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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 12:53 pm 
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Ugh, the Forks Over Knives FB page just linked to an article on their site by Dr. McDougall that basically criticizes people, including Angelina Jolie, who undergo double mastectomy in order to prevent breast cancer rather than just making lifestyle changes, saying pretty much "Well doctors would NEVER prescribe that a smoker have their lungs removed to prevent lung cancer, they'd tell them to stop smoking!" I'm paraphrasing, obviously, but... yeah.

So much head exploding. So much.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 12:56 pm 
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Yes, the Natural News and Dr Christina Northrup have run similar pieces. So much victim-blaming - I am saddened by the lack of empathy these people show in judging her.

When are we going to learn that it is never appropriate to judge what another woman does with her body?

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 1:04 pm 
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Freetahtah wrote:
Ugh, the Forks Over Knives FB page just linked to an article on their site by Dr. McDougall that basically criticizes people, including Angelina Jolie, who undergo double mastectomy in order to prevent breast cancer rather than just making lifestyle changes, saying pretty much "Well doctors would NEVER prescribe that a smoker have their lungs removed to prevent lung cancer, they'd tell them to stop smoking!" I'm paraphrasing, obviously, but... yeah.

So much head exploding. So much.

This I don't understand one bit. She has the gene that makes her more susceptible to getting breast cancer; wasn't it something like 85% likelihood?? No lifestyle choices can change your genetic makeup, and when you are up against an 85% probability I don't think abstaining from animal products is going to do a damn thing. You'd think an MD (and everybody else) would know that.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 1:06 pm 
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j-dub wrote:
couroupita wrote:
missmuffcake wrote:
the forking comments here for the most part just forking makes me say fork!

http://vegnews.com/articles/page.do?pageId=5760&catId=2

Hoo boy. Those people need to chillax. A nutter butter must've killed their dad or something. I wasn't aware that the definition of vegan is "doesn't eat white sugar."

OREOS ARE NOT VEGAN. OREOS HAVE BONE-CHAR SUGAR. STOP CALLING YOURSELF VEGAN.


The much needed laugh I got from this has seriously been the best part of my day so far.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 1:09 pm 
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I'm exhausted after reading the comments (yeah, why did I?). I had no idea that being vegan means every grocery trip is actually an intensive research excursion.

I bought a Tofurkey pizza, a mahalo bar, and produce. I might drop dead any day now, especially since I bought tofu.

(I'm sad that Wegmans apparently has no intention of getting any of the new Daiya or Greein items. The person who said they do the ordering for that section said she was unaware of the items and they aren't options for her.)

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Last edited by lavawitch on Thu May 16, 2013 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 1:10 pm 
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I wouldn't think McDougall would know that. Isn't his whole empire built on the idea the veganism is a magic way to be healthy? The whole no oil no salt no sugar jibber jabber? They aren't interested in facts, just scare tactics.
I really really hope the vegan=health fad passes quickly. There's a lot of dangerous and sick lies being promoted out there that don't do anything to help. It's bad news.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 1:14 pm 
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The vegan=health (except when it kills you because you need MEAT) fad will probably fade out in a year or two, but a new one will just take its place and most of the same people will herd on over there.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 1:20 pm 
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pandacookie wrote:
I wouldn't think McDougall would know that. Isn't his whole empire built on the idea the veganism is a magic way to be healthy? The whole no oil no salt no sugar jibber jabber? They aren't interested in facts, just scare tactics.
I really really hope the vegan=health fad passes quickly. There's a lot of dangerous and sick lies being promoted out there that don't do anything to help. It's bad news.

I guess so. It just seems like it's easier to make up woo when you're not going up against genetics.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 2:17 pm 
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The only vegan person I really know just recently gave it up, went back to eating eggs and chicken and fish.

He was GF/Vegan for the sole purpose of losing weight, his doctor put him on the diet.

He was going on and on about how much a vegan diet does not work. Everyone looked at me. I was like "hey, its not a DIET for me".

Now he is not doing fruit or sugar or something. I don't know....this sounds terrible but I am kind of glad he is not vegan anymore. He always complained about how awful it was and how he was starving all the time. blah.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 3:42 pm 
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pandacookie wrote:
I wouldn't think McDougall would know that. Isn't his whole empire built on the idea the veganism is a magic way to be healthy? The whole no oil no salt no sugar jibber jabber? They aren't interested in facts, just scare tactics.


