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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:30 pm 
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i dont understand why people hate coyotes so much. i mean they are wild scavengers what do they expect?????

my husband occasionally has to go to a remote part of texas that is mainly oil fields and he says basically all the people do there is talk about shooting coyotoes for fun :-(

not nearly as bad but when we went to Yellowstone last year we pulled over to the side of the road when we saw a bunch of other people doing the same to see what everyone was looking at.
it was a coyote in the field!
i was psyched to see any animal basically. when we were done and walking back to our car an elderly couple stopped and got out of their car and asked us what everyone was looking at so i told them a coyote. they were like "pfft we have those at home!!!" turned around and stormed off and slammed their car door in my face and drove off.

hahahaha

we have coyotes here too but i still thought it was cool.

here he/she is doing Blue Steel!

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:58 pm 
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where my mom lives there are lots of coyotes (and packs of coyotes and semi-feral dogs) and people love to justify hating them because they eat pets, chickens, etc etc. I'm sure it does happen, but they are really amazing creatures who are super clever, take great care of their young, and their singing is eery and beautiful. it's one of the best things about visiting my mom's house in the summer, hearing the coyotes singing....

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:24 pm 
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Moon wrote:
My mom's post on Facebook saying "where do you get one of those down coats with coyote fur trim? They are so warm and coyotes kill small dogs and cats" and my sister piping up and saying how great they were and coyotes are killing livestock and attacking people in the suburbs in her area. And when I freaked on both of them and asked how she would like it if her dog got stuck in a leg hold trap for 5 days she said "all the hunters I know use guns. Have a good night".

I hate that I am related to people that I don't like. And my sister used to be a vegetarian.


So apparently my mom's post was being sarcastic, but my sister is insisting that she knows coyote hunters who sell to the fur trade. Even if that is the case, that is not how the majority of CG coyotes end up on coats. Body shots ruin pelts and coyotes are notoriously hard to hunt!

And she keeps ending her replies "have a nice night". Thanks for that.

But my mom has to be wasted because her private chat messages are making no sense and she's fallen on her old tangent of me wasting my life and intelligence, ah blah blah blah. But that's a non vegan complaint.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:01 pm 
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Heh, I didn't get sarcasm from that post. My parents pick and choose which animals they hate -- my dad has a personal vendetta against ravens and feral cats. It really drives me crazy that he is so affectionate to our own animals and most endangered wildlife and yet takes joy in hurting/killing other poor animals. Which is one reason I don't talk to him that much!

I grew up in San Diego and I never ever remember people hating on coyotes, except for the occasional local news alert that someone's dog running free had been caught by a coyote. I think because most of us were/are suburbanites and are starved for signs of wildlife?

Now that I'm out of my SoCal bubble I hear farmers and rural people just going crazy about coyotes all the time. Like, I heard on the radio that in N. California there's some annual coyote shoot (justification being that they "kill livestock"). This year people were really up in arms about it fearing for the lone wolf we've got roaming around the northern part of the state. And then I used to read the Daily Coyote blog and it was just so sad to hear how our fricking government takes an active and encouraging role in killing coyotes. Freaking animal agriculture has this entire country in a choke hold.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:05 pm 
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We had a coyote (or a coywolf) in my neighborhood a few years back and I only saw it once but it walked out of a trail near my house, stood there and waited for the car to go by and then just crossed the street. I don't know if I'm conveying what I'm trying to say very well but it looked so calm and like it was just an inhabitant in my neighborhood. Like it had adapted to us being there, the cars and the houses, etc.

My current pet peeve is that I can't look up pictures of wolves, coyote or coywolves on google images because they're littered with hunting pictures. I do not understand posing with the dead forking animal and lifting its head up for the camera.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:24 pm 
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Wow, do NOT look up images of coydogs. what the fizzle is wrong with people!

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:27 am 
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Killing coyotes is actually not the answer to getting rid of them - they come around populated areas because there's food, if you kill them another one is just going to come on down. The best way to get rid of coyotes is to scare them away AND make sure they don't have access to your trash or whatever they're eating, like pet food left outside or even birdseed. Coyotes can and will jump over a privacy fence if there's food on the other side of it, and if they find a pet in there then yes, the pet is probably going to get killed. Don't leave your pets out at night alone if coyotes are a problem in your area.

Coyotes are becoming less and less afraid of humans, but you can still use noise to scare them away.

And if all else fails, you can use wolf urine!

Coyotes started coming around my parents farm and we and everyone around us lost a couple of cats. Also one grabbed one of my mom's dogs and we think tried to mate with her (she was fixed and thankfully got away with just some surface wounds).

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:51 pm 
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mrsbadmouth wrote:
Killing coyotes is actually not the answer to getting rid of them - they come around populated areas because there's food, if you kill them another one is just going to come on down. The best way to get rid of coyotes is to scare them away AND make sure they don't have access to your trash or whatever they're eating, like pet food left outside or even birdseed. Coyotes can and will jump over a privacy fence if there's food on the other side of it, and if they find a pet in there then yes, the pet is probably going to get killed. Don't leave your pets out at night alone if coyotes are a problem in your area.

