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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:01 pm 
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njak wrote:
Why do my perfectly vegan food choices annoy anyone else and, according to some people, somehow make me less vegan?



I guess it depends on how you say it...Some people come off as judgmental pricks about it. I do not mind Luna Bars and other stuff that comes in plastic. I also enjoy a good plum and some oven roasted almonds. People who are on the 'clean eating' bandwagon see it as a all or nothing...

Oh and I am not even going to get into the economic or social politics of the topic.

I do not use a microwave and feel bad if I point that out to people who try to recommend microwaved meals. I just relied to heavily on a microwave for a long time and had to cut the cord!

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:16 pm 
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Yup, it's the tone. No one likes judgey, sanctimonious eaters, vegan, health conscious or otherwise. I'd never ask why you declined an Oreo either. That seems rude.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:44 pm 
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missmuffcake wrote:
njak wrote:
Why do my perfectly vegan food choices annoy anyone else and, according to some people, somehow make me less vegan?



I guess it depends on how you say it...Some people come off as judgmental pricks about it. I do not mind Luna Bars and other stuff that comes in plastic. I also enjoy a good plum and some oven roasted almonds. People who are on the 'clean eating' bandwagon see it as a all or nothing...

Oh and I am not even going to get into the economic or social politics of the topic.

I do not use a microwave and feel bad if I point that out to people who try to recommend microwaved meals. I just relied to heavily on a microwave for a long time and had to cut the cord!


It is a shame that the recent users of 'clean eating' corrupted the term. The latest version of clean eating I've heard people use means no grains/Paleo style.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:00 pm 
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missmuffcake wrote:
njak wrote:
Why do my perfectly vegan food choices annoy anyone else and, according to some people, somehow make me less vegan?



I guess it depends on how you say it...Some people come off as judgmental pricks about it. I do not mind Luna Bars and other stuff that comes in plastic. I also enjoy a good plum and some oven roasted almonds. People who are on the 'clean eating' bandwagon see it as a all or nothing...

Oh and I am not even going to get into the economic or social politics of the topic.

I do not use a microwave and feel bad if I point that out to people who try to recommend microwaved meals. I just relied to heavily on a microwave for a long time and had to cut the cord!


I haven't actually come across any real life people who think my hooray!-for-processed-food-diet is non-vegan (at least they don't say it to my face!), but it's a pet peeve of mine that vegan gatherings are so often layered with other food politics and "healthy" eating stuff. I belong to a vegan families group that is often trying to arrange playdates around "healthy" diet issues - like let's have a fruitarian playdate! let's have a raw playdate! All that is awesome, I guess, sort of, but I joined this group so when we go to playdates there will only be VEGAN snacks there. I am so not in the mood for having to prep special extra super virtuous snacks for a playdate.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:24 pm 
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I had an unsettling conversation with a friend today. He was telling me about how ever since he and his wife had a kid, they have a hard time cooking and eating healthy meals. They just don't have time. Which then led to how impossible it was for them to remain vegetarian after his wife got pregnant. He started by saying that he was already eating chicken because he kept having 'chicken dreams' and his body was just missing something that apparently only chicken could cure. (No comment from me yet...) But that his wife was hardcore vegetarian, and then got pregnant and was all, 'I need Dairy Queen cheeseburgers!' and nothing else would do. I said I couldn't see that happening to me, but I know that hormones do crazy things to you when you're pregnant. But that I would try my hardest to do a vegan alternative for any wacky cravings I had, because my veganism is so important to me, in an ethical sense. I wasn't trying to be a dick, just pointing out how I felt about it. But he kept talking about how pregnancy makes you crazy (which I just love hearing from a dude anyway) and you can't control your cravings at all. But then, the kicker: he said, 'And when the baby comes, that's the most important thing, everything changes, and you just do what you have to to make your kid healthy and survive in the process.' As if...if I decided to remain vegan after I had a kid, and make it a priority to cook vegan meals, because that's important to me, I'd be putting my child second to that. So I said that it was such a huge thing for me, really the only thing that I am incredibly passionate about, that I even really care about, and he kept saying that I didn't know because I don't have kids (true), and that everything changes. I mean, I know plenty of vegan mamas on here that remained vegan through their pregnancies and are raising their kids vegan and even *gasp* cook meals! So then I took a different tack, asking if he thought that devout Jews that kept kosher just caved into their cravings and started eating non-kosher foods during pregnancy and after their babies were born, because cravings are impossible to resist, and convenience, yo? And he immediately said, 'I'm not saying you're going to start eating meat if you get pregnant, and you're being really defensive.' I just said I was just thinking it over and offering a different perspective (I never let my voice escalate or anything, so I'm not sure why he thought I was being defensive). The conversation ended. I think it was just an uncomfortable situation where I was defending my ethics and saying that I wouldn't compromise them for pregnancy or a kid, and he felt like I was attacking the fact that they were veg and then weren't because they had a kid, which probably made it seem like I was saying they didn't have any willpower or morals (none of which I insinuated in the least).