And fat shaming. Dr. McD is my vegan pet peeve.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 5:11 pm 
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While saying "a vegan diet will cure or prevent all diseases" is clearly silly, I also think it's silly to suggest—as some people do—that there are no legitimate health benefits to adopting or maintaining a vegan diet.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 9:09 pm 
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FootFace wrote:
While saying "a vegan diet will cure or prevent all diseases" is clearly silly, I also think it's silly to suggest—as some people do—that there are no legitimate health benefits to adopting or maintaining a vegan diet.


Sure, but those health benefits are measured in averages rather than telling you what will happen to an individual who goes vegan. Going vegan will not necessarily lower your cholesterol, blood pressure, or weight, or prevent you from getting certain kinds of cancer, even though vegans on average are thinner, have lower cholesterol and blood pressure, and get fewer cases of certain cancers. For most people, it should work out that way. Which means it's good public policy to suggest everybody go as close to vegan as they can, but it is still bad activism to make any kinds of promises to individuals that their personal health will improve.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 11:06 pm 
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missmuffcake wrote:
the forking comments here for the most part just forking makes me say fork!

http://vegnews.com/articles/page.do?pageId=5760&catId=2

This is why I got nervous about posting the every day vegan junk food thread and the mainstream meals one. I was afraid that I would post something not-so-vegan and someone would flip out and an argument would ensue and my whole thread would be taken over. That's why there's a lot of food that I haven't posted in both of those threads that I eat myself.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 12:35 am 
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Ariann wrote:
FootFace wrote:
While saying "a vegan diet will cure or prevent all diseases" is clearly silly, I also think it's silly to suggest—as some people do—that there are no legitimate health benefits to adopting or maintaining a vegan diet.


Sure, but those health benefits are measured in averages rather than telling you what will happen to an individual who goes vegan. Going vegan will not necessarily lower your cholesterol, blood pressure, or weight, or prevent you from getting certain kinds of cancer,


Programs like the Cancer Project are aiming toward amassing some harder data on the correlation between diet and cancer. And, as a vegan who was diagnosed with cancer this hits home; however, as I remain vegan, in addition to some other factors, I reduce my risk of recurrance. I am in a long-term study that correlates body weight and exercise with reduced recurrance of breast cancer; being overweight is a risk factor for recurrance, and after breast cancer surgery many women do gain weight from the adjuvant therapies and also are exercise averse due to pain from surgery and treatments. I have a nutritionist assigned as part of the study who applauds my veganism and is thrilled to have me in the study; the aim is to make this a standard of care.

More studies like this need to be done. The anecdotal data is there, now we turn it into hard science.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 2:07 am 
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Freetahtah wrote:
Ugh, the Forks Over Knives FB page just linked to an article on their site by Dr. McDougall that basically criticizes people, including Angelina Jolie, who undergo double mastectomy in order to prevent breast cancer rather than just making lifestyle changes, saying pretty much "Well doctors would NEVER prescribe that a smoker have their lungs removed to prevent lung cancer, they'd tell them to stop smoking!" I'm paraphrasing, obviously, but... yeah.

So much head exploding. So much.


Someone on my fb posted it, but I didn't read it. He's been linking to lots of articles like that since the Angelina Jolie story broke. It hurts my brain. And especially because we have a mutual (long-time) vegan friend who is dealing with breast cancer right now. If I was her, I'd rip him a new one.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 4:10 am 
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Quote:
Ugh, the Forks Over Knives FB page just linked to an article on their site by Dr. McDougall that basically criticizes people, including Angelina Jolie, who undergo double mastectomy in order to prevent breast cancer rather than just making lifestyle changes, saying pretty much "Well doctors would NEVER prescribe that a smoker have their lungs removed to prevent lung cancer, they'd tell them to stop smoking!" I'm paraphrasing, obviously, but... yeah.

So much head exploding. So much.


That makes me so angry. I mean, I read a few books on cancer, and wasn't nutrition like... 35% cause of cancer? What about the other 65%? I mean, I want to get these 35%(or whatever) right, but Im pretty sure I cant change my genes or environmental influences. And this coming from a forkin doctor!

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 7:54 am 
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lavawitch wrote:

(I'm sad that Wegmans apparently has no intention of getting any of the new Daiya or Greein items. The person who said they do the ordering for that section said she was unaware of the items and they aren't options for her.)


