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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 1:01 pm 
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Hugs, Moon! Hope it gets better. I'm feeling similarly this morning.

I'm not usually very active but I've been walking a lot more than usual while I'm in Seattle. The friends I'm staying with are SUPER active usually. Their apartment is at the bottom of a huge, steep hill and I get winded just walking up two blocks to where the buses stop (never mind to the top of the hill). Of course, they barely notice the incline. I don't mind doing it on my own; I want to get the exercise in. I just take my time and stop a lot. But it still wears me out. And when I come back to the apartment at the end of the day, my friend scoffs because I can't possibly be tired. I'm on vacation! Clearly, being tired can only come after working all day.

Now both of them have off the next couple of days so they wanted to get away for the weekend. So we're going camping in the mountains. They have only two sleeping bags, but it's fine because the tent is so small, we basically have to sleep stacked like pancakes. During the day, I'll be expected to happily keep myself occupied while they go bouldering or pant alongside them as we do an "easy" hike. Frankly, I'd rather just stay behind for the weekend but that's not really an option. This is supposed to be our chance to get some good solid time together, as opposed to the scattered hour or two after work, but I'm just kinda stressed about this trip and my remaining 12 days here. My feet are already ouchy and blistery from all the walking and my legs are sore from the hill climbing. But, no, I can't possibly be tired. I've been on vacation. Just flitting about Seattle without a care in the world.


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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 1:37 pm 
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Joyfulgirl, that sucks that your friends seem to be very unaccommodating and unempathetic. I am usually pretty active, and I STILL get tired on vacation pretty much every vacation! Unless your vacation consists of going to a resort and laying by a beach or pool all day, I would guess that most people are more active on vacations than they are at work, since even if you have a job where you're on your feet all day, it's mostly standing vs. walking around and engaging with the world in ways that you don't get to most days (which is something that I- and probably lots of people- TRY to plan into a vacation?)

Certainly I think it's easy to forget that your everyday activities, like walking up a huge hill or walking up a couple flights of stairs to your apartment, or getting around a city by walking or by bike, may not be the everyday activities of your guests, but I try to make it very clear to my guests if I'm taking people on long bike rides or something, that while I will try to let them set the pace, they should let me know if they would be more comfortable going at a different pace, etc.

Anyway, if you don't want to go I think you should just say that you aren't up for the weekend trip. If you'd really like their company, in town, can you just ask them if they would consider staying in town with you instead, since I'm sure there's still more of the city that you'd like to see and maybe it would be nice to have them play tour guide for the day or something, or ask if they'd be ok with staying one day in town for bonding day, and then just taking a day trip excursion somewhere, instead of overnight?


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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 2:33 pm 
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that is a bummer, joyfulgirl. option 1: tell them you're just not up for camping and you'd much rather spend time with them that doesn't involve hiking.
option 2: fake a sprained ankle. go out and a buy an ace bandage and tell them you hurt your foot. (unless one of them is a doctor).

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 3:05 pm 
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Haha, one of them is a doctor! I'll probably just go and hope for the best. I know they definitely plan to do some bouldering so I'll just read while they do that and then hopefully they won't want to hike too. I sort of got the feeling that they mentioned hiking more for my benefit. They're really excited about bouldering but they know I won't be able to do it, so I think they added in hiking so I'd have something fun to do too. So that might be easier to dodge.


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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 3:07 pm 
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Add me to the always tired on vacation list! Most days when I'm travelling I'm wanting to hit the hay by 8pm because I'm freaking exhausted! In Japan I started factoring in naps during the day on occasion so I could do normal people things like going for dinner.

I'd try to get outa the camping trip for sure, 3 people in a little tent with two sleeping bags doesn't sound fun anyway! Maybe tell 'em about the blistery sore feet & explain you wanna do something more chilled.

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 3:12 pm 
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maybe you can think of some fun camp things to cook and have fun cooking and listening to music or something while they are hiking. i know that's all i'd want to do if someone dragged me camping!

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 3:24 pm 
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joyfulgirl wrote:
Hugs, Moon! Hope it gets better. I'm feeling similarly this morning.

