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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:25 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:43 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:52 pm 
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ameyfm wrote:
The other day one of my students was going on and on about how she hasn't been eating any grains or beans or root vegetables, or "even fruit" because it's all so heavy and she feels so great, and so on. I'm happy for her that she's feeling good, but is she really trying to convince me that strawberries are heavier than a big plate of meat?!! And I'm not super vocal about it, but all my students know I'm vegan, so it seemed extra insensitive. It was just so weird and annoying.
That's because back in caveman times strawberries were actually dinosaurs!

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:15 pm 
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kilgore trout wrote:
Alaina wrote:
I know a paleo who drinks 6 glasses of milk for breakfast every day. Cause I guess back in the day cavemen used to chase down a lactating cow every morning and guzzle from the udder like crazy?

Oh my god. The idea of drinking 6 glasses of milk is making me feel barfy.

It does sound nauseating!!!!

oh and I have no idea of dairy is paleo or not. According to this person it was. The whole paleo diet seems to be an excuse to justify bad eating habits while clapping yourself on the back for not eating cheese doodles.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:58 pm 
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Desdemona wrote:
ameyfm wrote:
The other day one of my students was going on and on about how she hasn't been eating any grains or beans or root vegetables, or "even fruit" because it's all so heavy and she feels so great, and so on. I'm happy for her that she's feeling good, but is she really trying to convince me that strawberries are heavier than a big plate of meat?!! And I'm not super vocal about it, but all my students know I'm vegan, so it seemed extra insensitive. It was just so weird and annoying.
That's because back in caveman times strawberries were actually dinosaurs!

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:54 pm 
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Vegan and Veg on Leonard Lopate last week.
They could have actually invited a vegan, instead of a vegetarian who insists that you can't make good baked goods without eggs. le sigh.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:14 pm 
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I tried to listen to that show but my Internet kept cutting out. I haven't heard NPR do a good job on the topic yet, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:57 pm 
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L. Lopate hates veganism so he won't ever have a good show about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:17 am 
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My omni friend got pregnant and is now using her pregnancy as an excuse to eat whatever she wants. Shouldn't pregnancy do the opposite to people? Like, I have to nourish this kid growing inside me, so I'm going to eat the healthiest I possibly can for nine months.

In just 24 hours, she posted a picture of her dinner (two heavily loaded BLT's on white bread, nothing else on the plate), and complained about her husband eating the last swiss cake roll in the house. I am concerned.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:51 am 
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creep wrote:
My omni friend got pregnant and is now using her pregnancy as an excuse to eat whatever she wants. Shouldn't pregnancy do the opposite to people? Like, I have to nourish this kid growing inside me, so I'm going to eat the healthiest I possibly can for nine months.

In just 24 hours, she posted a picture of her dinner (two heavily loaded BLT's on white bread, nothing else on the plate), and complained about her husband eating the last swiss cake roll in the house. I am concerned.



The correct response is "Congratulations! Let me know if there's anything I can do for you or the baby!"


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:59 am 
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creep wrote:
My omni friend got pregnant and is now using her pregnancy as an excuse to eat whatever she wants. Shouldn't pregnancy do the opposite to people? Like, I have to nourish this kid growing inside me, so I'm going to eat the healthiest I possibly can for nine months.

In just 24 hours, she posted a picture of her dinner (two heavily loaded BLT's on white bread, nothing else on the plate), and complained about her husband eating the last swiss cake roll in the house. I am concerned.

Well, I think she can eat whatever she wants whether she's pregnant or not. Why does this concern you?

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:12 am 
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I love you creep, and I think you're one of the kindest and funniest PPKers, so this is just from a space of explanation, not make wrong. I think the comment about being concerned about what a pregnant person eats is reflective of our society's tendency to police what pregnant women eat or drink etc, in a way that is quite demeaning, because we are allowing ourselves to substitute our judgement for hers as though she can't make the best decisions for herself and her fetus. But hey, its the pet peeves thread, so maybe its fine to vent here :)

As a vegan parent, I got lots of comments about how I wasn't eating enough protein and was probably putting my baby at risk by not eating meat. And especially in the first trimester, it doesn't really much matter what you eat (within reason) and sometimes its hard to eat some things you would normally find healthy because you have weird food aversions, and its more important for her just to eat what makes her feel cared for and happy.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:02 pm 
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annak wrote:
The correct response is "Congratulations! Let me know if there's anything I can do for you or the baby!"


I agree, which is why I posted in the pet peeves thread of a forum she doesn't frequent, and not on her Facebook wall.