Hey, I actually happened to be on a bus trip with the head of Nature's Marketplace department at the corporate level yesterday. I asked about the daiya slices, and he said they are investigating them as well as a few other altcheeses. I didn't know to ask about the Greein items, But we have department email so i can email him next week and ask now.
Our annual spring vendor demo show is next week, so i will give you a heads up what we're going to be getting in the next few months after next thursday.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 8:12 am 
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gardein! Stupid ipad. I also desperately want Amy's meatballs.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 9:10 am 
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I hear the "don't eat much meat" as a bonding attempt all the time, and usually just nod, but one time last year I must have been in a really foul mood or something, because I'd never do this, but someone said and I replied "Oh that's interesting. How do you decide which animals you're going to kill then?". Needless to say, little bonding was done.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 9:51 am 
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Mr. Shankly wrote:
That's why there's a lot of food that I haven't posted in both of those threads that I eat myself.




If something contained bee products or milk - I would be like 'it's not vegan', then I would move on for the day. Some of those comments and the length of them were just ridiculous.

The vegan bonding thing...Well, I was once in a local upscale store and talking to the baker about vegan stuff (they have/had a few vegan options) and when I would go in he would always talk to me about food and stuff. He once was like "omg, you need to see this dish I made with everything from the store". So I thought it would be vegan or something - it was like some gross meat dish...I was like "okkkkkkaaaaayyyy"...Like I want to see that?

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 10:46 am 
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Efcliz wrote:
I hear the "don't eat much meat" as a bonding attempt all the time, and usually just nod, but one time last year I must have been in a really foul mood or something, because I'd never do this, but someone said and I replied "Oh that's interesting. How do you decide which animals you're going to kill then?". Needless to say, little bonding was done.


Good for you.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 11:15 am 
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Tofulish wrote:
I thought this was a fascinating blog by a small scale dairy farmer - he has only 200 cows and knows them by name and thinks he is a really God-fearing and kind man who cares about the animals. Reading it, and many of his misconceptions made me realize how dairy farmers think a little more. http://orangepatchdairy.blogspot.com/20 ... their.html


Ughh. I mean, this is still WAYYYYY better than traditional dairy farming, and for that i am happy. But it's pretty gross that he can sugar coat his own beliefs like that... and that's what they really believe. I have personally witnessed mommy goats who have had their kids taken away from them. The kids didn't seem too phased, but the mommy goats screamed like i have never heard any creature, human or non-human, scream before. That was more than enough proof that it is just plain cruel to take away a momma's baby.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 11:23 am 
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Freetahtah wrote:
Ugh, the Forks Over Knives FB page just linked to an article on their site by Dr. McDougall that basically criticizes people, including Angelina Jolie, who undergo double mastectomy in order to prevent breast cancer rather than just making lifestyle changes, saying pretty much "Well doctors would NEVER prescribe that a smoker have their lungs removed to prevent lung cancer, they'd tell them to stop smoking!" I'm paraphrasing, obviously, but... yeah.

So much head exploding. So much.


This is kinda related: http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db ... =511#comic

I think it's crazy that people (doctors!) don't seem to realize that cancer and other diseases are caused by many different factors. There isn't just one thing that causes it. That's why some people can smoke their whole life and never get lung cancer, and other people who have never smoked die from lung cancer. Also, criticizing someone's choice to get their breasts removed to prevent cancer is just forked up.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 1:47 pm 
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I think my pet peeve is "soy is bad for you", because all soy is not bad for you. Soy that has been genetically modified, sprayed with chemicals, and then processed in even more chemicals, like hexane, is bad for you. I buy organic tofu, and make sure any products that contain soy are organic as well, so I can reduce my expose to those chemicals. But when you point this out to people it is like way over their heads.
And I found a small piece of chicken in my salad, and lost my appetite.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 2:19 pm 
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I went for a "wellness check" as my work calls it. Went to a new doctor because I don't have a general one, and she didn't give me attitude about a vegan diet but was all "oh for sure we'll want to test for anemia then." I bit my tongue, and yes, I realize some vegans/vegetarians may subsist solely on french fries and chips (just like omni's) and yes some people's iron levels might be lower than others' for a variety of reasons, but I thought it was sad that a medical professional could really be so clueless about nutrition by assuming one must have meat in order to avoid anemia. I haven't got my results back but I would bet that my iron levels are awesome.


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