I'm not usually very active but I've been walking a lot more than usual while I'm in Seattle. The friends I'm staying with are SUPER active usually. Their apartment is at the bottom of a huge, steep hill and I get winded just walking up two blocks to where the buses stop (never mind to the top of the hill). Of course, they barely notice the incline. I don't mind doing it on my own; I want to get the exercise in. I just take my time and stop a lot. But it still wears me out. And when I come back to the apartment at the end of the day, my friend scoffs because I can't possibly be tired. I'm on vacation! Clearly, being tired can only come after working all day.

Now both of them have off the next couple of days so they wanted to get away for the weekend. So we're going camping in the mountains. They have only two sleeping bags, but it's fine because the tent is so small, we basically have to sleep stacked like pancakes. During the day, I'll be expected to happily keep myself occupied while they go bouldering or pant alongside them as we do an "easy" hike. Frankly, I'd rather just stay behind for the weekend but that's not really an option. This is supposed to be our chance to get some good solid time together, as opposed to the scattered hour or two after work, but I'm just kinda stressed about this trip and my remaining 12 days here. My feet are already ouchy and blistery from all the walking and my legs are sore from the hill climbing. But, no, I can't possibly be tired. I've been on vacation. Just flitting about Seattle without a care in the world.


Have you talked to them about it? As someone with a number of physical limitations that are definitely not obvious just from looking at me, I find that I really have to speak up and advocate for myself. Everyone's needs are different and you have to do what works for your body, not what seems to be working for someone else's. But nobody is going to know what you need unless you tell them, and most people won't think to ask. Yeah, it's awkward sometimes because asking means you find out if your friends are going to respond poorly to the situation, and for me I know that's usually something I don't want to learn about my friends. But, in my experience, that's still better than putting myself in a situation that isn't good for my body. (Also, I don't know if this is true for you but it's definitely true for me that my ability to behave "properly" in social situations diminishes dramatically if my physical needs are not being adequately met, so for me it's usually not even worth it to push my body to overdo it even if it's socially expected for me to do so!)

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 3:38 pm 
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I'd also talk to them, Joyfulgirl.

On the other side of the coin from CQ, I'm very active and don't have mobility or fitness limitations. In fact, I'd say I'm probably stronger and more capable of physical activity than my physical appearance might belie. Personally, I HATE it when people assume I'm not up for/able to do physical activities. I wonder if your friends are not wanting to be rude or weird by assuming you're not up for the same activities as they are? That might not be a great way for them to have come at it, but if they're like me, it's possible that that is the perspective they're coming from.

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 3:50 pm 
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Bring some novels, maybe some paper and pens, a deck of cards, and get some relaxing in! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 3:53 pm 
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I'm there with you and jojo on the tired on vacation thing. I move so much more when I'm on holiday because I'm more likely to walk somewhere (not knowing how to use public transport)* or be out and about all day instead of sitting in my office. That camping trip sounds like it would suck, frankly. I would try to get out of it. I mean, it's your holiday - you shouldn't have to do stuff that's gonna make you miserable.

*ETA - I know how to use public transport. I just mean sometimes it's difficult to figure out public transport in an unfamiliar area, like if you're used to a place that has flat bus fares and go where you pay based on the distance traveled.

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 6:52 pm 
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Thanks, everyone! It's good to know I'm not the only one here. I have tried to bring it up, but she tends to dismiss it or tell me to just deal with it. It's like telling your trainer at the gym that lifting weights is tough. Of course it's tough. Give me 10 more! But she's not my trainer and I don't want to spend all day every day sweaty and sore. She just doesn't (won't) understand why I wouldn't want to because after all, the only way to get to that point is to do it. Eventually I'll get used to it and then it won't hurt. ta da! Also, ever since going through med school, she's been getting more and more fat-negative so I get the feeling she tries to promote physical activity to me so I can lose weight.


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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 12:04 am 
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joyfulgirl wrote:
Thanks, everyone! It's good to know I'm not the only one here. I have tried to bring it up, but she tends to dismiss it or tell me to just deal with it. It's like telling your trainer at the gym that lifting weights is tough. Of course it's tough. Give me 10 more! But she's not my trainer and I don't want to spend all day every day sweaty and sore. She just doesn't (won't) understand why I wouldn't want to because after all, the only way to get to that point is to do it. Eventually I'll get used to it and then it won't hurt. ta da! Also, ever since going through med school, she's been getting more and more fat-negative so I get the feeling she tries to promote physical activity to me so I can lose weight.