Coyotes are becoming less and less afraid of humans, but you can still use noise to scare them away.

And if all else fails, you can use wolf urine!

Coyotes started coming around my parents farm and we and everyone around us lost a couple of cats. Also one grabbed one of my mom's dogs and we think tried to mate with her (she was fixed and thankfully got away with just some surface wounds).


Doubtful that he tried to mate if she was fixed, very rarely do intact males have that urge around females that aren't in heat. Not impossible, but rare! Though I guess the scent of an in tact coyote or dog in the area could have gotten him in the loving way....

Anyway, yeah, that! I hate that whenever there's talk of a cull of any species, articles mention successful population control initiatives in other cities and I go, um, yeah, they don't succeed by culling! A contributor to the Toronto Star wrote about wanting Toronto to start a raccoon control program that would kill them. Dude, you live in the city, raccoons are something you deal with. He wrote this article because he empathized with a citizen who killed raccoons in his yard by beating them with a shovel, and he was fined by the city.

There's a lot of talk about coyotes in Toronto also lately, because there have been a couple that have become highly desensitized and were picking off small animals in a ravine area. Guys, you bought your stupidly expensive homes in that area so you could feel like you were with nature. Well, you got it! Stop complaining!

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:55 pm 
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the scent of coyotes wigs my reactive dog out beyond all repair.

we walk in a paved but not completed (ie only a few houses) cul-de-sac and from like January to March we cant bring him to the most remote part by the woods cause he just consistantly loses his shiz over nothing apparent. there is literally nothing there but pavement, dirt, rocks, and some trees. he goes absolutely ape shiitake bananas everytime we go back there.

we figured he either smells deer or coyote in the woods. i dont think deer would illicit that strong of a response so we guess coyotes. THEN i found out that is coyote mating season so i think just the scent of them makes him go bonkers.
i know they are around cause we saw one from afar while walking once. and again my dog lost it way more than he would have if it was a regular dog and we dont really have stray dogs in my area.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:56 pm 
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My dog goes completely ape over the smell of horses! So it COULD be deer. But I get you on that. Tungsten is fairly reactive and he definitely has issues with smell.

I still think I should get him in to scenting/tracking exercises but I don't know where I can do classes for that. Boo.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:01 pm 
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Moon wrote:

Doubtful that he tried to mate if she was fixed, very rarely do intact males have that urge around females that aren't in heat. Not impossible, but rare! Though I guess the scent of an in tact coyote or dog in the area could have gotten him in the loving way....



We just based that on her wounds, they were mostly on the side and she actually wasn't very big and if she had been grabbed by the neck, would've been dead.

But yeah, any animal is going to hang around if you give them a reason to. You need to remove the reason.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:26 pm 
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Moon wrote:
My dog goes completely ape over the smell of horses! So it COULD be deer. But I get you on that. Tungsten is fairly reactive and he definitely has issues with smell.

I still think I should get him in to scenting/tracking exercises but I don't know where I can do classes for that. Boo.



oooh my reactive dog doesnt like horses either but it's been the visual he's freaked out on.

not sure how many places we've been where he can just smell horses and not see them....

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:47 pm 
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Pet peeve: The menu at the Rhode Island Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals annual event

"The "Hearts & Paws" Pasta Dinner features a delicious main course of penne and meatballs with Italian bread, salad, coffee, and dessert. "

The denial is so strong to tolerate this kind of cognitive dissonance.

"We are dedicated to crusading for the rights and welfare of all animals, great and small, through legal, educational, legislative and investigative means"

Are you though, are you? How about you start by skipping the meatballs.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:31 pm 
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paprikapapaya wrote:
My sister-in-law (who is an ex-vegan, but is still vegetarian - but eats fish...) is really sensitive to dairy and gets really bad stomach aches from it, but is of the, "But mmmm cheese, I couldn't live without it!" camp. But she's also sensitive to soy, so she says, and she avoids that like the plague. Like, at restaurants, she will ask if there's any soy in something just to be sure because she doesn't want to be sick, but will then eat ice cream and feel sick but be fine with that.


My head just exploded.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:46 pm 
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erynne936 wrote:
Pet peeve: The menu at the Rhode Island Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals annual event

"The "Hearts & Paws" Pasta Dinner features a delicious main course of penne and meatballs with Italian bread, salad, coffee, and dessert. "

The denial is so strong to tolerate this kind of cognitive dissonance.

"We are dedicated to crusading for the rights and welfare of all animals, great and small, through legal, educational, legislative and investigative means"

Are you though, are you? How about you start by skipping the meatballs.

/rant


Yes, one of my favorite pitbull rescues is having a BBQ fundraiser. Though yours is worse, because of the whole "crusading for all animals" bit.