Quarantined wrote:
Why does this concern you?


Because she's my friend, and I want her and her baby to be healthy. Of course it's inappropriate for me to say something to her, but I don't think it's inappropriate for me to be worried.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:24 pm 
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creep wrote:
annak wrote:
The correct response is "Congratulations! Let me know if there's anything I can do for you or the baby!"


I agree, which is why I posted in the pet peeves thread of a forum she doesn't frequent, and not on her Facebook wall.

Quarantined wrote:
Why does this concern you?


Because she's my friend, and I want her and her baby to be healthy. Of course it's inappropriate for me to say something to her, but I don't think it's inappropriate for me to be worried.
I absolutely hear that you're concerned, and I'm sure it comes from a place of kindness. That said, in light of Tofulish's post (which hit on much of what I would have said), I can't help wondering if it would be helpful to ask ourselves in situations like these if we'd be as bothered by someone eating two BLTs or whatever if they weren't pregnant. I think it's interesting and important to interrogate our gut reactions to things like this because they demonstrate how invidious our societal default of putting what we perceive as the fetus' interests ahead of the mother's. It's part and parcel of the attitude that relegates a fully formed, (presumably) rational adult to the secondary status of vessel/host for a developing potential person. This is precisely the sort of value judgment that leads to the supremely fucked-up, misogynist legislation we see being proposed to an increasing - and alarming - degree. I mean, as an individual I would hope the fetus' well-being would be important its parents, but as a culture I think we need to check ourselves when our initial reaction to what another mentally competent adult chooses to eat becomes, "What about the (as yet potential) baby?"

ETA: I want to make it clear that I am not directing this comment at you, creep; it's just that this topic got me thinking about how we think about women and their bodies - including our own, if we become pregnant - and that does or doesn't change because a blue line appears on a stick!

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:41 pm 
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creep wrote:
My omni friend got pregnant and is now using her pregnancy as an excuse to eat whatever she wants. Shouldn't pregnancy do the opposite to people? Like, I have to nourish this kid growing inside me, so I'm going to eat the healthiest I possibly can for nine months.

In just 24 hours, she posted a picture of her dinner (two heavily loaded BLT's on white bread, nothing else on the plate), and complained about her husband eating the last swiss cake roll in the house. I am concerned.



I wouldn't be too concerned. There's nothing especially unhealthy about eating two BLTs for dinner. I mean sure no one should eat bacon everyday, but it's got protein and vegetables and who doesn't like a swiss roll now and then? i think with pregnancy, as long as you're taking the right vitamins and eating enough calories, everything is going to be fine. Sure there's some research that you could predispose your baby to like certain things depending on what you eat, setting them up for a healthier life, but she's not hurting her baby by eating bacon and cake.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:44 pm 
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Welllllll, it's definitely been more than those two things I mentioned, but I totally get where you guys are coming from, and this is actually the reaction I expected. But yeah, I often had the "Oh c'monnnn!" reaction to the shiitake she ate before, but did become more concerned when she got pregnant, so I totally understand.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:27 pm 
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It might make me a jerk, but a pregnant woman smoking provokes a different response in me than a nonpregnant woman smoking does. Likewise a pregnant or nonpregnant woman drinking alcohol. Do you all not have those same (differing) responses?

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:38 pm 
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FootFace wrote:
It might make me a jerk, but a pregnant woman smoking provokes a different response in me than a nonpregnant woman smoking does. Likewise a pregnant or nonpregnant woman drinking alcohol. Do you all not have those same (differing) responses?
Absolutely! I just think it's interesting to think about them, and about the underlying societal/moral/cultural values that inform them. While I personally believe (and science supports this) that eating a crappy diet in pregnancy isn't as problematic as drinking, taking drugs, and/or smoking heavily, it's still disturbing when we hear about proposed legislation that values a fetus above its mother/incubator/host. I mean, I didn't even drink caffeinated tea during my own pregnancies (because I was A. paranoid, and B. a hippie), but that doesn't mean I get to give the hairy eyeball or - worse yet - unsolicited advice to someone who wants a cup of coffee or a bag of M&Ms. The whole mother < fetus thing just strikes me as very a slippery slope.

(But you are a jerk, obviously. Just not cuz of that. <3)

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:52 pm 
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Ugh smoking is tough. I've seen pregnant women smoking and its hard not to feel judgemental, because there is such a clear link between smoking and low birthweight and a host of other problems. Smoking is the number one cause of adverse outcomes http://www.babycenter.com/0_how-smoking ... 1405720.bc. I don't feed the same way about drinking (alcohol or coffee) or even smoking pot etc, because the evidence doesn't show the same kind of causal link between potential problems for the fetus.