Um, EW. Come back and visit me again instead. We can sit on my couch and eat popcorn and watch Buffy and do yarn stuff FOREVER.

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 12:42 am 
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Leaving my job has been a nightmare. After years of trying so hard to do my absolute best and make everything within my power perfect, I'm being attacked for small issues just because it's easy to scapegoat the person leaving. Of course it just solidifies my very wise resolve to move on, but I can't pretend I'm not still the most sensitive person I know and I feel like I'm just having my heart broken every last minute. Ooof, it hurts.


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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 4:08 am 
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Tigon wrote:
I wasn't claiming there were eras without strong women. I was claiming that there were times when brute strength was extremely important and the abuse of anyone weaker, whether that's raping, taking slaves, etc. was forced upon others. Writing a hero into that world who isn't physically imposing takes more creativity than simply making your hero someone like Conan.

I dunno, I guess that's a controversial idea that others disagree with. I thought that was the explanation for why so much fantasy is or appears to be sexist. You start with a world based on brute strength and lazy writers don't write their way out of it.


My personal view would be that so much fantasy emulates sexist (and racist, for that matter) paradigms because the writers live in a structurally sexist world, and the vast majority of them are cisgendered white men.

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 9:46 am 
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Update: I was able to get it down to just one night of camping instead of two. And they were able to borrow a larger tent from a coworker so there's at least that. But still, I have to miss the worldwide vegan bake sale and the only queer dance party that was happening while I was here.


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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 10:12 am 
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What about the sleeping bag situation?

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 11:09 am 
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joyfulgirl wrote:
Update: I was able to get it down to just one night of camping instead of two. And they were able to borrow a larger tent from a coworker so there's at least that. But still, I have to miss the worldwide vegan bake sale and the only queer dance party that was happening while I was here.

OK, if you'd said this before, I would definitely be on the side of just don't go at all, because that's some bullshiitake. Can they not go on the other of the 2 nights so they could accommodate this?

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 1:54 pm 
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rachell37 wrote:
joyfulgirl wrote:
Update: I was able to get it down to just one night of camping instead of two. And they were able to borrow a larger tent from a coworker so there's at least that. But still, I have to miss the worldwide vegan bake sale and the only queer dance party that was happening while I was here.

OK, if you'd said this before, I would definitely be on the side of just don't go at all, because that's some bullshiitake. Can they not go on the other of the 2 nights so they could accommodate this?

Yeah, if they were planning on two nights anyway, what does it matter if they go on the other night? I have to say, if I had friends who had come a long way to visit me, I would want to do activities that they wanted to do (mind you, I speak as someone who will always choose cakes over camping).

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 2:29 pm 
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If you ever get to camp with poopiebitch, you can get cakes and camping. Best.

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 4:07 pm 
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Imogen wrote:
Tigon wrote:
I wasn't claiming there were eras without strong women. I was claiming that there were times when brute strength was extremely important and the abuse of anyone weaker, whether that's raping, taking slaves, etc. was forced upon others. Writing a hero into that world who isn't physically imposing takes more creativity than simply making your hero someone like Conan.

I dunno, I guess that's a controversial idea that others disagree with. I thought that was the explanation for why so much fantasy is or appears to be sexist. You start with a world based on brute strength and lazy writers don't write their way out of it.


My personal view would be that so much fantasy emulates sexist (and racist, for that matter) paradigms because the writers live in a structurally sexist world, and the vast majority of them are cisgendered white men.


And those cisgendered white men feel disempowered somehow and write the power they wish they had into their work, particularly the sexual power over women and strength over men.


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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 4:50 pm 
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pandacookie wrote:
If you ever get to camp with poopiebitch, you can get cakes and camping. Best.

I would overcome my hatred of camping to eat cake with poopiebitch!

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 5:05 pm 
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Cakes and camping for everyone! And if lycophyte is there you can bet there will be pie iron sandwiches. Literally my favorite thing about camping is the food.

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 6:02 pm 
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And Quispie treats!

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 6:18 pm 
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Haha, YES! I forgot about the Quispie treats! (tweats?) And Biscoff s'mores.

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 Post subject: Re: Space to post things that do not go with any other topic
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 7:17 pm 
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Ok, summer trip this year is camping with PB. Pie iron sammiches sound like a great deal of YES.

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