I know the guy who runs the rescue, and I've mentioned the disconnect, and his point is that they just won't make as much money if they don't serve meat. And I know he isn't wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:54 pm 
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I have a similar one, I was at a panel for the 100 year star ship program, it was super inspiring and amazing with panelists Dr. Jemison (first black woman astronaut), Dr. Jill Tarter (co-founder of SETI Institute) and LeVar Burton all talking about sustainability and how we need to change as a culture if we are going to move forward. LeVar talked about how important Gene Roddenberry's dream if IDIC (infinite diversity in infinite combinations) is and "respect for all creatures great and small"... all while wearing a leather jacket. How can you respect someone you are wearing? It made me so upset.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:50 pm 
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food people in general gripe: 'clean' eaters....omg - nothing from a can, nothing from a box...blah blah blah.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:55 pm 
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My pet peeve is that if this throat infection develops and I start sounding sick I will surely get the "you need meat/dairy."

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:36 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
I know the guy who runs the rescue, and I've mentioned the disconnect, and his point is that they just won't make as much money if they don't serve meat. And I know he isn't wrong.


Meat is quite a draw. It's not every day (and every meal) people get the chance to eat meat.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:47 pm 
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LazySmurf wrote:
I have a similar one, I was at a panel for the 100 year star ship program, it was super inspiring and amazing with panelists Dr. Jemison (first black woman astronaut), Dr. Jill Tarter (co-founder of SETI Institute) and LeVar Burton all talking about sustainability and how we need to change as a culture if we are going to move forward. LeVar talked about how important Gene Roddenberry's dream if IDIC (infinite diversity in infinite combinations) is and "respect for all creatures great and small"... all while wearing a leather jacket. How can you respect someone you are wearing? It made me so upset.


This really makes me disappointed in LeVar Burton! Why don't people THINK with their BRAINS about these things?!


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:04 pm 
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FootFace wrote:
Tofulish wrote:
I know the guy who runs the rescue, and I've mentioned the disconnect, and his point is that they just won't make as much money if they don't serve meat. And I know he isn't wrong.


Meat is quite a draw. It's not every day (and every meal) people get the chance to eat meat.
This is so true.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:45 pm 
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erynne936 wrote:
LazySmurf wrote:
I have a similar one, I was at a panel for the 100 year star ship program, it was super inspiring and amazing with panelists Dr. Jemison (first black woman astronaut), Dr. Jill Tarter (co-founder of SETI Institute) and LeVar Burton all talking about sustainability and how we need to change as a culture if we are going to move forward. LeVar talked about how important Gene Roddenberry's dream if IDIC (infinite diversity in infinite combinations) is and "respect for all creatures great and small"... all while wearing a leather jacket. How can you respect someone you are wearing? It made me so upset.


This really makes me disappointed in LeVar Burton! Why don't people THINK with their BRAINS about these things?!

And everything else be said was just so wonderful and I was right there with him the whole. But all creatures great and small? I almost called him on it but I was too star struck.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:50 pm 
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A bunch of the mothers in my parenting group want me to lead a talk on going vegan. Which would be great except one of the women is "veganish" (vegan except for fish) and she tends to get a bit over-enthusiastic about her pro-vegan spiel. I adore her passion and she is an amazing advocate for the animals. And maybe I'm just nervous for nothing. But if I have a shot at getting more people to go vegan, I really want to come across as reasonable and measured, so people can really hear the benefits and make choices for themselves. Not just go vegan for a few weeks because they feel bad and then revert.

I am probably overthinking this.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:23 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
A bunch of the mothers in my parenting group want me to lead a talk on going vegan. Which would be great except one of the women is "veganish" (vegan except for fish) and she tends to get a bit over-enthusiastic about her pro-vegan spiel. I adore her passion and she is an amazing advocate for the animals. And maybe I'm just nervous for nothing. But if I have a shot at getting more people to go vegan, I really want to come across as reasonable and measured, so people can really hear the benefits and make choices for themselves. Not just go vegan for a few weeks because they feel bad and then revert.

I am probably overthinking this.

Go for it! You'll do a great job. And if she's even remotely respectful she will take a seat in the audience and let you do your thing. It's not like she'll be arguing with you about the points you make.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:43 am 
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Tofulish wrote:
A bunch of the mothers in my parenting group want me to lead a talk on going vegan. Which would be great except one of the women is "veganish" (vegan except for fish) and she tends to get a bit over-enthusiastic about her pro-vegan spiel. I adore her passion and she is an amazing advocate for the animals. And maybe I'm just nervous for nothing. But if I have a shot at getting more people to go vegan, I really want to come across as reasonable and measured, so people can really hear the benefits and make choices for themselves. Not just go vegan for a few weeks because they feel bad and then revert.

I am probably overthinking this.


definitely go for it. i bet you'll do a great job. just be level headed and realistic. since it's a mom's group im sure they are all very familiar with Leela so they have awesome living proof of an awesome vegan kid.
you may not get them to all go vegan but you may get them to really think about their meat consumption and cut back or go veg or try new things.

i think you already have the right attitude about it as far as being reasonable and measured rather than like super over enthusiastic. i mean enthusiasm is good but sometimes it can make people feel overwhelmed.

good luck!

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