He just really triggered my angry vegan today.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:30 pm 
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Yeah, you can't question people on stuff like that. You just gotta back away.

My husband's cousin stopped being vegetarian during her pregnancy THIRTEEN YEARS AGO and never went back. She said it was because she needed to get better nutrition/more protein/whatever bullshiitake during her pregnancy. I keep itching to ask her what's been going on the past thirteen years, but I refrain. The shiitake kind of hit the fan when she gave me a lecture about eating a pixie stick (at my BIL's wedding, for some reason, there were pixie sticks) while pregnancy and I gave her a pretty harsh lecture about inappropriate comments to make to pregnant women.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:58 pm 
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ap: it sounds like he was looking for validation or forgiveness or something, you know? I probably would have been honest with him, too though.

Am I wrong in thinking that some people's issue with processed/unprocessed is more of a linguistic one?

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:16 pm 
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You guys are right. I didn't get any sleep last night and was feeling moody. I still felt like he was just saying that my veganism was some thing that could come and go, though, which is what annoyed me the most. So I guess my real peeve is people thinking veganism is just some phase that you get over when life gets complicated.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:26 pm 
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Hahaha. I strongly think that you can figure out what people are like by what they assume about others. He probably thought you were being defensive because HE was feeling defensive. Seems like non-veg people are allowed to defend their arguments, but if vegans do then they're being pushy, defensive, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:05 pm 
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Jigglypuff wrote:
Hahaha. I strongly think that you can figure out what people are like by what they assume about others. He probably thought you were being defensive because HE was feeling defensive. Seems like non-veg people are allowed to defend their arguments, but if vegans do then they're being pushy, defensive, etc.


Yep. This ^

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:02 pm 
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Look, cooking rice and vegetables and tofu is just so much more time-consuming than cooking rice, vegetables, and chicken. It's no wonder people give up that hassle when they have a kid. And if you're really pressed for time and just want to microwave something, well, good luck finding vegan or vegetarian stuff, right?

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:03 pm 
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Mrs. Face had a vegan pregnancy. Our son has always been vegan.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:55 pm 
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linanil wrote:
njak wrote:
missmuffcake wrote:
'processed food' people....you know 'oh i don't eat _processed food_'....shut up.


I don't understand why this is such a common vegan pet peeve. It's why I don't bother posting on vegan forums very often and avoid vegan gatherings. I don't eat processed foods. If others do, hey, that's their choice. Although, it does bother me that so many of those processed foods are produced by branches of corporations that spend and make millions of dollars at the expense of animals, I can choose to not support them and I won't hold it against someone who makes a different decision or sees this issue differently than I do. It still catches me by surprise every time I meet vegans who get all defensive and offended when I politely decline Oreos or whichever version of Doritos is "vegan". They never fail to ask why I don't want any and when I say I just don't eat processed food, they get all pissy and act like I'm the one being judgmental. Why do my perfectly vegan food choices annoy anyone else and, according to some people, somehow make me less vegan?


Yeah except it isn't politely refusing. There are some out there that say you aren't vegan if you eat any processed foods and they are very adamant about their position. They are growing in numbers as well so you seem to see a lot more vocal prejudice against vegans that eat anything that came in a package or bottle.

Although I concentrate in a whole foods diet, even at my strictest, I'd eat things like olive oil and peanut butter but those things are processed as well. If someone doesn't eat processed foods, go them but that is just one diet.


The issue, I think, is the quotes you put around "vegan." That isn't really politely refusing--it's making a judgement as to who/what is vegan enough. There has been a great deal of that going around lately and it's divisive. People can enjoy not eating Oreos without telling people who do that they aren't vegan enough.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:26 pm 
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ndpittman wrote:
ap: it sounds like he was looking for validation or forgiveness or something, you know? I probably would have been honest with him, too though.