But even then, I wouldn't say anything about it, because unless I absolutely knew that the person wasn't getting proper medical care etc, then I would assume she knew the risks. And I know people who have slowly cut down on smoking in their pregnancies.

I think there is a difference between feeling something (which hey, we all have judgements right?) and sharing them with the person. I have friends who are obese who have been made to feel horrible during their pregnancies (obesity is associated with certain increased risks http://www.babycenter.com/0_having-a-po ... 1504849.bc) and that sucks - I think we'd all agree that is a good example of a space where a kind person would absolutely keep their judgements to themselves. The person has a midwife, MD and other medical personnel assisting them, and hopefully should be getting the support they need.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:17 pm 
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Food politics are so fraught with so many issues. Sending hugs to all!

My peeve is my mother who continues to say she gets/supports my veganism but consistently doesn't. It's not a huge deal but for example last night, I was at Red Lentil with my family to celebrate my brother and his girlfriend who are going off to hike the Pacific Crest Trail tomorrow and I ordered the Ginger beer, assuming it'd be vegan. I happened to catch that it wasn't and gave it back to the server and attempting to note that it would've been nice to have it denoted as not vegan (though I suppose I should've asked) in a vegetarian/vegan restaurant and my mother tries to apologize for me being a 'hardcore vegan.' She's done this before and when I tried to politely say that I didn't appreciate it, got into a whole discussion about restaurant politics and how I could've handled it better or something from her perspective. I'm apparently a 'hard' customer. Except that I'm in a veggie/vegan restaurant, I feel like it's ok there especially for me to say 'Sorry, i can't have this, I thought this was vegan but it's not, maybe you could do something about that on the menu?'

/rant

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:02 pm 
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creep wrote:
My omni friend got pregnant and is now using her pregnancy as an excuse to eat whatever she wants. Shouldn't pregnancy do the opposite to people? Like, I have to nourish this kid growing inside me, so I'm going to eat the healthiest I possibly can for nine months.

In just 24 hours, she posted a picture of her dinner (two heavily loaded BLT's on white bread, nothing else on the plate), and complained about her husband eating the last swiss cake roll in the house. I am concerned.


I know other people have already said this, but I can't leave well enough alone. You have to figure out how to not think about this. It wasn't your business what your friend ate before she got pregnant and it's not your business now. If your friend is overweight, she is likely to experience significant fat shaming throughout her pregnancy (I certainly did, the only medical professional who didn't take about how I was too fat and eating too much and just be eating nothing but crepe was my dietician who said my diet was beyond great). Don't pile on, even in your own head. If you are her friend, be her friend. Radiate happiness for her and nothing else. Again, it is not your forking business what she eats, unless she asks you to cook some delicious vegan delicacy for her, in which case you should acquiesce with joy.

I'm happy I seem to be in a liberal bubble around the issue of drinking during pregnancy. I drank probably half a dozen celebratory times during my pregnancy (one small drink or beer each time, with the express blessing of my midwife) and got no shiitake about it. People were happy to serve me in bars even when I was super obviously pregnant. It was a relief to not have that as an added annoyance since practically anytime I ate something with sugar in it or not whole grain or whatever in public I got shiitake from perfect strangers about what I was and was not allowed to eat during my pregnancy.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:12 am 
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I have never had a baby and of course what I am about to say is in no way science or a recommendation. But a friend of mine has 3 boys, with not much of a gap in between them. For her first 2 pregnancies she gave up smoking, drinking and ate very healthily. For her third she was back smoking so she had the odd cigarette, drank a couple of glasses of wine in the evening and pretty much ate what she wanted. She swears that the reason her third baby was the healthiest happiest baby is because she had a happy pregnancy wheareas in the first 2 she felt deprivesd, didn't enjoy her pregnancies and felt like she was constantly having to do things dictated by others, and the babies/fetuses picked up on it. They don't have serious health issues but they're both asthmatic, cried constantly and had lots of baby/toddler issues compared to the other. I'm sure we can all see that there could be issues here that aren't directly to the actual food and drink, but I've just always found it interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:46 am 
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i got the "plant have lives too and they communicate with each other" bullshiitake yesterday. Ugh. Anyone who passed second grade science class knows that's not true!


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:59 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:00 am 
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Seriously.

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