to cook/&c early on.


I just saw a headline that home ec classes are gaining a lot of popularity nowadays because of that very thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:34 pm 
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ndpittman wrote:
madeleine.teacup wrote:
High school me no doubt would have turned her nose up at things like home economics classes if they'd even been offered but darned if adult me doesn't wish I'd been able to learn stuff like financial management/how to cook/&c early on.


I just saw a headline that home ec classes are gaining a lot of popularity nowadays because of that very thing.


That is really awesome!


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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:39 pm 
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Omg I really want to tell you guys about my crazy cousin who still lives off her parents money at 30 and goes on Internet rants against servers about how they should get other jobs if they don't like something!, but I'm worried she'll find this and kill me in my sleep.

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:19 pm 
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madeleine.teacup wrote:
ndpittman wrote:
madeleine.teacup wrote:
High school me no doubt would have turned her nose up at things like home economics classes if they'd even been offered but darned if adult me doesn't wish I'd been able to learn stuff like financial management/how to cook/&c early on.


I just saw a headline that home ec classes are gaining a lot of popularity nowadays because of that very thing.


That is really awesome!


That is really awesome. My high school offered absolutely nothing of any use like that. Middle school offered home ec that was half learning to follow recipes to make muffins and half lectures about self esteem. :p. at least I learned to type. That has been extremely useful.

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:29 pm 
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Now personal finance is required, so they are removing funding from science electives and art to pay for it.

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