Yeah, this. Which is my big vegan pet peeve. I have friends who will go on about the ice cream from a local agricultural school which treats its cows well or eggs from a local farm and how much they love those things and how they feel a lot better about eating them than eating supermarket ice cream/eggs. Like, in one-on-one conversation with me. And I'm not really sure what to say to that. I mean I suppose I'm glad they're avoiding factory farms some of the time, but I'm vegan for a reason.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:44 pm 
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I went to a potluck recently where the host read the ingredients on my bag of Sweet Chili Doritos out loud with disgust. I made a whole foods dish as well but wanted to try the chips BC they are vegan without eating the whole bag. It was uncomfortable and judgemental.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:59 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
I went to a potluck recently where the host read the ingredients on my bag of Sweet Chili Doritos out loud with disgust. I made a whole foods dish as well but wanted to try the chips BC they are vegan without eating the whole bag. It was uncomfortable and judgemental.


Whoa.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:21 am 
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lavawitch wrote:

The issue, I think, is the quotes you put around "vegan." That isn't really politely refusing--it's making a judgement as to who/what is vegan enough. There has been a great deal of that going around lately and it's divisive. People can enjoy not eating Oreos without telling people who do that they aren't vegan enough.


Yeah, this. E.g. Cornelie posted a great post on her blog yesterday about how many awesome products available in the Dutch supermarkets are vegan, and how being vegan doesn't have to be difficult or expensive. One of the products in the picture she posted to accompany the blog was Heinz Hot Ketchup, and one of the first comments she got on FB was about how the Heinz was full of artificial colors and flavors and tastes like a chemical factory bla bla bla....

I mean, seriously. Cornelie is doing an amazing job with her blog of letting people know how accessible eating vegan can be, and making it easier for beginning vegans, and this guy is acting like she's trying to poison people.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:31 am 
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Tofulish wrote:
I went to a potluck recently where the host read the ingredients on my bag of Sweet Chili Doritos out loud with disgust. I made a whole foods dish as well but wanted to try the chips BC they are vegan without eating the whole bag. It was uncomfortable and judgemental.

I have eaten those for dinner on more than one occasion. Haters gonna hate!

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:06 am 
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couroupita wrote:
Yup, it's the tone. No one likes judgey, sanctimonious eaters, vegan, health conscious or otherwise. I'd never ask why you declined an Oreo either. That seems rude.


This. If someone refuses something I don't ask why. This seems like something you would ask someone who refused AND said I don't eat (whatever is on offer.)

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:41 am 
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Tofulish wrote:
I went to a potluck recently where the host read the ingredients on my bag of Sweet Chili Doritos out loud with disgust. I made a whole foods dish as well but wanted to try the chips BC they are vegan without eating the whole bag. It was uncomfortable and judgemental.


Holy shiitake!! I can't imagine doing this to a person ever. What a dickbag.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:45 am 
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I mentioned in a couple of threads that I didn't eat processed food/ate "clean" because it was pertinent to my question/comment. I wasn't saying I'm better than anyone.

then in another post, I was talking about processed food, and thought I had to put in a disclaimer there that I didn't eat it *myself* because I would seem like a liar from my previous posts (am I making any sense?).

I think it's awesome that there are so many options out there, processed and not. Just because I said I don't usually ever eat them doesn't mean I'm judging anyone else for it. Enjoy your Tofurkey pizza!


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:44 am 
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people who tell others to go vegan for health (in a judgmental way) and they are not really healthy themselves. i have said it before and will say it again veganisim is not some miracle - infomercial type - cure all.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:57 am 
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tofucheez wrote:
I mentioned in a couple of threads that I didn't eat processed food/ate "clean" because it was pertinent to my question/comment. I wasn't saying I'm better than anyone.

then in another post, I was talking about processed food, and thought I had to put in a disclaimer there that I didn't eat it *myself* because I would seem like a liar from my previous posts (am I making any sense?).

I think it's awesome that there are so many options out there, processed and not. Just because I said I don't usually ever eat them doesn't mean I'm judging anyone else for it. Enjoy your Tofurkey pizza!


This! Except the reverse, because I am enjoying the Tofurky pizza.

I think part of the problem is the moralistic tones people put on food of it being 'good' and 'bad,' I mean, you're bound to end up with hurt feelings.

It's just food. Vegan food doesn't hurt animals.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:00 am 
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ndpittman wrote:
I think part of the problem is the moralistic tones people put on food of it being 'good' and 'bad,' I mean, you're bound to end up with hurt feelings.


I think in general the problem is that health is being equated with "good" in a moralistic sense everywhere now. We are all told constantly that we must do everything we can to be "healthy" in all aspects of our lives, and there is an implication that if you do not then you are "bad".

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:02 am 
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Exactly!

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